EPTThis video is interesting by the fact that it is probably the first one to capture the same event from both sides simultaneously. GoPro video is from the AFU soldier, UAV video - Russian/DPR (action is reportedly happening under Peski, soldier with GoPro is riding on the rear BMP).
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 217
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Ardias
Russian Federation605 Posts
This video is interesting by the fact that it is probably the first one to capture the same event from both sides simultaneously. GoPro video is from the AFU soldier, UAV video - Russian/DPR (action is reportedly happening under Peski, soldier with GoPro is riding on the rear BMP). | ||
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Sermokala
United States13738 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21353 Posts
On September 12 2022 08:04 Sermokala wrote: +1I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't want any combat footage to just be posted without the very least spoiler code and a NSFW warning pretty explicit there. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation605 Posts
On September 12 2022 08:04 Sermokala wrote: I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't want any combat footage to just be posted without the very least spoiler code and a NSFW warning pretty explicit there. I assumed that Youtube does not allow NSFW content being posted. But I got you, moved video under spoiler. Didn't see anything particularly disturbing on the video either. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13738 Posts
The Ukrainians could still undertake limited mechanized offenses with the Humvees they got recently (those things were designed specifically for this fight) but the same issues that plagued Russia in the north at the start of the war will plague Ukrainian offenses until it becomes freezing. Thats why Russia hasn't mobilized yet and I don't think they will for a few more months at the earliest. The troops will need a lot of time to get organized and retrained only to be thrown into a frozen battlefield with even more strained logistics than they have now. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On September 12 2022 08:23 Sermokala wrote: We're weeks away from the fall rains turning every non road terrain into mud and the rivers turning into deathtraps for any vehicle or human being. Even if its not water mud can still chill the human body and wreck electronics. The Ukrainians could still undertake limited mechanized offenses with the Humvees they got recently (those things were designed specifically for this fight) but the same issues that plagued Russia in the north at the start of the war will plague Ukrainian offenses until it becomes freezing. Thats why Russia hasn't mobilized yet and I don't think they will for a few more months at the earliest. The troops will need a lot of time to get organized and retrained only to be thrown into a frozen battlefield with even more strained logistics than they have now. The war started in February and the troops that took part in the invasion reported frostbite, and even deaths due to hypothermia. So it seems regardless of the weather it is on Ukraine's side. Especially since winter supplies is being supplied by the US, Norway, and Canada. So unless Russia has completely revamped and reformed their logistics strategy in the last 6 months it could be a very difficult winter for them. Meanwhile Ukraine appears to get stronger by the week, even during the offensive. As for full mobilization that takes months, even in modern times. Then what about training and so on. Worse mobilization means the populace of Moscow, and St. Petersburg. Now imagine the casualty rates incredibly high from the two most important cities attacking and defending against a highly motivated force with modern weapons etc. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
There's also reportedly already fighting happening in/near Lysychansk and Severodonetsk. Ukraine has done all of this without air support, which I considered almost impossible. ![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/64ba34391c8380b9fecc9c929148b1d7.jpg) | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation605 Posts
On September 12 2022 08:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The war started in February and the troops that took part in the invasion reported frostbite, and even deaths due to hypothermia. So it seems regardless of the weather it is on Ukraine's side. Especially since winter supplies is being supplied by the US, Norway, and Canada. So unless Russia has completely revamped and reformed their logistics strategy in the last 6 months it could be a very difficult winter for them. Meanwhile Ukraine appears to get stronger by the week, even during the offensive. As for full mobilization that takes months, even in modern times. Then what about training and so on. Worse mobilization means the populace of Moscow, and St. Petersburg. Now imagine the casualty rates incredibly high from the two most important cities attacking and defending against a highly motivated force with modern weapons etc. There are also 270 000 conscripts already serving within different branches of AFRF (figure comes from the spring and autumn recruitment campaigns each demanding 135 000 soldiers to be drafted, term of service is 1 year at the moment). They, at least, have some basic training, but currently are not allowed to be used in Ukraine, since it's not a war per Russian legislation, so they aren't allowed to be used abroad. Some violations of that rule happened, but not en masse. That's why I was sure that RU would be trying to conduct referendums as fast as possible, to give internal excuse to move conscripts in the captured areas to bolster defence lines at least and to free contract troops for the offensive actions. Regarding winter clothing - yeah, there are issues with it, especially on the actual front. I've already saw donation campaigns started on buying warm clothes and shoes for the troops. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation605 Posts
On September 10 2022 18:40 Gorsameth wrote: I think its more that the younger generations didn't live under decades of cold war propaganda about how the mighty USSR could come down from the north and roll a billion tanks across Europe. And few people in general would have bet on Russia being this incompetent a year ago. I think it has a lot to do with Shoigu's personality. Former Minister of Defence, Anatoliy Serdyukov, was geniuinly working on improving Russian military, take lessons from Chechnya and Georgia wars, improve living conditions for soldiers, coduct rearmament (extensive work on Su-57 and Armata/Bumerang/Kurganets projects started under his supervision) make army fully professional, implement proper NCOs in the army, drastically reduce oversized officer corps and improve its quality. This was met by fierce opposition from the old guard, especially officers who were demanded to be physically fit or the ones to being discharged due to the reforms. And this is also fueled by the fact that he was completely civilian person, never serving in the army before, I'm not sure if he ever put on uniform during his time as the head of MoD. This was very insulting to the Soviet-era officers, where army was entirely separate from the civilian supervision. So, due to this struggle, he was removed from the office on charges of corruption, and was replaced by Shoigu, who is sitting there for 10 years already, and many people commented that under his governance army was steadily degrading, especially in units near Moscow (Tamanskaya and Kantemirovskaya divisions, which are supposed to be "elite" are good examples). And judging by the accounts of people who worked with him earlier, in the 80s and 90s, I could see why. Under spoiler is a part of that person memoir, somewhat longread. + Show Spoiler + The Sayantyazhstroy trust based here had a good production base and was reconstructing its KPD plant. We stopped at the car assembly building of the Abakanvagonmash plant, which was being built by convicts. On the site we were met by a young man of short stature, thin, agile, the shape of his eyes and the oval of his face suggested that one of his parents, or maybe both, were Tuvans. During meeting, he introduced himself as Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu. Perhaps the meeting with the head of the trust would not have remained in my memory if not for his arrogance. In addition, talking about affairs, he did not fail to tell about his young age, about his rapid promotion, about his labor achievements, about being the youngest manager in the system of the head office and the ministry. I did not make any clarifications, but only listened and was amazed that such a conversation was possible. Most of his phrases began with the pronoun "I", after which there was a list of victories on the labor front. He was deprived of shyness, since he took credit for the success of the team. This was all the more bad because the workers subordinated to him were behind a fence with barbed wire and did not have the right to vote. I had to tell him that he has been appointed in this position recently, and the results of the work probably include the contribution of his predecessors. Shoigu did not give any importance to my words and continued to talk about his abilities. I did not like the behavior of the manager of the trust, the meeting left an unpleasant aftertaste, which is what I remember. The colleagues accompanying me behaved with restraint and did not restrain their junior comrade. Already in the car, they told me that Sergei was not without organizational skills, but his rapid career growth was due to the fact that he was married to the daughter of the first secretary of the Khakass regional party committee, O.S. Shenin. Soon Shenin will become the first secretary of the Krasnoyarsk regional committee of the party, and after him Shoigu will move to party work in the regional committee. In 1990, Shenin will move to Moscow, as he will be elected a member of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee. When we parted with Shoigu, I could not imagine that exactly four years later, having jumped over many official steps, he would be appointed by Silaev I.S. Deputy Chairman of the Goskomarchstroy of the RSFSR. This happened a month before the Supreme Council approved me as chairman of this committee. Joint work with Sergei did not last long, as he was soon transferred by Silaev to independent work, heading the emergency service, which eventually became the Ministry of Emergency Situations (MES). I had no objection to Shoigu's departure, since work in our committee did not suit him. He lacked literacy, besides, the presentation of thoughts on paper without the use of the pronoun "I" did not stick. Not without gaps were his engineering and technical knowledge. I had to make changes to the papers prepared by him for signature, to make hints on the content and nature of the presentation of the material. Such remarks did not upset him, he was above the current problems, he was occupied with thoughts of a different scale. The transfer of Shoigu to the emergency service suited our committee and, judging by the fact that he is still, i.e. fifteen years, permanent head of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and arranged this structure. The Ministry of Emergency Situations, as the reader knows, is always in sight, and generously, simply beyond measure, spends taxpayers' money to advertise their "achievements". Source: http://bfurmanov.ru/mintjagstrojsssr | ||
KwarK
United States41976 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13738 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6190 Posts
On September 12 2022 12:48 Sermokala wrote: Thats crazy. The war would have been completely different I feel if they had the SU-57 and the Armata line of heavy vehicle platforms. Instead they're working with planes that don't have access to GPS and T-72's for the most part. That was never going to happen. Russia didn't have the capacity to produce them at scale anymore after the 2014 sanctions. | ||
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kornetka
Poland129 Posts
On September 12 2022 10:19 Ardias wrote: There are also 270 000 conscripts already serving within different branches of AFRF (figure comes from the spring and autumn recruitment campaigns each demanding 135 000 soldiers to be drafted, term of service is 1 year at the moment). They, at least, have some basic training, but currently are not allowed to be used in Ukraine, since it's not a war per Russian legislation, so they aren't allowed to be used abroad. Some violations of that rule happened, but not en masse. That's why I was sure that RU would be trying to conduct referendums as fast as possible, to give internal excuse to move conscripts in the captured areas to bolster defence lines at least and to free contract troops for the offensive actions. Regarding winter clothing - yeah, there are issues with it, especially on the actual front. I've already saw donation campaigns started on buying warm clothes and shoes for the troops. Do you think Putin may annex the areas without the referendum? Or using even more sketchy online referendum? (more sketchy than planned referendums) I understand that in ongoing elections online voting is possible and Putin praised it: https://tass.com/russia/1505735 Btw, TASS itself is a 'nice' look into the alternative reality of the Russian world. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation605 Posts
On September 12 2022 15:47 kornetka wrote: Do you think Putin may annex the areas without the referendum? Or using even more sketchy online referendum? (more sketchy than planned referendums) I understand that in ongoing elections online voting is possible and Putin praised it: https://tass.com/russia/1505735 Btw, TASS itself is a 'nice' look into the alternative reality of the Russian world. Putin likes to make his actions look as legal as possible, plus I think he would want to show people actually appearing on the voting stations to show off that there is at least some public support to the referendums. Though on-line voting still may be implemented as additional feature. But with current situation on the front I believe any kind of referendum will be postponed and resumed only if the front is stabilized. Referendum in Crimea was conducted within a month, so if in half a year RU didn't manage to conduct them in Kherson/Zaporozhie regions - then, it seems, it isn't too hasty about that. | ||
zatic
Zurich15313 Posts
Pretty incredible segment of Russian propagandists coming to terms with the situation. I especially liked the realization that people won't happily join your country if you tell them their identity and language don't exist. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
Here's your daily Rainer Saks update, urging patience because there's a great deal of work remaining just to secure the recaptured areas. Summary of September 12 - The offensive of Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv and Kherson regions continued. The Russian military command is trying to build a new line of defense and yesterday organized missile attacks against the electricity infrastructure of Eastern Ukraine to slow down the Ukrainian initiative. The Russian command is not yet able to manage the situation, but is trying to get the situation under control at the front. - From the north of Kharkiv, all Russian troops left the territory of Ukraine without a direct attack by Ukrainian troops. But it was clear that Ukraine would have attacked them in the next few days, and it would probably not have been possible to organize resistance for any long period of time. Ukrainian units have not moved into Russian territory, but if Russian units start firing continuously in the region in the same way as is still happening in the Sumy Oblast, then of course Ukraine can also respond. The Kharkiv operational direction no longer needs to be considered separately. - Clearing of vacated areas is underway in the Izyum region. This will take some time as many Russian soldiers are expected to be left behind. So securing these areas takes a lot of time. In addition, Ukraine has to organize the logistics of its forces here, bring the police and civilian structures, etc. As the Russian command decided to withdraw from the entire northern part of Kharkiv Oblast, Ukrainian troops occupied the areas north of Kupyansk without major battles. The entire area west of the Oskil River is firmly under Ukrainian control, and Ukraine also controls some of the river crossings. The Russian side is trying to build a defense line on the Oskil River, although some of the settlements east of the river have already been abandoned by the Russians. Since Ukrainian forces have to organize logistics and replenish supplies, it does not make sense to expect an advance from here to the east in the next couple of days. The only idea to do this would be to invade the northern areas of Luhansk Oblast behind Severodonetsk. Certainly, the Ukrainian units in the Izyum region reached the desired line much earlier than expected, and future plans may therefore not be concrete. The extent of the technology left behind by the Russian side is yet to be determined, but it is already clear that Ukraine will get about one armored brigade's worth of tanks and armored personnel carriers. In addition, there's less damaged equipment, which can also be fixed up and used, and a lot of equipment destroyed by the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian side does not talk or speculate about the losses of Russian manpower, but they are certainly in the thousands. - In the Kramatorsk/Siversk direction, Ukraine continues to expand its bridgehead north of the Siversk Donets River, but there is fighting going on and the Russian units have not dispersed. Also, Russian units have managed to concentrate near the city of Lyssychansk/Severdonetsk, and Ukrainian forces have apparently not managed to secure their positions near these cities. In the coming days, it will become clear how things will turn out there. - In the direction of Bakhmut, the Russian side was able to slightly increase the intensity of its attacks, it may also have made some progress in one point. No clear success has been achieved. - In southern Donbass, the Russian side is still trying to attack around the city of Donetsk, but to no avail. Apart from suffering losses, nothing much has been achieved. - There is an artillery duel on the southern front. There are rumors that Ukraine is massing forces in the Vugledar region to carry out an offensive towards Mariupol. At the moment, it would be more classified as an attempt to mislead the Russian command on the southern front, in order to provoke them to redeploy their forces unnecessarily. But maybe I'm wrong - In the Kherson region, Ukraine has decent artillery superiority and the the focus is on methodical processing of Russian positions. Objects in the rear will also be hit, and all attempts to organize crossings of the Dnieper River will be eliminated. Ukraine is quietly pressing on the front as well, but sparingly. In the last 24 hours, there have been more reports that Russian units are retreating, which could be interpreted as their departure from the first line of defense and relocation to the second line of defense. It is possible that this is done due to heavy losses and to avoid encirclement. Apparently, the Russian command has recently received permission from the political leadership to pull back the front line. During today/tomorrow it will become clear whether these bits of information are true. Since the Russian military command cannot do much except organize missile attacks against Ukrainian cities, the risk of such attacks in the coming days is very high. Apparently, nervous discussions continue in the Russian leadership about how to continue the war. It is also clear that even with general mobilization, it would not be possible to form such a large number of combat-capable troops to hold the positions that Russia currently controls. If the Ukrainian side does not start making big mistakes in their haste, they will be able to gain the upper hand on all fronts. Unfortunately, it will still take some time." + Show Spoiler + Original: 12. septembri kokkuvõte - Ukraina vägede pealetung Harkivi ja Hersoni oblastites jätkus. Vene väejuhatus üritab ehitada üles uut kaitseliini ning korraldas Ukraina intisiatiiv pidurdamiseks eile raketirünnakuid Ida-Ukraina elektrienergia taristu vastu. Vene väejuhatus ei suuda veel olukorda hallata, kuid üritab olukorda rindel kontrolli alla saada. - Harkivi põhjasuunalt lahkusid kõik vene väed Ukraina territooriumilt ilma Ukraina vägede otsese pealetungita. Aga oli selge, et Ukraina lähipäevil oleks neid rünnannud ja vastupanu ilmselt ei oleks suudetud pikalt korraldada. Ukraina üksused ei ole liikunud vene territooriumile, kuid kui vene üksused hakkavad piirkonda samamoodi pidevalt tulistama, nagu kestab siiani Sumõ oblastis, siis muidugi võib Ukraina ka vastata. Harkivi operatiivsuunda enam eraldi käsitlema ei pea. - Izjumi piirkonnas käib vabatatud alade puhastamine. See võtab mõnda aega, kuna eeldatavasti on maha jäänud palju vene sõdureid. Seega võtab nende alade julgestamine palju aega. Lisaks peab Ukraina korraldama siin oma vägede logistika, tooma kohale politsei ja tsiviilstruktuurid jne. Kuna vene väejuhatus otsustas lahkuda kogu Harkivi oblasti põhjaosast, hõivasid Ukraina väed Kupjanskist põhja poole jäävad piirkonnad ilma suuremate lahinguteta. Kogu Oskili jõest läände jääv ala on kindlalt Ukraina kontrolli all, lisaks kontrollib Ukraina ka mõningaid jõe ületus kohti. Vene pool üritab Oskili jõel ehitada üles kaitseliini, kuigi ka osadest jõest idas paiknevatest asulatest on juba jõutud põgeneda. Kuna Ukraina väed peavad korraldama logistikat ja täiendama varusid, ei ole vahest paaril järgneval päeval mõtet siit ida poole edasitungi oodata. Ainus mõte seda teha oleks tungida Luganski oblasti põhjaaladele Sverodonetski selja taha. Kindlasti jõudsid Ukraina üksused Izjumi piirkonnas soovitud joonele palju varem, kui eeldati ning edasised plaanid ei pruugi seega konkreetsed olla. Vene poole maha jäetud tehnika ulatus alles selgub, kuid juba praegu on näha, et Ukraina saab siit endale ca ühe soomusbrigaadi jagu tanke ja soomukeid. Lisaks kergemalt vigastatud tehnika, mis on võimalik samuti kasutusele võtta ning kuhjaga ukrainlaste poolt hävitatud tehnikat. Vene elavjõu kaotustest Ukraina pool ei räägi, ei hakka ka sepkuleerima, kuid kindlasti ulatuvad need numbride tuhandetesse. - Kramatorski/Siverski suunal jätkab Ukraina oma sillapea laiendamist Siverski Donetsi jõest põhjas, aga seal käivad lahingud ning vene üksused ei ole laiali jooksnud. Samuti on vene üksused suutnud end koondada Lõssõtšanski/Severdonetski linna juures ja Ukraina vägedel ilmselt ei ole õnnestunud nende linnade juures oma positsioone kindlustada. Lähipäevl selgub, kuidas siin asjad kujunevad - Bahmuti suunal suutis vene pool pisut oma rünnakute intensiivsust tõsta, võib olla ka ühes punktis pisut edeneti. Selget edu ei ole saavutatud. - Lõuna-Donbassis üritab vene pool veel rünnata Donetski linna ümbruses, aga tulutult. Peale kaotuste suurt midagi ei ole saavutatud - Lõunarindel käib suurtükiduell. Liiguvad kuuldused, nagu koondaks Ukraina Vugledari piirkonda vägesid, et sooritada pealtung Mariupoli suunas. Hetkel liigitaks selle rohkem katseks eksitada vene väejuhatust lõunarindel, et ärgitada neid oma vägesid asjatult ümber paigutama. Aga võib olla ma eksin - Hersoni piirkonnas on Ukrainal korralik suurtükiväe ülekaal ja keskendutakse vene positsioonide metoodilisele töötlemisele. Samuti saavad lööke objektid tagalas ning likvideeritakse kõik katsed korraldada Dnepri jõe ületamisi. Ukraina pressib vaikselt ka rindel peale, kuid säästlikult. Viimase 24h jooksul on sagenenud teated, et vene üksused taanduvad, mida võiks tõlgendada kui nende lahkumist esimeselt kaitseliinilt ning ümberasumist teisele kaitseliinile. Võimalik, et tänu suurtele kaotustele ja vältimaks ümberpiiramist seda ka tehakse. Ilmsesti on vene väejuhatus saanud poliitiliselt juhtkonnalt hiljuti ka loa rindejoont tagasi tõmmata. Tänase/homse jooksul selgub, kas need infokillud ka tõele vastavad. Kuna vene väejuhatus suurt midagi peale raketirünnakute korraldamise Ukraina linnade vastu teha ei saa, siis on sääraste rünnakute oht lähipäevil väga kõrge. Ilmselt jätkuvad närvilised arutelud vene juhtkonnas, kuidas sõda edasi pidada. Selge on ka see, et isegi üldmobilisatsiooniga, ei suudetaks moodustada sellisel hulgal võitlusvõimelisi vägesid, et hoida neid positsioone, mida venemaa hetkel veel kontrollib. Kui Ukraina pool ei hakka kiirustades suuri vigu tegema, on neil võimalik ülekaal kõikidel rinnetel enda kätte saada. Kahjuks võtab see ikkagi veel omajagu aega." Bonus: NSFW video of UA troops being forced to stop during the counter-offensive. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation605 Posts
On September 12 2022 16:35 zatic wrote: https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1569070513909022720 Pretty incredible segment of Russian propagandists coming to terms with the situation. I especially liked the realization that people won't happily join your country if you tell them their identity and language don't exist. It's so funny to look at Sergey Mironov being staunch Kremlin supporter, while ten-fifteen years ago he was supposed to be leading the opposition movement to our ruling "United Russia" party. "I can only hope that much in our country in today's political system will change in the near future. The country is waiting for change. People don't want to live the way they do today. The people of Russia want to know: where are we going? what country are we building? what will we leave to our children, our grandchildren? And the main condition for the fact that there is no catastrophe ahead of us is already existing real and protected by law and the will of the authorities political competition - a real multi-party system" - Sergey Mironov, 18/05/2011. | ||
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0x64
Finland4519 Posts
On September 12 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote: It's so funny to look at Sergey Mironov being staunch Kremlin supporter, while ten-fifteen years ago he was supposed to be leading the opposition movement to our ruling "United Russia" party. "I can only hope that much in our country in today's political system will change in the near future. The country is waiting for change. People don't want to live the way they do today. The people of Russia want to know: where are we going? what country are we building? what will we leave to our children, our grandchildren? And the main condition for the fact that there is no catastrophe ahead of us is already existing real and protected by law and the will of the authorities political competition - a real multi-party system" - Sergey Mironov, 18/05/2011. Maybe he had new windows installed. Can't blame anyone talking publicly to try to survive. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2243 Posts
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