|
On May 09 2009 13:57 HeadBangaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 12:32 Juicyfruit wrote:
My point of view on this is: if fluoride was actually a major issue, it would have become a serious problem by now. People have been drinking fluoride water for how many years now? Still, as I said before, it would be nice to have more proper studies studying that quantify the effects of drinking fluoride in water, because at this point it's obvious that there are both pro's and con's, it's just a matter of weighing them out. When they started putting fluoride in the water, they assured everyone it was safe. And after we've been forced to consume it for years, it now seems sufficient to point to the fact that we're all not dead, as the sole proof that it is indeed safe.
so if only a few people died (obv no one knowing why), would it still be ok?
and why do you act like death could be the only negative consequence. there could be a myriad of negative symptoms.
|
United States22883 Posts
On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told.
They do experiment on their own soldiers, but they're aware of it and it's usually for different forms of speed. It really could've been a vaccine for any number of things (anthrax/smallpox/etc.) or something new, or it was just a bureaucratic mistake and the kid had a bad reaction.
The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white.
|
On May 09 2009 12:57 Weaponx3 wrote:
just a couple things , peer review journals.. they arent all what they are made to believe and many people in the medicine field have left because of how corrupt and greedy the system is. names of people are put on peer review journals that didnt participate at all in the studies. if u wish to be deceived and not investigate both sides you will never see the big picture. dont blindly follow and make educated decisions.
You mention investigating "both sides". What, in your mind, is the other side of peer-reviewed journals? Journals not reviewed by peers? YouTube channels? What?
|
On May 09 2009 14:17 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told. The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white.
I don't think these kind of people care about views like good or evil. They just follow goals.
(you're the one that's thinking in black and white imo)
|
is this really news to anyone? thought everyone knew about this for a long ass time =\
|
On May 09 2009 09:51 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 09:40 Yurebis wrote:
It's not a reaction, it's all the crap thats in these things.
Thats why I don't take any vaccines, and recommend everyone close to me not to. You're an idiot. I hope you enjoy the threat of mumps and other assorted dangerous diseases because you're a little bit ignorant on the subject. A typical vaccine is NOTHING like what was just described. I would never allow someone to give me a shot if they didn't explicitly tell me what the hell it was. Commercial vaccines are so heavily tested that it would be just stupid not to get them.
pretty much sums it up
|
United States22883 Posts
On May 09 2009 14:17 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 13:57 HeadBangaa wrote:On May 09 2009 12:32 Juicyfruit wrote:
My point of view on this is: if fluoride was actually a major issue, it would have become a serious problem by now. People have been drinking fluoride water for how many years now? Still, as I said before, it would be nice to have more proper studies studying that quantify the effects of drinking fluoride in water, because at this point it's obvious that there are both pro's and con's, it's just a matter of weighing them out. When they started putting fluoride in the water, they assured everyone it was safe. And after we've been forced to consume it for years, it now seems sufficient to point to the fact that we're all not dead, as the sole proof that it is indeed safe. so if only a few people died (obv no one knowing why), would it still be ok? and why do you act like death could be the only negative consequence. there could be a myriad of negative symptoms.
Who has died from fluoride in drinking water?
You're on the verge of setting up a runaway trolley scenario and you'll lose that argument. Yes, if you have a choice between administering vaccines which will save the vast majority of people and will definitely harm a few outliers, you generally take that risk or allow citizens to take it.
|
United States22883 Posts
On May 09 2009 14:21 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:17 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told. The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white. I don't think these kind of people care about views like good or evil. They just follow goals. (you're the one that's thinking in black and white imo)
You think scientists engage in projects to get a paycheck or just to find new information, without any care for the real world application of their work? These vaccines are being administered, sometimes on the bleeding edge of research, in order to save lives.
|
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Okay, to all you guys arguing aganist fluoride in drinking water: I checked out that website and basically, it shows that exposure to HIGH amounts of fluoride is bad, HOWEVER it says NOTHING about exposure to LOW amounts of fluoride.
Read the quotes for yourself. They refer to "children living in high fluoride areas", "An excess of fluoride", "children suffering from dental fluorosis", and so on. Basically NONE of these studies back up any claims about fluoride in drinking water being bad for us, because Nazi germany aside (LOL @ the idiots who brought that up as if it's relevant at all), we are not consuming excessive amounts of fluoride in our drinking water.
I went on to read some other sections on that page and noticed that all of the quotes refer to either HIGH fluoride intake or DO NOT SPECIFY what amount of fluroine intake was being tested.
Long story short, anyone with critical thinking skills can see that that website is irrelevant to our discussion. We are talking about small amounts in drinking water: the quotes on that website are not.
|
On May 09 2009 14:17 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 13:57 HeadBangaa wrote:On May 09 2009 12:32 Juicyfruit wrote:
My point of view on this is: if fluoride was actually a major issue, it would have become a serious problem by now. People have been drinking fluoride water for how many years now? Still, as I said before, it would be nice to have more proper studies studying that quantify the effects of drinking fluoride in water, because at this point it's obvious that there are both pro's and con's, it's just a matter of weighing them out. When they started putting fluoride in the water, they assured everyone it was safe. And after we've been forced to consume it for years, it now seems sufficient to point to the fact that we're all not dead, as the sole proof that it is indeed safe. so if only a few people died (obv no one knowing why), would it still be ok? and why do you act like death could be the only negative consequence. there could be a myriad of negative symptoms.
how dare you nitpick me!
replace "dead" with "measured, adverse effects" for a slightly less exaggerated flavor of the same idea.
|
On May 09 2009 14:26 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:21 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 14:17 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told. The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white. I don't think these kind of people care about views like good or evil. They just follow goals. (you're the one that's thinking in black and white imo) You think scientists engage in projects to get a paycheck or just to find new information, without any care for the real world application of their work? These vaccines are being administered, sometimes on the bleeding edge of research, in order to save lives.
my bad i thought we were still talking about fluoride. what I said doesn't apply as much to the vaccines(if thats what they were. not that it doesn't seem perfectly reasonable to me that they were vaccines. but this video makes it sound like there was way too high of rates of adverse reactions. it means they just gave it to tons of people without knowing what would really happen. that's terrible.
|
On May 09 2009 14:32 Bill307 wrote:Okay, to all you guys arguing aganist fluoride in drinking water: I checked out that website and basically, it shows that exposure to HIGH amounts of fluoride is bad, HOWEVER it says NOTHING about exposure to LOW amounts of fluoride. Read the quotes for yourself. They refer to "children living in high fluoride areas", "An excess of fluoride", "children suffering from dental fluorosis", and so on. Basically NONE of these studies back up any claims about fluoride in drinking water being bad for us, because Nazi germany aside (LOL @ the idiots who brought that up as if it's relevant at all), we are not consuming excessive amounts of fluoride in our drinking water. I went on to read some other sections on that page and noticed that all of the quotes refer to either HIGH fluoride intake or DO NOT SPECIFY what amount of fluroine intake was being tested. Long story short, anyone with critical thinking skills can see that that website is irrelevant to our discussion. We are talking about small amounts in drinking water: that website is not.
you think that fluoride is very bad for you at high levels, but at lower levels there are no negative consequences to anyone, even though fluoride can potentially build up over time in a person's system?
|
United States22883 Posts
On May 09 2009 14:33 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:26 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 14:21 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 14:17 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told. The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white. I don't think these kind of people care about views like good or evil. They just follow goals. (you're the one that's thinking in black and white imo) You think scientists engage in projects to get a paycheck or just to find new information, without any care for the real world application of their work? These vaccines are being administered, sometimes on the bleeding edge of research, in order to save lives. my bad i thought we were still talking about fluoride. what I said doesn't apply as much to the vaccines(if thats what they were. not that it doesn't seem perfectly reasonable to me that they were vaccines. but this video makes it sound like there was way too high of rates of adverse reactions. it means they just gave it to tons of people without knowing what would really happen. that's terrible.
Well, look at it this way. We're fighting three different wars at the moment. Does it make more sense to experiment on our own soldiers or do it on the thousands of detainees in secret prisons?
I don't really know the history behind introducing fluoride, but I do think it has worked out alright.
|
On May 09 2009 14:23 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 09:51 Jayme wrote:On May 09 2009 09:40 Yurebis wrote:
It's not a reaction, it's all the crap thats in these things.
Thats why I don't take any vaccines, and recommend everyone close to me not to. You're an idiot. I hope you enjoy the threat of mumps and other assorted dangerous diseases because you're a little bit ignorant on the subject. A typical vaccine is NOTHING like what was just described. I would never allow someone to give me a shot if they didn't explicitly tell me what the hell it was. Commercial vaccines are so heavily tested that it would be just stupid not to get them. pretty much sums it up
Well, I'd add that people like this are endangering everybody. Already we've seen a number of infants (as many as 200 in the past 2 years by some counts, though obviously I don't have time to verify every single one) die from vaccine-preventable diseases.
These were people too young to be vaccinated. They died by contracting dangerous diseases (measles, rubella, etc.) from kids whose parents decided not to vaccinate them. As we lose herd immunity, these numbers could skyrocket as these diseases run rampant in sub-populations.
Again, I'll sort of buy the libertarian argument for letting people choose whether to consume fluoride, but those who forgo vaccines are irresponsibly endangering other human lives.
|
The fluoridists can say, at best, that at low levels, we do not know the consequence.
We have become non-consenting participants in a drug experiment.
|
On May 09 2009 14:33 HeadBangaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:17 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 13:57 HeadBangaa wrote:On May 09 2009 12:32 Juicyfruit wrote:
My point of view on this is: if fluoride was actually a major issue, it would have become a serious problem by now. People have been drinking fluoride water for how many years now? Still, as I said before, it would be nice to have more proper studies studying that quantify the effects of drinking fluoride in water, because at this point it's obvious that there are both pro's and con's, it's just a matter of weighing them out. When they started putting fluoride in the water, they assured everyone it was safe. And after we've been forced to consume it for years, it now seems sufficient to point to the fact that we're all not dead, as the sole proof that it is indeed safe. so if only a few people died (obv no one knowing why), would it still be ok? and why do you act like death could be the only negative consequence. there could be a myriad of negative symptoms. how dare you nitpick me! replace "dead" with "measured, adverse effects" for a slightly less exaggerated flavor of the same idea.
my point was that your entire argument hinged on "it now seems sufficient to point to the fact that we're all not dead, as the sole proof that it is indeed safe.". yes, we are not all dead. but as we agree that is not the only possible negative consequence. it's not like johnny fluoride would know that his lethargy(or whatever symptom u want to put in) is caused by a fluoride buildup or hypersensitivity.
On May 09 2009 14:25 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:17 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 13:57 HeadBangaa wrote:On May 09 2009 12:32 Juicyfruit wrote:
My point of view on this is: if fluoride was actually a major issue, it would have become a serious problem by now. People have been drinking fluoride water for how many years now? Still, as I said before, it would be nice to have more proper studies studying that quantify the effects of drinking fluoride in water, because at this point it's obvious that there are both pro's and con's, it's just a matter of weighing them out. When they started putting fluoride in the water, they assured everyone it was safe. And after we've been forced to consume it for years, it now seems sufficient to point to the fact that we're all not dead, as the sole proof that it is indeed safe. so if only a few people died (obv no one knowing why), would it still be ok? and why do you act like death could be the only negative consequence. there could be a myriad of negative symptoms. Who has died from fluoride in drinking water? You're on the verge of setting up a runaway trolley scenario and you'll lose that argument. Yes, if you have a choice between administering vaccines which will save the vast majority of people and will definitely harm a few outliers, you generally take that risk or allow citizens to take it.
I didn't say that anyone died, it was a hypothetical.
|
United States22883 Posts
On May 09 2009 14:40 HeadBangaa wrote:
The fluoridists can say, at best, that at low levels, we do not know the consequence.
We have become non-consenting participants in a drug experiment.
Get your water elsewhere. There's plenty of things we don't directly consent to.
EDIT: If your history is right (I'm too lazy and indifferent to check) then it certainly does raise alarms for future policies, but the point I'm making is that at some point, usually at the city/county level, we did become consenting participants even if you didn't give direct consent, probably because you were just a sperm back then.
There are some policies choices that have never been presented to us, but I don't think this is one of them. Through representative democracy, we did give our consent.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
im sure they did this on a whim with no research and warrant. op is a hero for exposing this long standing conspiracy and saving many lives from torment in the process
|
On May 09 2009 14:40 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:33 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 14:26 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 14:21 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 14:17 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told. The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white. I don't think these kind of people care about views like good or evil. They just follow goals. (you're the one that's thinking in black and white imo) You think scientists engage in projects to get a paycheck or just to find new information, without any care for the real world application of their work? These vaccines are being administered, sometimes on the bleeding edge of research, in order to save lives. my bad i thought we were still talking about fluoride. what I said doesn't apply as much to the vaccines(if thats what they were. not that it doesn't seem perfectly reasonable to me that they were vaccines. but this video makes it sound like there was way too high of rates of adverse reactions. it means they just gave it to tons of people without knowing what would really happen. that's terrible. Well, look at it this way. We're fighting three different wars at the moment. Does it make more sense to experiment on our own soldiers or do it on the thousands of detainees in secret prisons? I don't really know the history behind introducing fluoride, but I do think it has worked out alright.
The most profitable war is the war on cancer and other diseases.
here is a video (2.5 hours long) with some stuff about bio terrorism, conspiracy, etc. for those already intersted in the subject. (mainly for people interested in the source of some people's differing viewpoints)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674401787208020885&ei=LJnzSbj0K5v6rAL0xrT_CA&q=in lies we trust&hl=en
this is the guy that produced it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Horowitz
|
United States22883 Posts
On May 09 2009 14:47 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 14:40 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 14:33 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 14:26 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 14:21 travis wrote:On May 09 2009 14:17 Jibba wrote:On May 09 2009 11:22 Chuiu wrote:Everything this guy went through sounds like a severe allergic reaction to penicillin. Maybe there's less to this than everyone thinks, I certainly doubt the US is out to experiment on its own soldiers. On May 09 2009 11:20 Shizuru~ wrote:On May 09 2009 11:16 Chef wrote:On May 09 2009 11:14 Frits wrote:
You disagree with me? Here are some more youtube video's, I have no idea how to debate so I'm just gonna link a bunch of youtubes, cya. The Internet :D its better to present an argument with nothing right? if u have any informative insights please go ahead and say, i'm all ears and open to what people have to say If you're going to argue something present actual information from reputable sources. Not some guy who claims to have spoken to some scientists somewhere and is telling us what he was told. The idea of the evil government/big pharma is equally as absurd as the idea of evil terrorists. Grow up and stop thinking in black/white. I don't think these kind of people care about views like good or evil. They just follow goals. (you're the one that's thinking in black and white imo) You think scientists engage in projects to get a paycheck or just to find new information, without any care for the real world application of their work? These vaccines are being administered, sometimes on the bleeding edge of research, in order to save lives. my bad i thought we were still talking about fluoride. what I said doesn't apply as much to the vaccines(if thats what they were. not that it doesn't seem perfectly reasonable to me that they were vaccines. but this video makes it sound like there was way too high of rates of adverse reactions. it means they just gave it to tons of people without knowing what would really happen. that's terrible. Well, look at it this way. We're fighting three different wars at the moment. Does it make more sense to experiment on our own soldiers or do it on the thousands of detainees in secret prisons? I don't really know the history behind introducing fluoride, but I do think it has worked out alright. The most profitable war is the war on cancer and other diseases. here is a video (2.5 hours long) with some stuff about bio terrorism, conspiracy, etc. for those already intersted in the subject. (mainly for people interested in the source of some people's differing viewpoints) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674401787208020885&ei=LJnzSbj0K5v6rAL0xrT_CA&q=in lies we trust&hl=enthis is the guy that produced it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Horowitz
Sigh. I think it's time to flee.
Leonard George Horowitz DMD, MA, MPH (b. 1952- ) is a former dentist, a health industry entrepreneur, and the author of a number of books, pamphlets, DVDs, CDs and articles on public health issues; the books and pamphlets have been published under his own Tetrahedron imprint.
...
Dr. Horowitz works closely with some Web-based vendors of Holistic Health remedies of various kinds, occasionally setting up their websites for them. In the immediate wake of the 2003 SARS outbreak, he and some associates promoted what they claimed was "effective treatment" for the disease, a spectrum of naturopathic products all using the name "Urbani"
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
