EPTHopefully, Team ranked will be different, or they change the ranking system a bit. To give more progression tough is why they went with the HS way and not the sc2, where you can spend months on a league withouth really achiving anything, going up on the ranks in your league is only entertaining for so long until you feel like you're stuck.
Heroes Large General Thread - Page 267
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Hopefully, Team ranked will be different, or they change the ranking system a bit. To give more progression tough is why they went with the HS way and not the sc2, where you can spend months on a league withouth really achiving anything, going up on the ranks in your league is only entertaining for so long until you feel like you're stuck. | ||
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VeryAverage
United States424 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
It's really not any different from hotslogs. If you maintain a 50%+ winrate there, you will eventually climb in ranks, too. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
But even with that i don't like this rank a lot. | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
I also think it's obviously not a finished product and that it's mainly being put out there to test the drafting and rank systems. Also, the small player base is not helping the situation with the mixed matching of group sizes. But tbh, I think hotslogs is also pretty broad. I feel most players who have been masters or diamond at some point stop caring about their MMR anyways. Being a diamond+ player is a very broad categorization. | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
On January 19 2015 01:39 xDaunt wrote: Thrall only has a little bit of trouble chasing people down in the early game. By the mid game, he can spam windfury, and pretty much anyone without a dash/blink on a low cool down is toast. And you are kidding yourself if you don't think he's grossly overpowered. There are some balance issues that are complex and hard to resolve but they are related to other things. I wouldn't say he's grossly overpowered because within a team, I don't think he's particularly better than a Brightwing, Tychus, Valla, or a well played Stitches. First off, the point about chase is a dumb one. He's a melee assassin that doesn't have upfront burst. If you look at the other "melee" assassins, what do they have? Illidan has sweeping strikes, dive, and meta and can stick for days. Kerrigan doesn't have much chase but the trade off is you are 100% dead before you can run if you get caught by the combo into rewinded combo. Zeratul has double blink which you ideally don't want to use to chase and VP which you ideally don't want to use to stop a runner but if your team can play around your VP CD, you are fine. My point is that they all have options. Singling out WF is unreasonable. Also, from a team play perspective, Thrall is a hero you can play and pick around. He's a hero that gets wrecked by CC and good teams. I've had games were Brightwings would polymorph me the second they hear the WF whirling sound. No WF, no passive healing, no mana return, no faster CDs = useless Thrall. Muradins with their stun and avatar form are also the bane of your existence as a Thrall with how they constantly interrupt your AA swings. Stitches gorging you as you dive to remove you from the fight and cancel out your WF is also incredibly frustrating. Basically any type of CC owns Thrall and it's hard to play around CC because you are a melee assassin. This is not surprising because CC also wrecks other melee assassins, too. And, talent picking around Thrall is also becoming more and more common. Early last week I would still see Vallas that picked Strafe against Thrall or Nazeebos that would pop spirit before Sundering was used. Now either are much less common. Thrall is imbalanced but for other reasons. His sustain is way too good. Like I previously said, level 20 WF combo gives you 1.6 damage, 1.6k self healing, 2.5s CD reduction, and mana return. You can basically have perma WF if you are continually landing the combo. As a result, you can solo bruiser camps and lose no health or mana. You can solo bosses and lose no health or mana. You can face tank towers, forts, keeps, and the core and lose no health or mana. You can do all that not as a specialist but as a melee assassin that is still relevant in team fights. That is the broken part of Thrall. The other broken part of Thrall comes from him being one of the only hard carries in the game. In the early game, he is garbage. Past level 16, he is a god. The problem with Thrall is without getting the upfront burst heal from his WF synergy with his passive, he is really squishy and easy to burn down in a coordinated burst. So, if you nerf his passive and his sustain, he is really going to struggle in big engagements. | ||
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TT1
Canada10035 Posts
https://www.dropbox.com/s/68x3z4ksc9vwoiu/SICK GAME LOL TEMPLE.StormReplay?dl=0 | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 19 2015 12:40 Brian333 wrote: There are some balance issues that are complex and hard to resolve but they are related to other things. I wouldn't say he's grossly overpowered because within a team, I don't think he's particularly better than a Brightwing, Tychus, Valla, or a well played Stitches. First off, the point about chase is a dumb one. He's a melee assassin that doesn't have upfront burst. If you look at the other "melee" assassins, what do they have? Illidan has sweeping strikes, dive, and meta and can stick for days. Kerrigan doesn't have much chase but the trade off is you are 100% dead before you can run if you get caught by the combo into rewinded combo. Zeratul has double blink which you ideally don't want to use to chase and VP which you ideally don't want to use to stop a runner but if your team can play around your VP CD, you are fine. My point is that they all have options. Singling out WF is unreasonable. Also, from a team play perspective, Thrall is a hero you can play and pick around. He's a hero that gets wrecked by CC and good teams. I've had games were Brightwings would polymorph me the second they hear the WF whirling sound. No WF, no passive healing, no mana return, no faster CDs = useless Thrall. Muradins with their stun and avatar form are also the bane of your existence as a Thrall with how they constantly interrupt your AA swings. Stitches gorging you as you dive to remove you from the fight and cancel out your WF is also incredibly frustrating. Basically any type of CC owns Thrall and it's hard to play around CC because you are a melee assassin. This is not surprising because CC also wrecks other melee assassins, too. And, talent picking around Thrall is also becoming more and more common. Early last week I would still see Vallas that picked Strafe against Thrall or Nazeebos that would pop spirit before Sundering was used. Now either are much less common. Thrall is imbalanced but for other reasons. His sustain is way too good. Like I previously said, level 20 WF combo gives you 1.6 damage, 1.6k self healing, 2.5s CD reduction, and mana return. You can basically have perma WF if you are continually landing the combo. As a result, you can solo bruiser camps and lose no health or mana. You can solo bosses and lose no health or mana. You can face tank towers, forts, keeps, and the core and lose no health or mana. You can do all that not as a specialist but as a melee assassin that is still relevant in team fights. That is the broken part of Thrall. The other broken part of Thrall comes from him being one of the only hard carries in the game. In the early game, he is garbage. Past level 16, he is a god. The problem with Thrall is without getting the upfront burst heal from his WF synergy with his passive, he is really squishy and easy to burn down in a coordinated burst. So, if you nerf his passive and his sustain, he is really going to struggle in big engagements. There's nothing complicated about why Thrall is broken, and I'm not sure why you're singling out my comment about his ability to chase when I've covered him at length elsewhere. The bottom line, as you point out, is that he can do everything as a consequence of having incredibly high damage and incredibly high sustain, as well as all sorts of other utility in his kit. Obviously something has to be taken away. It probably will be his sustain. But then again, Blizzard has always been retarded when it comes to their beloved shamans, so who knows. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Then the game itself. Playmaking ability feels very low, no matter what hero I play as(Not that I have many yet). Even kills seem to have very low impact. It feels like the point of the game is to 5 man group and either ram your head against the opposing team "teamfight" or go do an objective that always seems to spawn at set intervals and that always seem to spawn some golem thingy. It's as if the entire game is just teamfight teamfight teamfight 5man doto all over the place. It doesn't really matter if I feed hard or not because... Well, I'll always be as powerful as my team. For example, if 2 enemies do a map objective and 2 of my teammates decide to go farm for whatever reason, I can't do anything. I'm completely reliant on teammates to not be braindead. if I do amazing and go 20-0 with the rest of my team being terrible, 80% of my experience is going to a waste and I can't really make a difference as our team will likely be behind anyway. I haven't yet played a match where I'm actually having fun. Nothing I do has any impact, it feels and the entire match is like a neverending teamfight... And if I wanted that, I'd actually just play an arena game. The lanes in this game, for example, just seem to not serve any real purpose and you should instead just be gaining exp over time. Another thing I'd like to mention is how there's very little knowledge actually required / a complete lack of skill. The decisionmaking of whether to engage literally comes down to "Is my team higher level?" and "What are our heroes?". There's no items to consider, there's no summoner spells to consider, there's no level differences and potential enemy exp bar position to consider(You can see enemy exp bar). As I said, meh meh all over the place. Might as well finally add how incredibly long it takes to farm for a hero. On average 25 gold per match, 10k gold cost for a hero - 400 games. Great. Overall I find it pretty silly that when I want a new hero the mindset I'm going into a game with is "Let me try to make my team lose as fast as possible so that I get gold the fastest". Combined with the rest of these issues, yeaaahhh... Oh I can actually discuss HotS business model? I'm not sure what the term for this is, but it seems like they frontload the gold very hard so that you'd feel "invested" in the game and so that it'd feel fun early and you'd make friends and such, then they completely cut off the gold flow so you either need to grind for forever or use real money. Feels rather scummy to me. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
On January 19 2015 13:36 xDaunt wrote: There's nothing complicated about why Thrall is broken, and I'm not sure why you're singling out my comment about his ability to chase when I've covered him at length elsewhere. The bottom line, as you point out, is that he can do everything as a consequence of having incredibly high damage and incredibly high sustain, as well as all sorts of other utility in his kit. Obviously something has to be taken away. It probably will be his sustain. But then again, Blizzard has always been retarded when it comes to their beloved shamans, so who knows. But like I mentioned, you take away his sustain and he's dead weight in team fights. It's like removing first aid, stoneskin, and evasion from Illidan. His passive is relatively balanced in team fights it's just broken outside of them. In a team fight, it means he won't go in and immediately die. It means even if you are low you can disengage, throw a few CLs to heal a bit / wait for your healer and then re-engage. It feels pretty balanced. In PvE, 1v1, and small skirmishes it means nobody is going to beat you. It feels broken. Those are the two extremes. That is the complexity of the issue. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On January 19 2015 14:22 goswser wrote: The ranking system in this game is just so retarded it demotivated me to play completely. Who cares? Game is fun. I grinded the shit out of LoL ladder to get 2 accounts to plat one season (and I did it, then they pushed back the date for season end and one of them decayed out and that pissed me off but I digress), and I really never want to do something like that again. Play it for fun, not for the numbers on the screen. Of course, the game is always more fun if you're good, but you don't really need numbers to tell you that. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 19 2015 11:59 Brian333 wrote: Yea, as a ranking system, it is too broad. I agree with that. I'm just saying that anyone at rank 1 is probably a masters / diamond player (or at least plays a specific role at that level). We aren't going to see silver / gold MMR players at rank 1. I also think it's obviously not a finished product and that it's mainly being put out there to test the drafting and rank systems. Also, the small player base is not helping the situation with the mixed matching of group sizes. But tbh, I think hotslogs is also pretty broad. I feel most players who have been masters or diamond at some point stop caring about their MMR anyways. Being a diamond+ player is a very broad categorization. I was thinking about the ranking system and it seems they do want to test promoting / demoting / matching like-ranked more than they want to tune the pace of ranking up. Like-wise I'm thinking this is why Team League (which should be almost identical programmatically to Hero League) isn't out, because they want to see how different sized parties function in Hero League (not to mention, once Team League is out the vast majority of tip-top players will be doing that instead of Hero League). Maybe the conclusions to these experiments are obvious to us, but you know what they say about assumptions and this is a beta after all. | ||
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
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wishr
Russian Federation262 Posts
Feel free to add me anyone 23+ ages, lvl 30+ @ EU, up for games every evening with lots of moba and other competitive games experience! Yaw! | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
The lanes in this game, for example, just seem to not serve any real purpose and you should instead just be gaining exp over time. What Skikyo says is kind of worrysome really. I felt the same way when i started playing "lanes are meaningless why even have them?" Of course, when you play more you realize thats not true, especially pre-lvl 10, however, a lot of those first impressions are very important and can be damaging for the develpment of the game. Also that new people don't understand that daily quest are the main source of income. Also that there is no individuality, i think there is, its just isn't as obvious, but as much as people say "its a team game there must not be individuality" the trust is, a lot of people want it, its in their nature. What i think they should do is make the individuality there is more apparent, withouth really changing the desing of the game, like for example, the "hero of the storm" title being a global announcent so people feel cool about it  | ||
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wishr
Russian Federation262 Posts
On January 17 2015 04:57 hariooo wrote: So I tried playing this game and I didn't even want to continue after the tutorial. The performance of this game is pretty bad. As in I have a GTX 670 so DOTA/CS/LOL/Smite all run minimum 60fps but HotS dips below all the time. And I'm sitting here like wtf is this because even turning all the setting to low had negligible effect on the framerate and I realize right this is the SC2 engine. Eugh. Add that to the fact that the game doesn't support mouse buttons and it's just a sloppy piece of work I've lost all interest in. Yes I know it's a "beta" but still... U must have 60+ with such VC. Update your drivers and post your full spec. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Daily quests being the main source of income isn't a good thing. I don't like playing a game daily for a little time. When I play a game, I can play it for 10 hours a day for a few days, then I might play something else for a few days. I hate logging into a game and playing it for 30 minutes, then doing something else. When I play a game, I want to play the game a lot. I've quit many games because they require me to log in every day, because personally I just can't stand playing something for just 30 minutes when I would prefer doing something else. I either play a game a lot or not at all. I guess people are different, though. Anyway, you clear dailies faster by feeding as hard as you can as well, because they seem to generally be about playing matches and not wins. | ||
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