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Nude body scans at airports - Page 23

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Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-20 16:54:28
November 20 2010 16:52 GMT
#441
I don't get it. Lets say you are horribly afraid of perverted, demented, security guards invading your privacy. You can't stand those people.

I don't get why being seen like this

[image loading]

Would bother you more then being stripped search, taking off all your cloths in front of random strangers except your panties and bra.
Too Busy to Troll!
samalie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada87 Posts
November 20 2010 17:13 GMT
#442
Hey, if a law enforcement official has probable cause that can withstand court scrutiny then they are free to virtually or actually strip search me.

There is no cause. There is no justification, other than "I want to travel in an airplane".

It is unconstitutional, therefore illegal, and everyone should be outraged.

You guys see this today? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news/

+ Show Spoiler +
A longtime Charlotte, N.C., flight attendant and cancer survivor told a local television station that she was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a pat-down.

Cathy Bossi, who works for U.S. Airways, said she received the pat-down after declining to do the full-body scan because of radiation concerns.

The TSA screener "put her full hand on my breast and said, 'What is this?' " Bossi told the station. "And I said, 'It's my prosthesis because I've had breast cancer.' And she said, 'Well, you'll need to show me that.' "

Bossi said she removed the prosthetic from her bra. She did not take the name of the agent, she said, "because it was just so horrific of an experience, I couldn't believe someone had done that to me. I'm a flight attendant. I was just trying to get to work."

For Americans who wear prosthetics — either because they are cancer survivors or have lost a limb — or who have undergone hip replacements or have a pacemaker, the humiliation of the TSA's new security procedures — choosing between a body scan or body search — is even worse.

Musa Mayer has worn a breast prosthesis for 21 years since her mastectomy and is used to the alarms it sets off at airport security. But nothing prepared her for the "invasive and embarrassing" experience of being patted down, poked and examined recently while passing through airport security at Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.

"I asked the supervisor if she realized that there are 3 million women who have had breast cancer in the U.S., many of whom wear breast prostheses. Will each of us now have to undergo this humiliating, time-consuming routine every time we pass through one of these new body scanners?" she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com.

'I was so humiliated'
Marlene McCarthy of Rhode Island said she went through the body scanner and was told by a TSA agent to step aside. In "full view of everyone," McCarthy said in an e-mail, the agent "immediately put the back of her hand on my right side chest and I explained I wore a prosthesis.

"Then, she put her full hands ... one on top and one on the bottom of my 'breast' and moved the prosthesis left, right, up, down and said 'OK.' I was so humiliated.

"I went to the desk area and complained," McCarthy wrote. "The woman there was very nice and I asked her if the training included an understanding of how prosthetics are captured on the scanner and told her the pat-down is embarrassing. She said, 'We have never even had that discussion and I do the training for the TSA employees here, following the standard manual provided.' She said she will bring it up at their next meeting."

If she has to go through the scanner again, McCarthy said, "I am determined to put the prosthesis in the gray bucket," provided to travelers at the security check-ins for items such as jewelry.

"Let the TSA scanners be embarrassed .... not me anymore!" she wrote.

Sharon Kiss, 66, has a pacemaker, but also has to fly often for her work.

"During a recent enhanced pat-down, a screener cupped my breasts and felt my genitals," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com "To 'clear my waistband' she put her hands down my pants and groped for the waistband of my underwear.

"I expressed humiliation and was told 'You have the choice not to fly.' "

The remark infuriated Kiss, who lives in Mendocino, Calif. "Extrapolate this to we should not provide curb cuts and ramps for people confined to wheelchairs because they can choose to stay home ... This a violation of civil rights. And because I have a disability, I should not be subjected to what is government-sanctioned sexual assault in order to board a plane."

TSA: Pilots to be exempt from some airport security checks

No planned changes to security
So far, the government is not letting up on the enhanced screening program. TSA administrator John Pistole said this week at a Congressional hearing on the matter that "reasonable people can disagree" on how to properly balance safety at the nation's airports, but that the new security measures are necessary because of intelligence on latest attack methods that might be used by terrorists.

Gail Mengel, of Blue Springs, Mo., is used to being patted down; she had a hip replacement five years ago.

"I admit that I was relieved when I flew last week and was able to spend a few seconds in front of the X-ray screen in Seattle and Denver," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com. "I have heard medical experts say the level of radiation will not hurt us. And frankly I was happy to realize I won't have my body touched, patted and rubbed anymore.

"Unfortunately last weekend, I arrived at the New Orleans airport and learned that airport staff (was) still being trained in using the X-ray machine. Because my hip replacement sets off the security buzzer, I was faced with the new regulations."

While she is "used to" being patted down, "this experience was certainly much more personal, uncomfortable and embarrassing," she said. "Every part of my body was touched. I do not want to be harmed by radiation, but the experience was painless and quick compared to what I have faced over the last five years. I support security measures but I also hope we can be assured of safe procedures."

One man, from Nashville, wrote in an e-mail that "as a handicapped person, I am sick and tired of being 'raped' at the security line. I lose my crutches and leg orthotics to be 'nuked' by the X-ray machine. Then manhandled by the pat-down, followed by chemical swabbing for 'possible explosives.' ...Enough is enough."

Said Mayer, the longtime breast cancer survivor: "I am outraged that I will now be forced to show my prosthesis to strangers, remove it and put in the X-ray bin for screening, or not to wear it at all whenever I fly. To me, this seems unfairly discriminatory and embarrassing for me, and for all breast cancer survivors."
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
November 20 2010 17:20 GMT
#443
On November 20 2010 16:29 Dayvan wrote:
Yes, the irony is that you still don't understand its possible to both informed AND an asshole at the same time. Like I said, I have no problem learning what its really about from you (though I have no intention of considering anything you've said as a fact until I've heard it from a reliable source) but like most people I don't really care to take any shit.

There are links all over this thread. Links to how they don't work, links to the suggested medical drawbacks, hell you can just go look up the TSA on wikipedia, there's a whole section dedicated to detailing their incompetence. I have posted some of them myself. If you can't be bothered to read the thread, and "like most people" you really don't give a shit, then why are you posting? Stop being mad because someone corrected you, do what you came here to do and learn silently.

What I was referencing was this "Think of all the money sunk into all of these machines everywhere in the world, now think of how many life-saving medical treatments could be financed with that kind of money. Or food to starving people, or foreign aid to crisis zones."

Those were not suggestions. They were comparisons to show the comparative value of the money that is being wholly wasted on these machines. And you wouldn't be in favor of any one of them? Okay bro.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-20 17:26:35
November 20 2010 17:25 GMT
#444

There is no cause. There is no justification, other than "I want to travel in an airplane".

It is unconstitutional, therefore illegal, and everyone should be outraged.


Airports are privately owned by corporations, and subject to the regulations of private property, not public property. (Most) Airport security personnel are not law enforcement, but private security personnel.

So no, it isn't unconstitutional.
Too Busy to Troll!
samalie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada87 Posts
November 20 2010 17:30 GMT
#445
On November 21 2010 02:25 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +

There is no cause. There is no justification, other than "I want to travel in an airplane".

It is unconstitutional, therefore illegal, and everyone should be outraged.


Airports are privately owned by corporations, and subject to the regulations of private property, not public property. (Most) Airport security personnel are not law enforcement, but private security personnel.

So no, it isn't unconstitutional.


The TSA is a Federal Government entity, conducting mandatory illegal searches on private property.

Nice try.
Scrapiron
Profile Joined August 2010
74 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-20 17:37:26
November 20 2010 17:36 GMT
#446
"Would bother you more then being stripped search, taking off all your cloths in front of random strangers except your panties and bra."
The fact is, you shouldn't have to submit to either one. A lot of the people posting in this thread are definitely the submissive types, which seems to be the majority in America (and the reason they get away with treating us like fucking cattle). You know what? I don't want the 40 year old woman telling my 12 year old daughter that she has to either get naked pictures taken of her or be strip searched and then molested, I call that pedophilia.
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-20 18:52:37
November 20 2010 18:50 GMT
#447
On November 21 2010 02:25 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +

There is no cause. There is no justification, other than "I want to travel in an airplane".

It is unconstitutional, therefore illegal, and everyone should be outraged.


Airports are privately owned by corporations, and subject to the regulations of private property, not public property. (Most) Airport security personnel are not law enforcement, but private security personnel.

So no, it isn't unconstitutional.

Ye it is. TSA is public. And Flying is a necessity for many people Just like owning a car. We aren't second class citizens. We don't want this bullshit. And we're not going to have it or we are going to raise fucking hell.
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
November 20 2010 18:53 GMT
#448
I'm gonna request my full-body grope come from the female security guards, don't want a guy feeling up my junk.
i-bonjwa
Zhek
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada342 Posts
November 20 2010 19:04 GMT
#449
On November 21 2010 03:53 SichuanPanda wrote:
I'm gonna request my full-body grope come from the female security guards, don't want a guy feeling up my junk.


Nope, it's same sex groping.
ev8
Profile Joined October 2010
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-20 19:24:37
November 20 2010 19:23 GMT
#450
On November 20 2010 14:05 GumThief wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2010 13:44 Ferrose wrote:
On November 20 2010 13:36 Dayvan wrote:
On November 20 2010 13:07 Romantic wrote:
On November 20 2010 12:55 Dayvan wrote:
if you don't approve of how a system runs, you don't have to use it.


It is unfortunate you think this way. I've never understood how people go through life thinking, "Whatever the overlords throw at me, I'll just deal with it and ridicule people who desire freedom".

You must live in a completely different world than the one I live in.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but I only have two things to say about this.

You must live in a very socialist world because where I'm from, if people don't pay for your product then it doesn't get sold. In a capitalist society, the niche always gets filled by someone/something else that's worth your two cents.

Freedom doesn't come from bitching, it comes from action. In this country action is manifested by dollar bills.

How the hell am I ridiculing freedom? This whole time I've been professing my desire for the freedom to live. If I wanted to come up with some stupid naive argument blaming one source over some other source to make it sound like I cared, I would just blame the radical fundamentalist groups who caused a necessity for all of this security to begin with. Unfortunately not everyone in this country responds to reason and that's why I insist people protest on the surest way to get attention: not by denying them your confidence but by denying them your checkbook.


But these scanners are mandatory. If you fly, you have to go through them. Saying "then don't use it" is like saying "then don't go anywhere ever."



no they are not mandatory. you can decline and get a pat down instead. from what i've gathered they do not literally touch your junk. most people are just going on the Touch my junk video and running with it.... they stop on your lower abdomen and at your upper leg. some people are just way too sensitive.

We are talking about mega-tonne 747s flying at hundreds of miles per hour above my house, my parents work, our children's school. Thousands of people a day are using these aircrafts. it better be for fucking sure safe to enter.

and talk about profiling or Israeli-styled security as some have pointed out to being the better option. imagine your TSA with sub-machine guns, stopping you when you pull up in your car, stopping you when you enter, stopping you when you pick up your tickets and check your bags. All asking you the same questions, being hassled your entire time at the airport. Sure there are no body scanners, but if that really the better option?

but A) Only about 10-15% of the travelling public are chosen for body scanners.

B) People chosen for the bodyscan/patdowns most of the time were selected even before they reached the airport. If it happens to you once, expect it every time. You are being profiled or selected on purpose.

C) Getting a pat down, if chosen, takes literally 25 seconds. Literally. Nobody wants to touch your penis. Nobody will. If they do, talk to their supervisors, then their supervisors. Get all of their names. It is completely unjust and wrong for this to happen. They are using a general search used by the police, not a prison style -- squat and cough type of shit.

D) You have no idea the amount of weapons and drugs I personally have seized or seen seized from people you would not expect. And from those you would expect. And therein lies the problem.



shorter answer-- get a pat down, its not bad at all. But i bet you you won't be chosen anyways.


Copout after pathetic copout.

Israeli style security. How would submachine guns and questions prevent any sort of hidden safety threat? Why is this even being mentioned?

A) A child molester only molests 10-15% of the kids on your street. Is this acceptable? Is it acceptable if he claims it's for national security? What about if it's just to keep school buses safe? We are talking about 10-ton 40-mph death machines zooming past our houses at speeds which could destroy walls. Millions of children per day are using these school buses. How safe does it need to be?
B) Irrelevant.
C) How is a pat-down effective if the genital area is ignored? If the trained standard is to ignore the genital area, how are the cases in which it is not ignored explained?
D) Irrelevant. Everyone is aware of weapons and drugs at airports.
"where are my uni- what are you - how are you doing? what are you doing?"
GumThief
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada284 Posts
November 20 2010 20:53 GMT
#451
I don't even know how to respond to such a low quality, poorly thought out post full of bullshit and sensationalized garbage. Have a nice day.
:))
ev8
Profile Joined October 2010
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-20 23:00:04
November 20 2010 22:39 GMT
#452
Logic, garbage, tomato, tomato. You too buddy.
"where are my uni- what are you - how are you doing? what are you doing?"
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
November 21 2010 02:37 GMT
#453
TSA employees pull down a woman's blouse, exposing her breasts, and then laugh about it.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/268/650/Lawsuits:TSA_Hit_As_Revolt_Explodes.html

+ Show Spoiler +
The TSA has been hit with a number of lawsuits as the revolt against Big Sis, naked body scanners, and invasive groping measures explodes, with one case involving a woman who had her blouse pulled down in full public view by TSA goons who then proceeded to laugh and joke about her exposed breasts.

Nationwide outrage against the TSA is not only bringing to light new cases of airport abuse, it’s throwing fresh attention on previous incidents that have been going on for years.One of the most disturbing, which is subject to an ongoing lawsuit, involved a 21-year-old college student from Amarillo Texas. The woman was passing through security at Corpus Christi airport on May 29 2008 when she was subjected to “extended search procedures” by the TSA.

“As the TSA agent was frisking plaintiff, the agent pulled the plaintiff’s blouse completely down, exposing plaintiffs’ breasts to everyone in the area,” the lawsuit said. “As would be expected, plaintiff was extremely embarrassed and humiliated.”

TSA workers continued to laugh and joke about the incident “for an extended period of time,” leaving the woman distraught and needing to be consoled. After the woman re-entered the boarding area, TSA workers continued to humiliate her over the incident.

“One male TSA employee expressed to the plaintiff that he wished he would have been there when she came through the first time and that ‘he would just have to watch the video,’” the suit said.

The woman filed an administrative claim against the TSA but was forced to launch a full lawsuit after the agency failed to respond.

The incident bears similarities to a 2002 case involving a pregnant woman who had her breasts exposed by TSA agents in public. Her husband was thrown in the airport jail for complaining about the treatment of his wife.

TSA Hit With Lawsuits As Revolt Explodes

Another lawsuit against the TSA involves Ron Corbett, a businessman and frequent traveler who is so infuriated by the plethora of cases where TSA workers have sexually groped passengers, squeezing breasts and genitals, that he has filed a lawsuit in federal court in Miami requesting an injunction against the TSA to prevent them from touching private areas without reasonable suspicion.

Corbett writes about his lawsuit on a blog entitled TSA Out Of Our Pants.

“Having grown up in New York and personally seeing the smoke rise from the towers that morning in 2001, I know the threat of terrorism is real, and I know we must defend ourselves. This does not mean that the Constitution should be ignored, and indeed, the TSA has plenty of alternative screening procedures that are less invasive. Besides the privacy issue, there have been health issues raised as to the radiation produced by the imaging devices, as well as efficacy issues, with no good studies having been done to show that this imagery makes us any safer,” writes Corbett.

Yet another lawsuit involves The Rutherford Institute, which is suing the feds on behalf of two pilots over the use of full body scanners.

“Those pilots recently refused to go through a controversial whole body imaging scanner, and also refused the alternative, the TSA’s new, more invasive pat downs,” reports CBS 6.

The lawsuit, which personally names both TSA chief John Pistole and DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, argues that the scanners violate the Constitution’s protection against unreasonable searches and seizures under the 4th Amendment.

The TSA could also be hit with a fourth lawsuit if they pursue an $11,000 claim against John Tyner, otherwise known as “don’t touch my junk guy”. Speaking on The Alex Jones Show yesterday, Tyner insisted he would file a counter lawsuit if the TSA continued to pursue him over his refusal to submit to an airport groping.

Another victim, radio host Owen JJ Stone, who had a TSA agent put his hand inside his pants and touch his backside and genitalia, has not indicated he will pursue charges, but has vowed instead to use his treatment as an example of why the TSA needs to be stopped in its tracks or abolished altogether.

Pistole faces another grilling from lawmakers today on Capitol Hill at a Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.


Privacy group EPIC files lawsuit against Dept. Homeland Security to block use of scanners.

http://www.helium.com/items/2016851-tsa-lawsuits-over-naked-body-scanners-and-invasive-pat-down-searches

+ Show Spoiler +
Privacy watchdog Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) sued the Department of Homeland Security this week, asking a federal judge to make the Transportation Security Authority (TSA) stop using body scanners in airports across the United States. EPIC claims that the scanners violate a handful of federal laws, including the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, the Video Voyeurism Prevention Act, the Administrative Procedures Act, the Privacy Act, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Joining TSA as petitioners in the lawsuit are security guru Bruce Schneier, privacy activist Chip Pitts, and Nadhira Al-Khalili, legal counsel for the Counsel on American-Islamic Relations.

Federal lawmakers have also expressed concern about the scanning process, although their complaints center on safety, not privacy. Senators Collins (R-ME), Burr (R-NC), and Coburn (R-OK) signed a letter to DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano noting that concerns about passenger safety "remain unanswered."

In its opening brief, EPIC argues that TSA violated these laws by unilaterally implementing "the most sweeping, the most invasive, and the most unaccountable suspicionless search of American travelers in history." According to EPIC, TSA should not have made such a drastic change to screening procedures for airline passengers without publishing the change in advance and providing the public an opportunity to express its views.

Passengers object to TSA screening practices

Countless travelers have endured the indignity of TSA's full-body scans and pat-downs. In a full-body scan, passengers step through a high resolution backscatter x-ray device which projects an image of their naked bodies to a TSA screener in another location. TSA argues that passenger privacy is protected because the screener who sees the image of the passenger's naked body does not see the passenger in the flesh and does not know the identity of the passenger being screened. In a pat-down search, a TSA screener touches the passenger's body parts through her clothing in an effort to detect any weapons the passenger may have hidden on the body.

Through the Freedom of Information Act, EPIC obtained copies of passenger complaints about the procedure. In one complaint, a rape victim described her humiliation as a male TSA agent touched her body after she declined the full body scan. In another complaint, the father of an eight-year-old boy declared that he would never allow his son to fly because the scanner images amount to child pornography.

California software engineer John Tyner recently declined a body scan at San Diego International Airport and decided not to continue with screening after TSA officials "patted down" his inner thighs. Tyner, who blogs under the pen name Johnny Edge, posted a cell phone video of the incident online. Like a burning ember in dry grass, Tyner's anecdote sparked a firestorm of consumer complaints and public outrage about TSA's invasive screening practices.

Agency law

EPIC's lawsuit may force TSA to temporarily suspend the scans, but it is unlikely to have a lasting effect on the screening process. Before federal agencies like TSA implement substantive changes in policy, they are required to publish the proposed change in the Federal Register and allow a period for the public to comment on or object to the proposed rule. In some cases, formal public hearings must be held before a new rule is implemented. The EPIC petition alleges that TSA bypassed the notice-and-comment process, making the body-scanning rules illegal and unenforceable. If the lawsuit succeeds, TSA could overcome some of the issues raised by EPIC by publishing the rule for notice and comment and then re-implementing body scans.

TSA has responded to the lawsuit by calling out a CBS poll finding that four out of five passengers support the use of body-scanning technology because passengers want assurance that no one on their plane is carrying a weapon. Federal judges have long recognized national security as a public need that supersedes personal privacy rights.

Until the federal court takes action on the lawsuit, TSA will continue to use existing screening tools, including body scans and pat-downs.


But, hey, at least the TSA has a sense of humor, right?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 03:29:44
November 21 2010 03:02 GMT
#454
On November 21 2010 11:37 Krigwin wrote:
TSA employees pull down a woman's blouse, exposing her breasts, and then laugh about it.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/268/650/Lawsuits:TSA_Hit_As_Revolt_Explodes.html

+ Show Spoiler +
The TSA has been hit with a number of lawsuits as the revolt against Big Sis, naked body scanners, and invasive groping measures explodes, with one case involving a woman who had her blouse pulled down in full public view by TSA goons who then proceeded to laugh and joke about her exposed breasts.

Nationwide outrage against the TSA is not only bringing to light new cases of airport abuse, it’s throwing fresh attention on previous incidents that have been going on for years.One of the most disturbing, which is subject to an ongoing lawsuit, involved a 21-year-old college student from Amarillo Texas. The woman was passing through security at Corpus Christi airport on May 29 2008 when she was subjected to “extended search procedures” by the TSA.

“As the TSA agent was frisking plaintiff, the agent pulled the plaintiff’s blouse completely down, exposing plaintiffs’ breasts to everyone in the area,” the lawsuit said. “As would be expected, plaintiff was extremely embarrassed and humiliated.”

TSA workers continued to laugh and joke about the incident “for an extended period of time,” leaving the woman distraught and needing to be consoled. After the woman re-entered the boarding area, TSA workers continued to humiliate her over the incident.

“One male TSA employee expressed to the plaintiff that he wished he would have been there when she came through the first time and that ‘he would just have to watch the video,’” the suit said.

The woman filed an administrative claim against the TSA but was forced to launch a full lawsuit after the agency failed to respond.

The incident bears similarities to a 2002 case involving a pregnant woman who had her breasts exposed by TSA agents in public. Her husband was thrown in the airport jail for complaining about the treatment of his wife.

TSA Hit With Lawsuits As Revolt Explodes

Another lawsuit against the TSA involves Ron Corbett, a businessman and frequent traveler who is so infuriated by the plethora of cases where TSA workers have sexually groped passengers, squeezing breasts and genitals, that he has filed a lawsuit in federal court in Miami requesting an injunction against the TSA to prevent them from touching private areas without reasonable suspicion.

Corbett writes about his lawsuit on a blog entitled TSA Out Of Our Pants.

“Having grown up in New York and personally seeing the smoke rise from the towers that morning in 2001, I know the threat of terrorism is real, and I know we must defend ourselves. This does not mean that the Constitution should be ignored, and indeed, the TSA has plenty of alternative screening procedures that are less invasive. Besides the privacy issue, there have been health issues raised as to the radiation produced by the imaging devices, as well as efficacy issues, with no good studies having been done to show that this imagery makes us any safer,” writes Corbett.

Yet another lawsuit involves The Rutherford Institute, which is suing the feds on behalf of two pilots over the use of full body scanners.

“Those pilots recently refused to go through a controversial whole body imaging scanner, and also refused the alternative, the TSA’s new, more invasive pat downs,” reports CBS 6.

The lawsuit, which personally names both TSA chief John Pistole and DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, argues that the scanners violate the Constitution’s protection against unreasonable searches and seizures under the 4th Amendment.

The TSA could also be hit with a fourth lawsuit if they pursue an $11,000 claim against John Tyner, otherwise known as “don’t touch my junk guy”. Speaking on The Alex Jones Show yesterday, Tyner insisted he would file a counter lawsuit if the TSA continued to pursue him over his refusal to submit to an airport groping.

Another victim, radio host Owen JJ Stone, who had a TSA agent put his hand inside his pants and touch his backside and genitalia, has not indicated he will pursue charges, but has vowed instead to use his treatment as an example of why the TSA needs to be stopped in its tracks or abolished altogether.

Pistole faces another grilling from lawmakers today on Capitol Hill at a Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.


Privacy group EPIC files lawsuit against Dept. Homeland Security to block use of scanners.

http://www.helium.com/items/2016851-tsa-lawsuits-over-naked-body-scanners-and-invasive-pat-down-searches

+ Show Spoiler +
Privacy watchdog Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) sued the Department of Homeland Security this week, asking a federal judge to make the Transportation Security Authority (TSA) stop using body scanners in airports across the United States. EPIC claims that the scanners violate a handful of federal laws, including the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, the Video Voyeurism Prevention Act, the Administrative Procedures Act, the Privacy Act, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Joining TSA as petitioners in the lawsuit are security guru Bruce Schneier, privacy activist Chip Pitts, and Nadhira Al-Khalili, legal counsel for the Counsel on American-Islamic Relations.

Federal lawmakers have also expressed concern about the scanning process, although their complaints center on safety, not privacy. Senators Collins (R-ME), Burr (R-NC), and Coburn (R-OK) signed a letter to DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano noting that concerns about passenger safety "remain unanswered."

In its opening brief, EPIC argues that TSA violated these laws by unilaterally implementing "the most sweeping, the most invasive, and the most unaccountable suspicionless search of American travelers in history." According to EPIC, TSA should not have made such a drastic change to screening procedures for airline passengers without publishing the change in advance and providing the public an opportunity to express its views.

Passengers object to TSA screening practices

Countless travelers have endured the indignity of TSA's full-body scans and pat-downs. In a full-body scan, passengers step through a high resolution backscatter x-ray device which projects an image of their naked bodies to a TSA screener in another location. TSA argues that passenger privacy is protected because the screener who sees the image of the passenger's naked body does not see the passenger in the flesh and does not know the identity of the passenger being screened. In a pat-down search, a TSA screener touches the passenger's body parts through her clothing in an effort to detect any weapons the passenger may have hidden on the body.

Through the Freedom of Information Act, EPIC obtained copies of passenger complaints about the procedure. In one complaint, a rape victim described her humiliation as a male TSA agent touched her body after she declined the full body scan. In another complaint, the father of an eight-year-old boy declared that he would never allow his son to fly because the scanner images amount to child pornography.

California software engineer John Tyner recently declined a body scan at San Diego International Airport and decided not to continue with screening after TSA officials "patted down" his inner thighs. Tyner, who blogs under the pen name Johnny Edge, posted a cell phone video of the incident online. Like a burning ember in dry grass, Tyner's anecdote sparked a firestorm of consumer complaints and public outrage about TSA's invasive screening practices.

Agency law

EPIC's lawsuit may force TSA to temporarily suspend the scans, but it is unlikely to have a lasting effect on the screening process. Before federal agencies like TSA implement substantive changes in policy, they are required to publish the proposed change in the Federal Register and allow a period for the public to comment on or object to the proposed rule. In some cases, formal public hearings must be held before a new rule is implemented. The EPIC petition alleges that TSA bypassed the notice-and-comment process, making the body-scanning rules illegal and unenforceable. If the lawsuit succeeds, TSA could overcome some of the issues raised by EPIC by publishing the rule for notice and comment and then re-implementing body scans.

TSA has responded to the lawsuit by calling out a CBS poll finding that four out of five passengers support the use of body-scanning technology because passengers want assurance that no one on their plane is carrying a weapon. Federal judges have long recognized national security as a public need that supersedes personal privacy rights.

Until the federal court takes action on the lawsuit, TSA will continue to use existing screening tools, including body scans and pat-downs.


But, hey, at least the TSA has a sense of humor, right?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I get why your angry, but what do you propose in place of this? We either hire better TSA personnel, which costs money, which is going to come from ticket prices or taxes, or we laxen security to pre 9/11 standards.

--------------------------------


A) A child molester only molests 10-15% of the kids on your street. Is this acceptable? Is it acceptable if he claims it's for national security? What about if it's just to keep school buses safe? We are talking about 10-ton 40-mph death machines zooming past our houses at speeds which could destroy walls. Millions of children per day are using these school buses. How safe does it need to be?


roflul. srsly bro? Gumlul put it nicely.

I don't even know how to respond to such a low quality, poorly thought out post full of bullshit and sensationalized garbage. Have a nice day.


---------------------------


It is unfortunate you think this way. I've never understood how people go through life thinking, "Whatever the overlords throw at me, I'll just deal with it and ridicule people who desire freedom".

You must live in a completely different world than the one I live in.


Yes revolutionary comrade, we must break free from the shackles of our oppressors and secure a new republic, one devoid of the repressive bonds of embarrassing searches in public airports for the good of the proletariat.

Seriously find a cold bucket of water to douse your head in, might be good for your world view.

How many of you actually fly frequently? I've flown four times in last year international, I'm of Asian ethnicity, and every time coming back to the states I've been patted down. It isn't a big fucking deal. Get some fucking perspective kid. How about you channel your angst towards some actual injustice in the states, like the state of our prisons, our immigration policies, our urban slums, attack recent developments on censorship of the internet and the abandonment of net neutrality (and our even bigger injustices towards other countries), instead of focusing all your revolutionary anger on the fear of having your penis touched during a patdown in airports ... comrade.

It's absolutely hilarious how much you guys lack any sort of perspective.
Too Busy to Troll!
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17274 Posts
November 21 2010 03:18 GMT
#455
It's a shame there isn't anyone actually qualified as a lawyer to talk here. There are so many ridiculous claims from both sides with absolutely no justification. In many cases, there are just absurd comparisons that are not appropriate nor applicable and used solely for incendiary purposes.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
November 21 2010 03:19 GMT
#456
In many cases, there are just absurd comparisons that are not appropriate nor applicable and used solely for incendiary purposes.


Welcome to the internet >.>
Too Busy to Troll!
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
November 21 2010 03:32 GMT
#457
On November 21 2010 12:02 Half wrote:

How many of you actually fly frequently? I've flown four times in last year international, I'm of Asian ethnicity, and every time coming back to the states I've been patted down. It isn't a big fucking deal. Get some fucking perspective kid. How about you channel your angst towards some actual injustice in the states, like the state of our prisons, our immigration policies, our urban slums, attack recent developments on censorship of the internet and the abandonment of net neutrality (and our even bigger injustices towards other countries), instead of focusing all your revolutionary anger on the fear of having your penis touched during a patdown in airports ... comrade.

It's absolutely hilarious how much you guys lack any sort of perspective.


You sound mad lulz

I was referring to a comment, which applied generally, not specifically, is pretty sad to hear. If you want to apply it specifically to airlines and insult people for not taking on a bigger issue (which is the same issue applied generally) that is your argument, not mine.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 03:37:53
November 21 2010 03:35 GMT
#458
On November 21 2010 12:32 Romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2010 12:02 Half wrote:

How many of you actually fly frequently? I've flown four times in last year international, I'm of Asian ethnicity, and every time coming back to the states I've been patted down. It isn't a big fucking deal. Get some fucking perspective kid. How about you channel your angst towards some actual injustice in the states, like the state of our prisons, our immigration policies, our urban slums, attack recent developments on censorship of the internet and the abandonment of net neutrality (and our even bigger injustices towards other countries), instead of focusing all your revolutionary anger on the fear of having your penis touched during a patdown in airports ... comrade.

It's absolutely hilarious how much you guys lack any sort of perspective.


You sound mad lulz

I was referring to a comment, which applied generally, not specifically, is pretty sad to hear. If you want to apply it specifically to airlines and insult people for not taking on a bigger issue (which is the same issue applied generally) that is your argument, not mine.


So in other words you were referring to a comment which you intentionally took out of context to make it sound really pathetic in lieu of any actual point, and you really are a petty little kid fixated with convenience.

KK BRAHE


Seriously, i got taken aside because i had some 2 oz cologne bottle (or maybe because my last name is middle eastern) and i was notified that carrying cologne is not allowed anymore, whereas my texan white friend had 3-4 empty bullet shells he carrys around as a suvernior, but didn't get caught until we went through the metal detector in mexico.

Final Conclusion: Security in mexico is better than in the United States.


I'd assume, by the way this story is told (First U.S. security, then Mexican security), that you were departing for mexico. Well ofc. Its traffic inbound for the U.S. which security is generally fixated towards.
Too Busy to Troll!
Arkansassy
Profile Joined October 2010
358 Posts
November 21 2010 03:40 GMT
#459
On November 20 2010 14:05 GumThief wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2010 13:44 Ferrose wrote:
On November 20 2010 13:36 Dayvan wrote:
On November 20 2010 13:07 Romantic wrote:
On November 20 2010 12:55 Dayvan wrote:
if you don't approve of how a system runs, you don't have to use it.


It is unfortunate you think this way. I've never understood how people go through life thinking, "Whatever the overlords throw at me, I'll just deal with it and ridicule people who desire freedom".

You must live in a completely different world than the one I live in.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but I only have two things to say about this.

You must live in a very socialist world because where I'm from, if people don't pay for your product then it doesn't get sold. In a capitalist society, the niche always gets filled by someone/something else that's worth your two cents.

Freedom doesn't come from bitching, it comes from action. In this country action is manifested by dollar bills.

How the hell am I ridiculing freedom? This whole time I've been professing my desire for the freedom to live. If I wanted to come up with some stupid naive argument blaming one source over some other source to make it sound like I cared, I would just blame the radical fundamentalist groups who caused a necessity for all of this security to begin with. Unfortunately not everyone in this country responds to reason and that's why I insist people protest on the surest way to get attention: not by denying them your confidence but by denying them your checkbook.


But these scanners are mandatory. If you fly, you have to go through them. Saying "then don't use it" is like saying "then don't go anywhere ever."



no they are not mandatory. you can decline and get a pat down instead. from what i've gathered they do not literally touch your junk. most people are just going on the Touch my junk video and running with it.... they stop on your lower abdomen and at your upper leg. some people are just way too sensitive.

We are talking about mega-tonne 747s flying at hundreds of miles per hour above my house, my parents work, our children's school. Thousands of people a day are using these aircrafts. it better be for fucking sure safe to enter.

and talk about profiling or Israeli-styled security as some have pointed out to being the better option. imagine your TSA with sub-machine guns, stopping you when you pull up in your car, stopping you when you enter, stopping you when you pick up your tickets and check your bags. All asking you the same questions, being hassled your entire time at the airport. Sure there are no body scanners, but if that really the better option?

but A) Only about 10-15% of the travelling public are chosen for body scanners.

B) People chosen for the bodyscan/patdowns most of the time were selected even before they reached the airport. If it happens to you once, expect it every time. You are being profiled or selected on purpose.

C) Getting a pat down, if chosen, takes literally 25 seconds. Literally. Nobody wants to touch your penis. Nobody will. If they do, talk to their supervisors, then their supervisors. Get all of their names. It is completely unjust and wrong for this to happen. They are using a general search used by the police, not a prison style -- squat and cough type of shit.

D) You have no idea the amount of weapons and drugs I personally have seized or seen seized from people you would not expect. And from those you would expect. And therein lies the problem.



shorter answer-- get a pat down, its not bad at all. But i bet you you won't be chosen anyways.


So, according to:

A) Only certain people are chosen to suffer this unconstitutional humiliation? How, may I ask, is that protecting homeland security when, according to your statistics, 85-90% of John Q Public walks right past the guards?

B) I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Big Brother is - and has been for years - watching us. And the citizens of the United States (too many of them) follow blindly believing whatever the government brainwashes them to believe.

C) By "nobody" do you mean that sicko who can't get a job as a law enforcement officer so, they get hired by private security companies?

D) We know that a granny's nail file is considered a weapon, oh and the knife that grandpa uses to whittle away at a piece of wood is a deadly weapon as well.

*sighs* I'm frightened at what is going on, but more frightened that people would even try to rationalize it. Of course your history books won't tell you the god-awful truths, so talk to someone's grandparents who survived the Holocaust and then come back and post "hey, it's nothing."


mikado
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia407 Posts
November 21 2010 03:40 GMT
#460
Considering the security personnel are a bunch of uneducated power-hungry shit-kicking bastards, I'd say this is a step back.
perditissimus
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