On November 21 2010 22:55 KakashiX wrote: i attended a lecture about the physics behind this, people are being really snooty about it "invading their privacy" but the same technology is used in shopping malls to find out what size clothes you fit. Apparently thats ok, but trying to stop terrorists? nah we will pass on that one....
it annoys me!
edit:its not x rays(forgotten what type of wave) and its hardly nude photos, just a rough shape to check everything is normal, during the lecture they also showed the same technology that had an AI that would recognise weapons for explosives.
You know if you can't recall the name, and are incapable of using google you might as well not post. But just to fill in the huge gaps its one of Millimeter wave scanner or Backscatter X-ray.
Both types of body imaging have associated health risks. If your "lecture" didn't mention it I can easily imagine it was a recruiting talk by the monkeys who run TSA.
The problem is not only with the scanning itself but with the whole system that has brought about the scanning. The TSA was created in response to 9/11, everything they do is in response to whatever the latest attempted terrorist plot happens to be. Since the installation of the body scanners there have been zero discoveries of weapons or explosives. The TSA mostly finds small amounts of recreational drugs (which they hold on to and then do you the courtesy of notifying the police so that they can come get you), and oversize bottles of lotion, haircare products, and perfume. As the measures get more invasive, the terrorists will adapt. The TSA is always one step behind the terrorists yet every American that flies has to give up their rights for the illusion of safety.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin
The only thing I wonder about these full body scans is "why are they necessary now when they weren't six months ago? What has happened between now and then that made them necessary? Did they learn something new?" I'll reserve judgement until someone gives me an answer that warrants the change.
I better get rid off some fat before my next trip, seriously, i wanna look sexier next time i go to the airport. Really uncomfortable measures, but hey, SAFETY comes first.
That is ridiculous that security would strip search a young boy. I cant believe that this stuff is going on, all the statements of losing freedom in the small things of life is actually happening.
On November 21 2010 22:55 KakashiX wrote: i attended a lecture about the physics behind this, people are being really snooty about it "invading their privacy" but the same technology is used in shopping malls to find out what size clothes you fit. Apparently thats ok, but trying to stop terrorists? nah we will pass on that one....
it annoys me!
edit:its not x rays(forgotten what type of wave) and its hardly nude photos, just a rough shape to check everything is normal, during the lecture they also showed the same technology that had an AI that would recognise weapons for explosives.
In the words of a great man,
Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -Abraham Lincoln
if everyone were to refuse the scan and opt for the pat downs, it would create such a huge problem that the TSA would have to change their policies as people would absolutely start missing their flights.
The greatest irony of this situation is that the bottle necks imposed by these procedures creates the best possible target for a willing terrorist to attack. During peak hours at airports like Pearson, O'Hare, LAX etc there can be hundreds of people in line clustered together with no immediate escape path (because of the lane queuing/bars in place). It's incredibly difficult to get a "device" on a plane...getting a device into the hub of a group of travelers seems quite easy.
On November 22 2010 10:08 Kennigit wrote: The greatest irony of this situation is that the bottle necks imposed by these procedures creates the best possible target for a willing terrorist to attack. During peak hours at airports like Pearson, O'Hare, LAX etc there can be hundreds of people in line clustered together with no immediate escape path (because of the lane queuing/bars in place). It's incredibly difficult to get a "device" on a plane...getting a device into the hub of a group of travelers seems quite easy.
It only takes one.
Oh shit, now there's going to be a line just to get in the line.
On November 22 2010 10:08 Kennigit wrote: The greatest irony of this situation is that the bottle necks imposed by these procedures creates the best possible target for a willing terrorist to attack. During peak hours at airports like Pearson, O'Hare, LAX etc there can be hundreds of people in line clustered together with no immediate escape path (because of the lane queuing/bars in place). It's incredibly difficult to get a "device" on a plane...getting a device into the hub of a group of travelers seems quite easy.
It only takes one.
This is a logical conclusion, they have targeted super markets and malls before. Hopefully they don't figure it out. They blow up people in baghdad in the market streets.
On November 21 2010 22:55 KakashiX wrote: i attended a lecture about the physics behind this, people are being really snooty about it "invading their privacy" but the same technology is used in shopping malls to find out what size clothes you fit. Apparently thats ok, but trying to stop terrorists? nah we will pass on that one....
it annoys me!
Wait a second... what malls are you going to? How is that more cost effective than letting people just try on clothes to see if they fit, especially when different people like their clothing fitted differently. In addition, for clothing, you wouldn't need to see someone's body but just know the size so that it just calculates the numbers and spits it out.
So yea, considering that I'm completely unfamiliar with this type of technology, it is weird to me. To me it's just kind of overdoing it. If there are health risks involved, then yea, I am against it. As for privacy, I'm against it too. Airports keep becoming more and more of a hassle. I remember getting pulled aside for questioning when I was like 16 years old. I told them I was flying home to Chicago and no, I've never had the ribs there (that must've been suspicious).
I guess I just don't see how the current system isn't enough. It's at a point where I really don't understand some regulations. For instance, if fluids just have to be divided into three oz, what prevents someone from taking like fifteen 3oz bottles of fluid and combining them? This summer I must've traveled with around 15oz of stuff, but since it was all separated it was ok. Also, my ID was expired (which I didn't know until the security guard pointed it out), but they were like 'whatever' and let me through. I got through two airports on that expired ID. The first airport didn't say anything.
We don't need more weird things like nude scans. We just need security guards to do their current job well and that should be good enough.
well at least I dont have to be the one to look at the bodies of fat and/or old men.
btw the fluid rule is literally the dumbest shit ever. try mixing the materials to make an explosive on a plane, I dare you. you will just start a fire in the bathroom, die a horrible death and then the fire retardants will stop it from being a risk to anyone else.
On November 19 2010 10:24 Zealotdriver wrote: At some point, the terrorists will figure out that they can just bomb the line waiting to go through security. Then what will we do?
On November 22 2010 10:08 Kennigit wrote: The greatest irony of this situation is that the bottle necks imposed by these procedures creates the best possible target for a willing terrorist to attack. During peak hours at airports like Pearson, O'Hare, LAX etc there can be hundreds of people in line clustered together with no immediate escape path (because of the lane queuing/bars in place). It's incredibly difficult to get a "device" on a plane...getting a device into the hub of a group of travelers seems quite easy.
On November 22 2010 10:08 Kennigit wrote: The greatest irony of this situation is that the bottle necks imposed by these procedures creates the best possible target for a willing terrorist to attack. During peak hours at airports like Pearson, O'Hare, LAX etc there can be hundreds of people in line clustered together with no immediate escape path (because of the lane queuing/bars in place). It's incredibly difficult to get a "device" on a plane...getting a device into the hub of a group of travelers seems quite easy.
It only takes one.
Oh shit, now there's going to be a line just to get in the line.
Yo dawg, I heard you like waiting in line, so we put a line on your line so you can say fuck it and just drive instead.
A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was
left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.
“I was absolutely humiliated, I couldn’t even speak,” said Thomas D. “Tom” Sawyer, 61, of Lansing, Mich.
Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his stomach. “I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes.”
On Nov. 7, Sawyer said he went through the advertisement advertisement Courtesy Thomas Sawyer Thomas Sawyer, 61, said he was left "humiliated" and covered in urine after undergoing a TSA pat-down. 393433926217993370499 TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine 'I was absolutely humiliated,' said bladder cancer survivor
security scanner at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. “Evidently the scanner picked up on my urostomy bag, because I was chosen for a pat-down procedure.”
Due to his medical condition, Sawyer asked to be screened in private. “One officer looked at another, rolled his eyes and said that they really didn’t have any place to take me,” said Sawyer. “After I said again that I’d like privacy, they took me to an office.”
Sawyer wears pants two sizes too large in order to accommodate the medical equipment he wears. He’d taken off his belt to go through the scanner and once in the office with security personnel, his pants fell down around his ankles. “I had to ask twice if it was OK to pull up my shorts,” said Sawyer, “And every time I tried to tell them about my medical condition, they said they didn’t need to know about that.”
Related: Obama: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary
Before starting the enhanced pat-down procedure, a security officer did tell him what they were going to do and how they were going to it, but Sawyer said it wasn’t until they asked him to remove his sweatshirt and saw his urostomy bag that they asked any questions about his medical condition.
“One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me. Sure
enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants.”
The security officer finished the pat-down, tested the gloves for any trace of explosives and then, Sawyer said, “He told me I could go. They never apologized. They never offered to help. They acted like they hadn’t seen what happened. But I know they saw it because I had a wet mark.”
Humiliated, upset and wet, Sawyer said he had to walk through the airport soaked in urine, board his plane and wait until after takeoff before he could clean up.
“I am totally appalled by the fact that agents that are performing these pat-downs have so little concern for people with medical conditions,” said Sawyer.
Vote: What do you think about "opt out" day? advertisement advertisement
Sawyer completed his trip and had no problems with the security procedures at the Orlando International Airport on his journey back home. He said he plans to file a formal complaint with the TSA.
When he does, said TSA spokesperson Dwayne Baird, “We will review the matter and t ake appropriate action if necessary.” In the meantime, Baird encourages anyone with a medical condition to read the TSA’s website section on assistive devices and mobility aids.
The website says that travelers with disabilities and medical conditions have “the option of requesting a private screening” and that security officers “will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace.”
Related: TSA forces cancer survivor to show prosthetic breast
Sawyer said he's written to his senators, state representatives and the president of the United States. He’s also shared details of the incident online with members of the nonprofit Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, many of whom have offered support and shared their travel experiences.
“I am a good American and I want safety for all passengers as much as the next person," Sawyer said. "But if this country is going to sacrifice treating people like human beings in the name of safety, then we have already lost the war.”
Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network executive director Claire Saxton said that there are hundreds of thousands of people living with ostomies in the United States. “TSA agents need to be trained to listen when someone tells them have a health issue and trained in knowing what an ostomy is. No one living with an ostomy should be afraid of flying because they’re afraid of being humiliated at the checkpoint.”
Eric Lipp, executive director of Open Doors Association, which works with businesses and the disability community, called what happened to Sawyer “unfortunate.”
“But enhanced pat-downs are not a new issue for people with disabilities who travel," Lipp said. "They've always had trouble getting through the security checkpoint."
Still, Lipp said the TSA knows there’s a problem. “This came up during a recent advertisement advertisement
meeting of the agency’s disability advisory board and I expect to see a procedure coming in place shortly that will directly address the pat-down procedures for people with disabilities.”
Harriet Baskas is a frequent contributor to msnbc.com, authors the “Stuck at the Airport” blog and is a columnist for USATODAY.com. You can follow her on Twitter .
advertisement advertisement Quantcast
TL;DR: Man with cancer problems needs urine bag strapped outside his body. TSA strip search in a very rude manner, and despite repeated warnings from the poor guy, fucked up the pee bag and the man was covered in his own piss. TSA pretend they didn't see anything, and without even an apology, sends him on his way. Man is humiliated and outraged.
In Soviet Russia America, security pisses on YOU.
also in the article: Breast cancer woman forced to show her prosthetic boob. More humiliation and rage ensues.
It does my heart good to see the "outrage" of the people. I smile at the lawsuits being brought against TSA. Unfortunately, too many people have already suffered this infringement on privacy. I am grateful to the people who stand up for their rights and fight for freedom. The people who remember that the atrocities during the holocaust began with one simple decree entitled:
Order of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State
Thank you to those whose eyes are open and who choose to think for themselves. And to those who disagree - it is your right to think as you wish because of the people who fought for that freedom.
A response given by the head of the TSA, John Pistole, who says the agency may consider changing their protocol.
Contains a mention of the aforementioned urine bag and boob implant cases, but also a new case where apparently during a pat-down a TSA officer stuck her hand inside a woman's panties and groped. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like it's crossed "Violating 4th Amendment" territory and gone right into "Sexual Assault" territory. In exactly what kind of situation would such a "search" be considered reasonable?
On November 20 2010 12:55 Dayvan wrote: if you don't approve of how a system runs, you don't have to use it.
It is unfortunate you think this way. I've never understood how people go through life thinking, "Whatever the overlords throw at me, I'll just deal with it and ridicule people who desire freedom".
You must live in a completely different world than the one I live in.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but I only have two things to say about this.
You must live in a very socialist world because where I'm from, if people don't pay for your product then it doesn't get sold. In a capitalist society, the niche always gets filled by someone/something else that's worth your two cents.
Freedom doesn't come from bitching, it comes from action. In this country action is manifested by dollar bills.
How the hell am I ridiculing freedom? This whole time I've been professing my desire for the freedom to live. If I wanted to come up with some stupid naive argument blaming one source over some other source to make it sound like I cared, I would just blame the radical fundamentalist groups who caused a necessity for all of this security to begin with. Unfortunately not everyone in this country responds to reason and that's why I insist people protest on the surest way to get attention: not by denying them your confidence but by denying them your checkbook.
But these scanners are mandatory. If you fly, you have to go through them. Saying "then don't use it" is like saying "then don't go anywhere ever."
no they are not mandatory. you can decline and get a pat down instead. from what i've gathered they do not literally touch your junk. most people are just going on the Touch my junk video and running with it.... they stop on your lower abdomen and at your upper leg. some people are just way too sensitive.
We are talking about mega-tonne 747s flying at hundreds of miles per hour above my house, my parents work, our children's school. Thousands of people a day are using these aircrafts. it better be for fucking sure safe to enter.
and talk about profiling or Israeli-styled security as some have pointed out to being the better option. imagine your TSA with sub-machine guns, stopping you when you pull up in your car, stopping you when you enter, stopping you when you pick up your tickets and check your bags. All asking you the same questions, being hassled your entire time at the airport. Sure there are no body scanners, but if that really the better option?
but A) Only about 10-15% of the travelling public are chosen for body scanners.
B) People chosen for the bodyscan/patdowns most of the time were selected even before they reached the airport. If it happens to you once, expect it every time. You are being profiled or selected on purpose.
C) Getting a pat down, if chosen, takes literally 25 seconds. Literally. Nobody wants to touch your penis. Nobody will. If they do, talk to their supervisors, then their supervisors. Get all of their names. It is completely unjust and wrong for this to happen. They are using a general search used by the police, not a prison style -- squat and cough type of shit.
D) You have no idea the amount of weapons and drugs I personally have seized or seen seized from people you would not expect. And from those you would expect. And therein lies the problem.
shorter answer-- get a pat down, its not bad at all. But i bet you you won't be chosen anyways.
So, according to:
A) Only certain people are chosen to suffer this unconstitutional humiliation? How, may I ask, is that protecting homeland security when, according to your statistics, 85-90% of John Q Public walks right past the guards?
B) I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Big Brother is - and has been for years - watching us. And the citizens of the United States (too many of them) follow blindly believing whatever the government brainwashes them to believe.
C) By "nobody" do you mean that sicko who can't get a job as a law enforcement officer so, they get hired by private security companies?
D) We know that a granny's nail file is considered a weapon, oh and the knife that grandpa uses to whittle away at a piece of wood is a deadly weapon as well.
*sighs* I'm frightened at what is going on, but more frightened that people would even try to rationalize it. Of course your history books won't tell you the god-awful truths, so talk to someone's grandparents who survived the Holocaust and then come back and post "hey, it's nothing."
A) Obviously the public is subject to airport security procedure. They simply do not walk through, no. Travel and you will understand said procedures.
B) .....
C) No i mean, from what I have been taught in Canada, you do not touch a persons genitals. It's pretty fucked up to do so, as I believe they do not have the right. IF they say they are going to, stop them, tell them to call the police over, and have them explain to the police officer what suspicion they have in your groin. Then if the cop does not laugh in their face, have the police offer conduct the search. Then press charges.. ehehe nah i dunoo. And i'm not sure of your statement you make about "sickos" so I will leave it alone. And AGAIN, the body scanner is not mandatory.
D) No, a nail file is not a weapon. What we HAVE learnt here is your complete lack of knowledge in this subject. What is with people just spewing shit everywhere? Get down off of your cross and stop being such a pussy about everything. Nobody cares about you when you go through an airport. You are just a random passenger that we want to clear properly so we can move on to the next one.
And chill with the holocaust stuff. You are so way off it's almost comical. Hey Mom I heard you got pat down at the airport, how was it?? OH son, have you ever heard of the holocaust? God you are dim dude.
D D) I care about me. and thats all its going to take for me to shove my foot up the TSA's ass
EPT
