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I was thinking about Blizzard's recent nerf to Unleash the Hounds. It was a small change that mitigated how dominating face hunter and mid-range hunter had been at the very top levels (and indeed on ladder as well). The nerf was spot on and very effective, while not being a crippling blow to the Hunter class. While Hunter is now very rarely seen on ladder I think it is still competitive (just not dominating), but maybe needs a very small buff elsewhere (maybe change buzzard to 2/2?).
Now I'm wondering if similar very small changes could be made to Miracle Rogue to bring that deck down from OP status in line with all the other top decks. Right now Miracle Rogue is used by basically every single pro at the top level. While it is more difficult to play for less experienced ladderers than mid-range Hunter was, it can still be very annoying to encounter and know that there is essentially nothing you can do and you just hope the Miracle Rogue player doesn't have the right cards and you do.
Here are a couple ideas of some nerfs that could be implemented:
- Change Preparation from 0 mana to 1 mana
- Keep Preparation cost the same but reduce the cost of the next spell by 2 instead of 3
- Change Shadowstep from 0 mana to 1 mana
For people who can take an unbiased look at the entire game, what do you think the result of either of both of these changes would be? Would they completely cripple Rogue? Preparation is only used in Miracle Rogue and not in the Tempo version, so maybe changing that card is more appropriate.
Other than that, the only OP deck I run across right now is Zoolock, but no idea how that could possibly be nerfed.
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I didn't mind Hunter as much as I mind Solitaire Rogue - people were complaining that it wasn't Unleash The Hounds but rather the draw mechanic that was broken. Regardless, Miracle Rogue appears to completely abuse the draw mechanic as my last game saw my opponent having 2 cards left whilst I was at 15. The nerf should be that the Auctioneer only draws one card per turn - that way the nerf hits all classes as well.
I don't like the fact that they have so many 0 cost spells but maybe that is to compensate for the abilities that the other classes have.
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Yeah, I don't think the problem is shadowstep or preparation. It's the ability to draw 15 cards in one turn. THAT is what needs to be fixed imo.
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Id rather nerf leeroy than anythung. I like the deck concept.
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Doesn't target the real problem of miracle which is either the finishers or the gadzetan.
I'd rather not see miracle nerfed for a while even though I don't play it. The meta will shift. It's also a combo deck which Hearthstone lacks.
Prep would be strictly worse than innervate if it did 2 mana. The rogue cards should still all be good for a standard rogue deck. Imagine no one ever thought of miracle. Would the cards still be good? I guess prep could be argued to still be ok.
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Gadgetzan needs to just be limmited to 1 card per turn and be buffed to a 4/5.
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I love the miracle rogue deck 
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Nerf Leeroy to kingdom come. It's dumb for every class to be able to have a Fireball with barely any drawback.
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On May 19 2014 08:05 obesechicken13 wrote:
Doesn't target the real problem of miracle which is either the finishers or the gadzetan.
I'd rather not see miracle nerfed for a while even though I don't play it. The meta will shift. It's also a combo deck which Hearthstone lacks.
I agree with this. I think it's important for Hearthstone to have a variety of different decks with different playstyles.
On May 19 2014 07:21 Alryk wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the problem is shadowstep or preparation. It's the ability to draw 15 cards in one turn. THAT is what needs to be fixed imo.
I don't recommend this. The ability to draw 15 cards IS the combo portion of the deck. My suggestion is rather to change conceal in some way, or give classes a way to deal with a concealed Gadgetzan. The part that makes Rogue a bit questionable is the fact that they drop Gadgetzan, conceal it, and there's nothing the opponent can do about the fact that they're going to lose next turn. THAT'S the problem IMO.
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If there had to be a nerf I'd much rather see it go on Preparation than Gadgetzan. I think it's an interesting card, same cost as a drake, potentially better drawing, but no guarantee of a draw and no +spell upside. Prep is a key component that allows Miracle to work, however even nerfing that would be a bad move in my opinion. Lets be frank, Prep is actually a pretty sucky card, it's kind of cool that people have not only found a use for it, but made it an essential component to a very powerful deck. Also I don't think Miracle is going to be around forever, if you don't draw your Gadgetzan's/Preps/Conceals then you usually fall flat. Also it's doing quite well as Agro's popularity has been toned down a little.
Miracle is probably going to fall out of fashion anyway, and if you nerf Prep or Gadget you're potentially wrecking some great deck combinations when more cards are released.
Leeroy is kind of a problem card too, Sylvanas, Tink and Pagle were all nerfed because they were been used in literally every type of deck. Leeroy has a viable place in every single deck with the exception of very control based decks that lack burst capability.
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If you nerf conceal, I'd hope it's not a straight nerf but rather had some upside. Eg the stealth becomes permanent like Master of Disguise. Breaks on drawing cards w/ the creature.
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On May 19 2014 07:21 Alryk wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the problem is shadowstep or preparation. It's the ability to draw 15 cards in one turn. THAT is what needs to be fixed imo.
lol, Preparation and Shadowstep are the only reason Gadget can draw 15+ Try doing a Miracle style deck with any other class, sure Druid has Innervate and Moonfire, but those aren't particularly useful spells at that time in the game. The ability to use Prep for 0 and Draw and them play another useful spell (Sap, Eviscerate, Shiv) for 0 leading to another draw is invaluable. Also Shadow step allows for the 12/16/18/22 damage Leeroy combos that allow Miracle to be so passive for 5-7 turns.
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On May 19 2014 08:46 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 07:21 Alryk wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the problem is shadowstep or preparation. It's the ability to draw 15 cards in one turn. THAT is what needs to be fixed imo. lol, Preparation and Shadowstep are the only reason Gadget can draw 15+ Try doing a Miracle style deck with any other class, sure Druid has Innervate and Moonfire, but those aren't particularly useful spells at that time in the game. The ability to use Prep for 0 and Draw and them play another useful spell (Sap, Eviscerate, Shiv) for 0 leading to another draw is invaluable. Also Shadow step allows for the 12/16/18/22 damage Leeroy combos that allow Miracle to be so passive for 5-7 turns.
I've definitely drawn more than 8 cards as druid with two wild growths. But yeah, that's on T10.
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I think miracle will already be weaker as the meta shifts and new cards are released. Druids are getting an answer to a concealed auctioneer with poison seeds.
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Shadowstep leroy needs the nerf bat. Once you take that mechanic out of miracle its a lot more balanced.
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As a Miracle Rogue player... this deck is TOUGH to win with!
There are lots of games where you play one wrong spell early and you can't cycle in time to race your opponent.
I don't think it needs a nerf because the deck itself doesn't win you the game. You really have to weigh that early game backstab on a 3/2 correctly. If you use it too late, you die before you can cycle (you take 3 dmg 3 turns in a row.) If you use it too early, your gadgetzan stops cycling one card earlier than the combo you needed (or the taunt you're up against lives with 2 hp and kills you next turn.)
It's a fun deck but far from a guaranteed win like Hunter was.
On May 19 2014 08:46 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2014 07:21 Alryk wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the problem is shadowstep or preparation. It's the ability to draw 15 cards in one turn. THAT is what needs to be fixed imo. lol, Preparation and Shadowstep are the only reason Gadget can draw 15+ Try doing a Miracle style deck with any other class, sure Druid has Innervate and Moonfire, but those aren't particularly useful spells at that time in the game. The ability to use Prep for 0 and Draw and them play another useful spell (Sap, Eviscerate, Shiv) for 0 leading to another draw is invaluable. Also Shadow step allows for the 12/16/18/22 damage Leeroy combos that allow Miracle to be so passive for 5-7 turns.
Warlock works pretty well, too.
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I think the free mechanic and the draw mechanics are what needs to be looked at across the board. Unleash the Hounds could draw way too much and still can (although the mana cost helps with using it for a kill) and prevents buzzard unleash on turn 4.
Hunter's Mark for 0 mana
Prep, shadowstep and Backstab for 0 mana combo'd with Auction or other cards.
Soul Fire for 0 mana
If you add a mana to these cards it would be great. I was playing as warlock last night and played 13 straight warlocks on ladder. In so many of those matches the game shifted too far with turn 2 or 3 soul fires. I just in general don't like
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The problem is Leeroy i think not Preparation or Shadowstep.
Leeroy + Shadowstep / UTH / Windfury - Rockbiter / Power Overwhelming - Faceless and many other combos.You see Leeroy in so many different different decks,even control decks,it's insane and Blizz need to nerf him somehow but not make him unplayable.
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I don't play miracle, or rogue in general, but I've seen a lot of streamers using all their turn time when they play miracle. what if we lessen the amount of time per turn given for all classes?
Though quite frankly i don't know how hard that would hit other classes, as i just play druid mindlessly.
on a side note, would nozdormu be a viable option against the miracle rogues? or perhaps we could buff nozdormu? idk.
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Cards lke Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Starving Buzzard are bad for the game in the long run and need to be changed.
With Gadgetzan Auctioneer in the game, Blizzard cannot add more 0 or 1 mana spells to the game. If you leave him be, every class will sooner of later devolve into a Miracle combo deck that draws their whole deck in1 turn.
Same goes for Starving Buzzard, which makes it impossible for Blizzard to add good low mana cost beasts to the game.
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EPT
