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On August 01 2012 05:39 theOnslaught wrote:
An Argentinean dog is strong enough to kill a full grown puma, and you think a human stands a chance?, German Sheepards are used for their speed and agility, but they're not a dog "fighting" breed. the Argentinean mastiff on the other hand, as well as other mastiffs, will fuck you up. the pure preassure of the dog bite will not only tear, but break whatever leg its biting, if you think you will gauge its eyes out then think again, the dog will be shaking its head with full force side to side and i would love to see a human try to even get a grip of a dog doing that.
I myself own a Neopolitan Mastiff, there is a reason why you're not even advised to defense train those dogs, they already have it in their blood. If you teach them to fuck people up, the worst things could happen.
Sounds like bullshit. Got any source?
Btw, if you want a real fighting dog that would make this a lot more interesting, look up Anatolian Shepherd Dog.
Or even better, Spanish Mastiffs. Spanish Mastiffs where used by the Spanish Conquistadores to slay the Native Americans. There are Aztec & Incan accounts describing how unbeatable and savage those dogs were.
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Just look at morocho's face and tell me he didnt fight a puma  , if a huge ass cat trained to kill couldnt gouge that dogs eyes out, belive me, you wont either.
![[image loading]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Morochazo_.JPG)
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On August 01 2012 04:34 Hermasaurus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 02:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 02:29 Hermasaurus wrote:On August 01 2012 02:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 02:15 Nachtwind wrote:On August 01 2012 02:04 Lysanias wrote:On August 01 2012 01:58 Nachtwind wrote:
lol @ all that vote for humans that would win with bear hands
battle trained Schäferhunde will went immenditly to the throat no matter how long they need no matter how many pounds you have how much you can fight you will lose no matter what. Also the jaw power (newton) is more then any other dog race.
I was raised with them because my family breed them. And i saw how a sheppard hunted down a sheep. So pls don´t tell me bullshit. lol @ can't read the question properly. We are comparing averages here, not fully trained attack dogs. Also a sheep ... ? right ... Avarge human man of 75-80 kg vs a 30-40 kg running ball of meat, claws and teeth... right... Also a sheep ... ? right ... Right. Period. On August 01 2012 02:11 sc14s wrote:On August 01 2012 01:58 Nachtwind wrote:
lol @ all that vote for humans that would win with bear hands
battle trained Schäferhunde will went immenditly to the throat no matter how long they need no matter how many pounds you have how much you can fight you will lose no matter what. Also the jaw power (newton) is more then any other dog race.
I was raised with them because my family breed them. And i saw how a sheppard hunted down a sheep. So pls don´t tell me bullshit. reading comprehension, dost thou have it? Me have dis you mean dis y know o? "You and a German Sheppard are put into a regular sized room and you must fight until one of you dies. The dog will immediately attack you (once released) and it will be set on killing you. You have no weapons, and are wearing no protective clothing, just regular street clothes. You can't use anything that isn't part of you as a weapon. Given this situation, who do you think would win the fight?" Average human male vs average dog. Human wins probably around 95% of the time. Humans have higher intelligence and would evaluate how to fight the dog. Like keeping distance with kicks, letting the dog bite your arm and going for the choke etc. The way dogs attack are very one dimensional and easy to read, dogs are not meant to fight/hunt 1 on 1 they are pack animals and have evolved around that basis. They are most effective at killing in groups, one distracts while others circle and jump in from different angles. When attacking from just one angle they are not nearly as efficient. Human vs Highly trained breed to kill giant dog beast... well the dog probably wins that one pretty ez. Your average Human doesn't "evaluate" how to fight. If you've ever see 2 average, untrained male or females fight it's usually two people swinging uncontrollably. Now I know among the tl community there are anomalies. Like I'm sure most this community is 3rd degree black belt or better. Your average human should be able to(While the dog is still leashed) evaluate the situation and adjust, if we couldn't do that we wouldn't have survived and evolved. Even without evaluating how to the fight, the human should still be able to figure out easily how to survive. If it lunges at me natural instinct kick it etc. False, we survived and evolved because there is synergy among humans that eccentuates intellect, stength, agility, etc. Evolution of Ideas. Strength in numbers. If we took every male adult in this world and put him up against a ruthless pitbull or doberman the dog would win more often than not. However (This is where I really go in on ya.) if we take ALL of the Humans and ALL of the Dogs in this world the humans would bide enough time to develop weapons strong enough to enslave the vicious beasts.
This only happens because the average modern human is fat and out of shape. By contrast, humans who are physically fit and experienced fighters can easily annihilate any dog that does not significantly outweigh them.
On August 01 2012 06:10 theOnslaught wrote:Just look at morocho's face and tell me he didnt fight a puma , if a huge ass cat trained to kill couldnt gouge that dogs eyes out, belive me, you wont either. + Show Spoiler +
A huge ass cat doesn't have the physical advantages (insane endurance via thermoregulation, varied above-average forms of locomotion, uniquely evolved musculature for throwing, very high agility/range of motion, some of the densest back/leg muscles of any land mammal, unusually sharp senses, or even the 300 lbs of weight) or the fighting skill of a human that's actually in shape.
![[image loading]](http://teamlovatobjj.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Alistair_Overeem_large.jpg)
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Humans don't have sharp fangs and nails for tearing flesh and muscle either, nor they have the huge amounts of pain endurance dogs have. There are documented stories of dogs having their insides out from fighting bulls, yet still fighting until their deaths.
Humans have both an advantage and a disadvantage in having bigger brains, yeah you're smarter but that can be a double edge sword, as soon as you see all the blood and your flesh being pulled apart your brain will start to panic as soon as you start thinking about dying this way. (eaten alive)
Im a huge MMA fan, and i can tell you that only a big-ass experienced fighter like Overeem would be able to pull it off.
Lesnar is actually a great example on how fear can put you in trouble, if you follow MMA you would know that Lesnar doesnt like getting hit, and as soon as he does, and feels the pain, he starts fucking up and throwing his strategy out of the window. Same for jiu jitsu fighters, and i'll quote something a great fighter said (along those lines): "Its not the same to submit someone when you're getting hit in your face".
Dogs are built to fight with their body to the death, as well as other animals that hunt their preys do.
We humans are not, we're fragile, weaker, slower than animals, and that's why we don't hunt with our own hands.
You're like this dude that compared himself with "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacco_Macacco]Jaco Macacco" when monkeys are proven to be stronger, more agile, sharper theets than human, there is no comparison on a monkey beating a dog by tearing their throats with their teeth, than a human, we would never be able to pull that off.
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Really? Then how come there are so many articles of police dogs getting killed by criminals trying to escape them? I guess they're all top-MMA fighters.
You are all seriously underestimating what people can do when they're in a life-or-death situation. Panic and pain only work in certain conditions, when it's do or die, your body releases a bucket-load of chemicals to make sure you can ignore pain and do what you need to do to get out of the situation.
If you ever got attacked by a dog you'd know that you actually don't feel any unbearable pain while he's biting your arm, the pain comes afterwards. But w/e.
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I'd say that the human wins, the dog has a couple of weak points such as it's ears and tail.
Biting the ear of a dog will make it recoil, the tip of the tail is also extremely sensetive... but there is a surefire way to kill a dog...
Offer up your arm "the dog will bite it, and lock down on it".
Then bash in the dogs nose with your fist, this will kill the dog since you will be pushing a small sized bonefragment up the nose into the brain of the dog, causing instant death.
Even though the dog may in some cases be physically more fit and have its instincts more intact then your regular human, humans still have an intellect that we can use to turn the dogs strenghts into their weaknesses.
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why do you people care, exactly? The Question is very hypothetical and even if if it could be answered, which it cannot be, whats the benefit? Well however, i think it´s a bad idea to compare a human to a german shepherd or pitbull. Every dog is trained and bred for something specific. You should compare a human to a wolf, but no wolf could be forced to fight a human without beeing threatened, so 
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I think the person would win as long as he/she doesnt panic. The person will probably get some pretty nasty wounds, but should be able to hold the dog down and choke it or something.
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I think it depends on the person's physique and mentality, I would personally instantly try to dodge the dog lunging at me and try to get it in a headlock. It's a dog's natural instinct to go for the neck, and if that happens, you're fucked.
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While you're being bitten, that's all the dog can do, so while he has his jaws around you, you just keep hurting him because he can't bite and do something else at the same time.
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I know i would destroy the dog with a very simple trick (i think i'm average in weight and length)
Just act like you want to hit him with your fist, the normal reaction for a dog (only possible reaction actually)
is to bite towards the hand attacking him, or to move his head to the hand attacking him.
This opens up the dogs belly area (and balls), and you just kick him there with all your force.
Even an average (or below) person, can perform this trick and win.
If you manage to keep standing on your feet, i believe the human will always win, because of momentum (leggs).
If you fall over (because the dog jumps on you and you fail to kick his belly) you are screwed :-D
We also should keep in mind that the average person is wearing shoes, which is a big advantage.
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ahah funny I asked myself that question as I always was kinda scared of dogs (got bite when I was like 6 by a German Sheppard, he was only playing tho I wouldnt be alive if he wasnt, yay for retards who let their dog run around in a public park).
It depends on many factors, thing most of people answering didnt consider is : the human would probably kill the dog, but bleed to death after that, a dog would easily get a good cut on your arm / neck / leg, and get to an artery or something. So you would, under fear and rage, probably knock the dog out and kill him, but "fighting" dogs dont fuck around tho, I'd say most of the time it would be a "draw", both would die, a martial artist or a really heavy guy might knock the dog out right away, but that would be like 10% of guys I think
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On August 01 2012 12:07 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 04:34 Hermasaurus wrote:On August 01 2012 02:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 02:29 Hermasaurus wrote:On August 01 2012 02:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 02:15 Nachtwind wrote:On August 01 2012 02:04 Lysanias wrote:On August 01 2012 01:58 Nachtwind wrote:
lol @ all that vote for humans that would win with bear hands
battle trained Schäferhunde will went immenditly to the throat no matter how long they need no matter how many pounds you have how much you can fight you will lose no matter what. Also the jaw power (newton) is more then any other dog race.
I was raised with them because my family breed them. And i saw how a sheppard hunted down a sheep. So pls don´t tell me bullshit. lol @ can't read the question properly. We are comparing averages here, not fully trained attack dogs. Also a sheep ... ? right ... Avarge human man of 75-80 kg vs a 30-40 kg running ball of meat, claws and teeth... right... Also a sheep ... ? right ... Right. Period. On August 01 2012 02:11 sc14s wrote:On August 01 2012 01:58 Nachtwind wrote:
lol @ all that vote for humans that would win with bear hands
battle trained Schäferhunde will went immenditly to the throat no matter how long they need no matter how many pounds you have how much you can fight you will lose no matter what. Also the jaw power (newton) is more then any other dog race.
I was raised with them because my family breed them. And i saw how a sheppard hunted down a sheep. So pls don´t tell me bullshit. reading comprehension, dost thou have it? Me have dis you mean dis y know o? "You and a German Sheppard are put into a regular sized room and you must fight until one of you dies. The dog will immediately attack you (once released) and it will be set on killing you. You have no weapons, and are wearing no protective clothing, just regular street clothes. You can't use anything that isn't part of you as a weapon. Given this situation, who do you think would win the fight?" Average human male vs average dog. Human wins probably around 95% of the time. Humans have higher intelligence and would evaluate how to fight the dog. Like keeping distance with kicks, letting the dog bite your arm and going for the choke etc. The way dogs attack are very one dimensional and easy to read, dogs are not meant to fight/hunt 1 on 1 they are pack animals and have evolved around that basis. They are most effective at killing in groups, one distracts while others circle and jump in from different angles. When attacking from just one angle they are not nearly as efficient. Human vs Highly trained breed to kill giant dog beast... well the dog probably wins that one pretty ez. Your average Human doesn't "evaluate" how to fight. If you've ever see 2 average, untrained male or females fight it's usually two people swinging uncontrollably. Now I know among the tl community there are anomalies. Like I'm sure most this community is 3rd degree black belt or better. Your average human should be able to(While the dog is still leashed) evaluate the situation and adjust, if we couldn't do that we wouldn't have survived and evolved. Even without evaluating how to the fight, the human should still be able to figure out easily how to survive. If it lunges at me natural instinct kick it etc. False, we survived and evolved because there is synergy among humans that eccentuates intellect, stength, agility, etc. Evolution of Ideas. Strength in numbers. If we took every male adult in this world and put him up against a ruthless pitbull or doberman the dog would win more often than not. However (This is where I really go in on ya.) if we take ALL of the Humans and ALL of the Dogs in this world the humans would bide enough time to develop weapons strong enough to enslave the vicious beasts. This only happens because the average modern human is fat and out of shape. By contrast, humans who are physically fit and experienced fighters can easily annihilate any dog that does not significantly outweigh them. Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 06:10 theOnslaught wrote:Just look at morocho's face and tell me he didnt fight a puma , if a huge ass cat trained to kill couldnt gouge that dogs eyes out, belive me, you wont either. + Show Spoiler + A huge ass cat doesn't have the physical advantages (insane endurance via thermoregulation, varied above-average forms of locomotion, uniquely evolved musculature for throwing, very high agility/range of motion, some of the densest back/leg muscles of any land mammal, unusually sharp senses, or even the 300 lbs of weight) or the fighting skill of a human that's actually in shape.
Are you even trying have a debate over the actual OP or are you just coming up with your own paramaters?
Earlier in the thread you are talking about what Grandmaster Martial Artists are capable of linking videos and now you've actually wandered into pictures of Brock Lesnar to bolster your arguement which apparently includes "Insane Endurance via Thermoregulation" ETC all to prove that humans are superior to a "Huge Ass Cat".
First of all when talking about skill please don't associate Brock Lesnar because he's been a bum since he graduated college. Secondly you quoted me and proceeded to cherry pick the fact that "Modern human's are fat and out of shape but experienced fighters can easily annihilate any dog that does not significantly outweigh them."
NOW IF YOU READ THE OP, IT PRESENTS IT IN A QUESTION THAT IS FIT FOR EVERYONE AS IT TARGETS
"YOU" IN THE POLL/DEBATE. So the only way your argument has any fucking relevance is if the only people who sat down, read and participated in the poll/debate were Grandmaster Martial Artists with Insane Endurance via Thermoregulation. However, that isn't the case.
Next time when you state that "This happens only because most most humans are fat and out of shape." <---Just stop there. You don't need to lend us a history lesson on the untapped strength and technique of a human.
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On August 03 2012 07:48 Hermasaurus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 12:07 sunprince wrote:On August 01 2012 04:34 Hermasaurus wrote:On August 01 2012 02:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 02:29 Hermasaurus wrote:On August 01 2012 02:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 02:15 Nachtwind wrote:On August 01 2012 02:04 Lysanias wrote:On August 01 2012 01:58 Nachtwind wrote:
lol @ all that vote for humans that would win with bear hands
battle trained Schäferhunde will went immenditly to the throat no matter how long they need no matter how many pounds you have how much you can fight you will lose no matter what. Also the jaw power (newton) is more then any other dog race.
I was raised with them because my family breed them. And i saw how a sheppard hunted down a sheep. So pls don´t tell me bullshit. lol @ can't read the question properly. We are comparing averages here, not fully trained attack dogs. Also a sheep ... ? right ... Avarge human man of 75-80 kg vs a 30-40 kg running ball of meat, claws and teeth... right... Also a sheep ... ? right ... Right. Period. On August 01 2012 02:11 sc14s wrote:On August 01 2012 01:58 Nachtwind wrote:
lol @ all that vote for humans that would win with bear hands
battle trained Schäferhunde will went immenditly to the throat no matter how long they need no matter how many pounds you have how much you can fight you will lose no matter what. Also the jaw power (newton) is more then any other dog race.
I was raised with them because my family breed them. And i saw how a sheppard hunted down a sheep. So pls don´t tell me bullshit. reading comprehension, dost thou have it? Me have dis you mean dis y know o? "You and a German Sheppard are put into a regular sized room and you must fight until one of you dies. The dog will immediately attack you (once released) and it will be set on killing you. You have no weapons, and are wearing no protective clothing, just regular street clothes. You can't use anything that isn't part of you as a weapon. Given this situation, who do you think would win the fight?" Average human male vs average dog. Human wins probably around 95% of the time. Humans have higher intelligence and would evaluate how to fight the dog. Like keeping distance with kicks, letting the dog bite your arm and going for the choke etc. The way dogs attack are very one dimensional and easy to read, dogs are not meant to fight/hunt 1 on 1 they are pack animals and have evolved around that basis. They are most effective at killing in groups, one distracts while others circle and jump in from different angles. When attacking from just one angle they are not nearly as efficient. Human vs Highly trained breed to kill giant dog beast... well the dog probably wins that one pretty ez. Your average Human doesn't "evaluate" how to fight. If you've ever see 2 average, untrained male or females fight it's usually two people swinging uncontrollably. Now I know among the tl community there are anomalies. Like I'm sure most this community is 3rd degree black belt or better. Your average human should be able to(While the dog is still leashed) evaluate the situation and adjust, if we couldn't do that we wouldn't have survived and evolved. Even without evaluating how to the fight, the human should still be able to figure out easily how to survive. If it lunges at me natural instinct kick it etc. False, we survived and evolved because there is synergy among humans that eccentuates intellect, stength, agility, etc. Evolution of Ideas. Strength in numbers. If we took every male adult in this world and put him up against a ruthless pitbull or doberman the dog would win more often than not. However (This is where I really go in on ya.) if we take ALL of the Humans and ALL of the Dogs in this world the humans would bide enough time to develop weapons strong enough to enslave the vicious beasts. This only happens because the average modern human is fat and out of shape. By contrast, humans who are physically fit and experienced fighters can easily annihilate any dog that does not significantly outweigh them. On August 01 2012 06:10 theOnslaught wrote:Just look at morocho's face and tell me he didnt fight a puma , if a huge ass cat trained to kill couldnt gouge that dogs eyes out, belive me, you wont either. + Show Spoiler + A huge ass cat doesn't have the physical advantages (insane endurance via thermoregulation, varied above-average forms of locomotion, uniquely evolved musculature for throwing, very high agility/range of motion, some of the densest back/leg muscles of any land mammal, unusually sharp senses, or even the 300 lbs of weight) or the fighting skill of a human that's actually in shape. Are you even trying have a debate over the actual OP or are you just coming up with your own paramaters? Earlier in the thread you are talking about what Grandmaster Martial Artists are capable of linking videos and now you've actually wandered into pictures of Brock Lesnar to bolster your arguement which apparently includes "Insane Endurance via Thermoregulation" ETC all to prove that humans are superior to a "Huge Ass Cat".
My argument is that humans who are in shape are far larger and stronger than your supposed "huge ass cat" (which weighs substantially less and has far less muscle).
On August 03 2012 07:48 Hermasaurus wrote:
First of all when talking about skill please don't associate Brock Lesnar because he's been a bum since he graduated college. Secondly you quoted me and proceeded to cherry pick the fact that "Modern human's are fat and out of shape but experienced fighters can easily annihilate any dog that does not significantly outweigh them."
This entire paragraph makes no sense. Brock Lesnar became a skill mixed martial artist after college, and only declined due to his bout with diverticulitis. How is pointing out that in-shape humans can beat in-shape dogs a form of cherry picking? Everyone appears to be assuming that the German shepherd is healthy, in shape, and trained at attacking, while the human is an average Joe. This is ridiculous, because any human in the state of nature is far more dangerous than a dog, even while unarmed.
On August 03 2012 07:48 Hermasaurus wrote:
NOW IF YOU READ THE OP, IT PRESENTS IT IN A QUESTION THAT IS FIT FOR EVERYONE AS IT TARGETS
"YOU" IN THE POLL/DEBATE. So the only way your argument has any fucking relevance is if the only people who sat down, read and participated in the poll/debate were Grandmaster Martial Artists with Insane Endurance via Thermoregulation. However, that isn't the case.
Your reading comprehension sucks. Humans as a species have insane endurance compared to other animals. Most people just don't realize it because they're are horrendously out of shape. All of the traits I listed are characteristics of humans in general that demonstrate our physical advantages compared to other animals.
On August 03 2012 07:48 Hermasaurus wrote:
Next time when you state that "This happens only because most most humans are fat and out of shape." <---Just stop there. You don't need to lend us a history lesson on the untapped strength and technique of a human.
Apparently I do, since geniuses like you don't seem to understand the relevance of an equal competition. Throwing an average fat housedog and an average overweight American would be a stupider weigh of measuring it, but it would still be a fair competition like a human fighter and an attack dog. By contrast, your notion of using in-shape attack dogs against average people is obviously stupid.
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trained spartan barehands vs trained german shepherd?
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EPT
