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Hi mr. hypocrite.
Yes I've come in contact with many dogs and I know that I can own an normal dog no problem. Even a shrimp knows how to run away. Ok? What relevance does this have? Running away isn't going to save it.
As for intelligence, no a dog won't go absolute nuts on someone, but it won't know the weaknesses. It will have a general idea (legs/face), but it won't know exactly how to go about attacking those areas. Humans know how to incapacitate a dog.
1v1 =/= pack hunting so who the fuck cares about pack hunting. Yes my usage of strafing was incorrect, but the point remains that dogs do not move sideways very well.
It has also become quite apparent that you are adamant that there is no way a person could ever kill a dog so there is no reason for me to continue arguing the same points.[/QUOTE]
How do you incapacitate a dog, mr. "hurricane." I'm sure your vast experience coming in contact with yorkies, shitzus, and maltese have qualified you as one heck of a dog-fighting expert. Even if your "normal" dog doesn't exist, since there's no such thing as a "normal" dog breed.
A trained fighting dog knows damn well how to take people down. They do NOT go for your f-ing face and legs. That shows how much you know right there. They go for the neck #1. Other than that they will just bite what they can to knock you off balance so they can go for the throat again. Dogs always go for the throat, and will attack other areas only to draw defenses away from the throat. They are not at all stupid in a fight and can out-think a human. I've seen dogs trick people with feints and jukes just trying to chase after a soccer ball, much less to attack.
And your point sucks. That's why your usage of strafing was incorrect. Your point does not remain at all. Dogs have absolutely no trouble moving sideways. They sidestep just like people do. It's not like they have frikkin hooves here. Dogs have a much better center of balance than humans, that is scientifically proven fact. They also have no problem circling prey and maneuvering. They leap and duck and dodge no problem. You are talking about dogs like they're some kind of rickety-legged, retarded beasts that waddle around clumsily.
Lastly, I've stated in previous posts that a well-trained human can beat a well-trained dog. A well-trained dog will absolutely annihilate the average person. And the average person versus the average dog is vastly in favor of the dog. Why? Your "average" person is not equipped to fight mentally or physically. Most dogs are. They learn a lot about fighting even as puppies. The vast majority of a dog's puppy time is spent fighting its siblings and learning what angles to attack from and how to avoid getting hit. That all happens during their formative growth. I know of very few average humans who have similar childhoods.
Of course an "average" dog for some people is a poodle. A poodle is not going to win a fight versus much.
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On May 27 2008 01:59 Hurricane wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2008 01:51 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Why are we higher up in the food chain? Because we are SMARTER THAN DOGS. Dog's ignore pain and do what they know in fights; they attack. They're going to ignore any pain you inflict, thus letting you break the shit it needs to kill you. Also, have you ever seen a dog strafe? No. You know why? They can't. They don't have the balance or the joints to move sideways effectively, unlike us.
Fighting a dog unarmed is not a symptom of higher intelligence, and is certainly not how we got to the top of the foodchain. Fighting the dog with a gun would be more our style. I know fighting unarmed is dumb, but that is the situation we are put in. We're higher up because we can analyze a situation and find the best way to go about succeeding. We know how to kill a dog in the safest and most efficient way, a dog is going to rush and do whatever it can without thinking.
Dogs dont just attack without thinking they analyze the situation and make the most effective decision. So dont think its just gonna run in and bite your leg and call it fuckin good from there. No man that dog is gonna run up and bite you in the closest peice of your body then move on to the vital parts. For example: The dog runs at you, instinctively you throw your arms out to defend yourself, the dog will then take the nearest peice of meat (your arm) and latch on. After he gains an advantage against you (which he will almost without a doubt) he will then move on to your neck most likely or your face. Dogs arent as dumb as people think, they have fighting instincts that humans cannot understand.
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On May 27 2008 08:35 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Where do you get this information? Don't you think a deer's 'pain threshold' (whatever that means) is less than a man's, when it's being attacked by a predator? Don't they just instinctively give up once they know they're down, and pass out? I think it's the Vagus Nerve that does that. Actually... to be honest I don't see how one animals pain threshold is at all different from another's. All animals give up when they know they're done for, and all animals fight against all odds when they're in danger and they think they have a chance... Humans aren't different. + Show Spoiler +Activation of the vagus nerve typically leads to a reduction in heart rate, blood pressure, or both. This occurs commonly in the setting of gastrointestinal illness such as viral gastroenteritis or acute cholecystitis, or in response to other stimuli, including carotid sinus massage, Valsalva maneuver, or pain from any cause, particularly having blood drawn. When the circulatory changes are great enough, vasovagal syncope results. Relative dehydration tends to amplify these responses.
Excessive activation of the vagal nerve during emotional stress, which is a parasympathetic overcompensation of a strong sympathetic nervous system response associated with stress, can also cause vasovagal syncope because of a sudden drop in blood pressure and heart rate. Vasovagal syncope affects young children and women more often. It can also lead to temporary loss of bladder control under moments of extreme fear.
Research has shown that women who have complete transection of the spinal cord can experience orgasms through the vagus nerve, which can go from the uterus, cervix and probably the vagina to the brain. ROFL at the last note... so random.
If you include the entire Animal kingdom that includes things like frogs and starfish and such. They can lose limbs and regenerate them no problem. They don't faint when they lose a limb either. I'm not quite sure you could say the same for a human. Look at fish as well. Put a giant hook through someone's face and see how they respond. Some fish, like a marlin, can fight a hook for DAYS. Do you know many people who will sit there and struggle for over 24 hours, coping with blood loss, pain, and the physical exertion of playing tug of war with a hook through their face??
Humans aren't "weak" per se. But we ARE vastly unequipped to deal with most animals on a physical level. We are a social animal and we are a cognitive one. We use tools and cooperation to get ahead. We don't go silverback rampaging in the wilderness, slaying everything up and down the food chain.
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Don't underestimate poodles. They're big and energetic hunting dogs, and responsible for their share of carnage.
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I dont think anyone here understands the concept, AN AVERAGE HUMAN VS DOG.
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If anyone can choose a fair representation of what the "average male" is. It has to be someone succesfull, like GAP.
To promote their "casual cloth magazine section" they had to illustrate it with the "casual average male" , so its a fact that he is the average male.
VS
To be fair i typed Dog on google and selected an image randomly.
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United States24680 Posts
On May 27 2008 08:49 ilj.psa wrote:
To be fair i typed Dog on google and selected an image randomly. I did the same thing and got
That guy'd probably still lose.
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I use to do martial arts training. One of the fundamental of the training was a position called "horse stance." It was your fighting position. You kind of bend your knees and squat a bit to lower your center of gravity for balance. It was tiring because my body isn't created to stand in an unnatural position. If a person stand perfectly straight, a mere push and you'll fall over off balance unable to do anything while trying to recover.
Dogs, guess what their natural stance are? 
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ahaha
18 pages is incredibly awesome...
-If the people are from my town in Indiana, they're dead ez/
But... I still have to say person, but probably seriously hurt. There are some dogs though that just honestly make me nervous. I'm not sure how vicious the average german shepherd is, but some of those police/security dogs are trained pretty hardcore.
So, voted person, but didn't care enough to see if this huge effing thread has figured out if it's one of those badass killing dogs or not (because really... are those 'average'?)
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A related question: What kind of dog would you be most afraid to fight?
Consider the dog to be fit according to its breed.
I'd probably wouldn't want to fight a pit bull.
Oversized jaws are scary.
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um i'd be afraid of, in this order:
1. rottweiler
2. german shepherd
3. doberman pinscher
4. kunming dog
5. american pitbull
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Yeah, everyone is rambling here about what their granddad told them and so on. Someone posted earlier that a dog bit the head off some kid. LoL.
I have hands-on experience. I have fought off a German Shepherd. I don't know what he was pissed about but he attacked me, and I tried to struggle for about 10 seconds with him biting my left arm until we dropped to the floor. Falling on him alone made him squeal, I didn't have to do one of the so many things I could have done to win:
a) Gouge eyes out. How can a dog defend this while he's biting your arm? He can't. Good. Instant win yes. Arguments against this = 0.
b) Try to stand on him with knee/elbow - might be harder to do if he's struggling on the ground, but once you've got there he's toast. Weight alone will break ribs, crush internal organs and whatnot.
Dogs will NOT GO FOR THE NECK UNLESS specifically trained to do so. If the human knows that he's fighting to the death he'll figure out a way to kill the dog, dogs can't figure out how to kill people, so they'll stick to mauling.
There have been a few posts here from people who have fought dogs. Who have actually FOUGHT DOGS, not have heard stories and such. They all said it's highly unlikely that a GS will win.
Now if you're turning this argument to: what if the human is a girl, what if they're obese and incredibly stupid, then yeah, dogs could probably injure a person hard enough for him/her to die because of the injuries.
But anyone who thinks that a HEALTHY GERMAN SHEPHERD will kill a HEALTHY MALE, both not trained in any form, then you are severely underestimating human race. We didn't always have guns you know, and metal weapons came in pretty late too. It's "figuring out stuff" that made us the dominant species.
And don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to fight a GS. I'm pretty sure he'd make me regret it. But it's clear that everyone here who thinks the dog will win is basing that on being a pet owner/stories/movies about police dogs mauling rubber suits. If you've ever actually fought a dog you'd realize it's not a freaking tiger.
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It says "win" not kill btw in the OP.
Dogs will go for the neck if they can get it. And if you try to gouge its eyes, it lets go. I've raised numerous dogs and seen numerous dogs attack people. But you're right, a trained dog is vastly different from an "average" dog. Although, you're basing all your argument on ONE experience versus ONE dog. Did you kill the dog? What happened after you hit the floor? I've raised many dogs, and I don't think I've ever seen one of them allow me to fall on them and knock them to the ground unless it had been established beforehand that we were playing around.
Btw, the first tools were made of stone not metal, and we had those for a very long time. Beyond that, humans worked together in groups, not as single predators, through the vast majority of our history. In terms of Homo Sapien Sapien history, we've definitely always been social animals and relied on that to get anywhere in the food chain. Also, humans in the past were prey animals. We were eaten by animals rather frequently and relied on eating roots and foraging for most of our food, not by taking down animals.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On May 27 2008 09:29 ItsYoungLee wrote:
A related question: What kind of dog would you be most afraid to fight?
Consider the dog to be fit according to its breed.
I'd probably wouldn't want to fight a pit bull.
Oversized jaws are scary.
The Cordoba Fighting Dog originated in Córdoba, Argentina. The breed had such strong aggression toward other dogs that the males and females would rather fight than mate. In addition, many members of this breed died in the dog fighting pits contributing to the breed's extinction.
lol
Probably:
Presa Canaria
any mastiff breed
Fila Brasileiro
Rott
Great Dane
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On May 27 2008 08:43 Sp1ralArch1tect wrote:
Dogs arent as dumb as people think, they have fighting instincts that humans cannot understand.
I think this needs to be read over and over again before somebody posts "strategies" to defeat a dog. I still say it would be a close fight, with the dog victorious.
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person ez. kind of depends on the person, but i think the average person can ez a dog.
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Person would win, how is this a debate.
A person has:
weight advantage,
height advantage,
ability to reason,
ability to use arms, legs and even mouth as opposed to a dog who can only use its mouth.
As for a dog's fighting instinct, you must mean his survival instinct, which also includes running away if it feels it must. A person goes in there knowing it's a life or death situation, a dog goes in there feeling it wants to fuck that person up but who is to say what the limit of pain a human must inflict on a dog before it whimpers and runs away.
Go ahead and pull specific cases where a dog may win out of your ass - to whatever you may argue my response is get over it.
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On May 27 2008 10:18 EGoldman wrote:
It says "win" not kill btw in the OP.
Dogs will go for the neck if they can get it. And if you try to gouge its eyes, it lets go. I've raised numerous dogs and seen numerous dogs attack people. But you're right, a trained dog is vastly different from an "average" dog. Although, you're basing all your argument on ONE experience versus ONE dog. Did you kill the dog? What happened after you hit the floor? I've raised many dogs, and I don't think I've ever seen one of them allow me to fall on them and knock them to the ground unless it had been established beforehand that we were playing around.
Btw, the first tools were made of stone not metal, and we had those for a very long time. Beyond that, humans worked together in groups, not as single predators, through the vast majority of our history. In terms of Homo Sapien Sapien history, we've definitely always been social animals and relied on that to get anywhere in the food chain. Also, humans in the past were prey animals. We were eaten by animals rather frequently and relied on eating roots and foraging for most of our food, not by taking down animals.
Well, yes, one experience vs one dog I've actually fought for a good 20-25 seconds. As I said, it let go after I fell on it and backed off. However, one experience > no experience, and that's what most people here have.
Also, I asked my friend about this and he said "Well if you put an average german shepherd and an average human in a room, they'll both die of thirst in about 3-4 days, but the dog will probably outlast so I'm voting for the dog." So yeah, dogs aren't going to go for the kill, and humans aren't that good at fighting off wild beasts anymore.
And I've been bitten at least 5 times by dogs I didn't own. It blows. But unless it's a really powerful dog (rottweilter, pit-bull, mastiff), I doubt they'll be able to kill me. Especially if I'm expecting a life/death struggle, like the OP says "You and a German Sheppard are put into a regular sized room and you must fight until one of you dies.". I know it's probably not easy killing a dog, but a human going for the eyes/genitalia/stomp/kick/choke will probably have more luck than a dog that isn't trained to go for the neck.
Also, I know metal came late, before that it was sticks and stones. But men figured out how to use those to kill animals. We only hunted in packs to take down bigger prey. A single dog never posed a threat to the human species. Wolf packs, sure, but dogs are domesticated for a reason. WE FREAKING PWN!
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I've been attacked by a fairly small Rottweiler before. (And by fairly small, probably still like 70+ pounds). Was about 4 years ago, I was probably like 5'7", 130 pounds (Asian).
Basically, I got way lucky, and it jumped and bit at my arm but only got my coat sleeve (winter so fairly heavy coat). The point is that when it "shook" my arm, it nearly tore my sleeve completely off and just about fucking dislocated my shoulder. I went down to the ground, it tore off a chunk of my sleeve and ran off without fucking killing me. Dunno what it was after really.
I'm a small guy, so bigger guys might have fared better, but I think if a decent sized dog like a German Shepherd got a hold of even your arm or leg it could pull you down pretty easily and fuck you up.
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