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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 218

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria818 Posts
September 12 2022 09:37 GMT
#4341
For some reason this TV discussion reminds me of "the Emperor has no clothes". If Ukrainians make further significant gains, maybe critics will grow even more in numbers. Unfortunately, autumn and winter are coming, so maybe activities will be paused / slowed down.
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation610 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-12 11:57:40
September 12 2022 09:39 GMT
#4342
On September 11 2022 06:18 Artesimo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2022 05:21 KwarK wrote:
On September 11 2022 05:08 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 11 2022 04:28 Sermokala wrote:1. Silk glove approach? What have you read/ what are people talking about the approach russia has been using? What escalation have they been saving for strategic level attacks like you've been describing? Ie strategic bombers more cruise missiles etc.
I assume he meant this still being a 'special operation' and not an all out war.
Tho that matters in terms of conscription, I haven't been getting the idea that Russia is holding back on equipment because 'its not a real war'.


And it's not like Ukraine doesn't have plenty of its own shit that they could toss at targets within Russian borders if they so chose. They've been holding back to a greater extent than Russia. Russia has been freely attacking infrastructure and civilian targets this entire time whereas Ukraine, correctly identifying that they're answerable to their western backers, have refused to destroy schools in Russian cities in retaliation.

Escalation to total war here would not be favourable to Russia. There's only really one card they have left to play, the nuclear option, and they can't play it.


1. It is also in ukraines best interest that russia is not mobilising, which might have played into ukraines restraint when it comes to attacks on russian soil. Russias performance has been heavily impacted by their lack of manpower since the beginning of the war. The russian military is not supposed to fight a war without general mobilisation. Afaik, during peacetime they keep a bunch of units incomplete and they are supposed to get filled up through mobilisation. This is why we initially saw BTGs with no long range communication (missing their signalling platoon), units unable to bring enough fire support to properly advance (not having their full strenght of batteries attached to them), units lacking their logistical support elements etc.. Units that are not even aware that they are on a combat mission (some sources suggested this was caused by the US revealing the russian plans for invasion in advance. I saw claims by credible people that it caused paranoia in russias regime and influenced the decision of not telling large parts of the leadership on the ground until just before the invasion).

2. And moving parts of BTGs around to fill up an incomplete BTG leaves you with a BTG where the elements are not well adjusted to another and may lack in cohesion.
This is all caused by their complete wrong assumptions and their plan of a special military operation.

3. Though I am not ridiculing them as much for their initial plan as some do. An article about zelensky and what was going on during the first days of the war was posted here some month ago, and it revealed that at least parts of the russian plan came much closer to success than initially told. The article described the hideout of zelensky and ukrainain command in kiev getting assaulted by russian troops (probably infiltration units), which either came close to breaching the building or did breach the building at some point( I don't remember the detail, but either too close for comfort)... if they had succeed, things might have gone a lot more according to plan. But the absolute arrogance and incompetence of very obviously not having any contingency plan at all is just mind boggling... just as much as their little stunt of sending troops to an exercise in the middle of a war, just to keep up appearances.

4. Initially I waved aside claims of russian leadership being surrounded by yes men as gossip, but this string of what seems very obvious shortcomings and lack of judgement make it hard not to believe that there isn't at least some culture within the russian leadership, that makes it very hard for people to speak out against the ideas of some individuals. At this point it seems to common of an occurrence and on too big of a scale.

5. For their lack of manpower: In their desperate search for troops without mobilisation, russia has reportedly even deployed trainings personnel to the front. I sincerely hope they wasted so many of their instructors by now that even if they mobilised they would still only end up with mediocre troop quality on average. It would be the perfect conclusion of what seems to be one stupid decision after another coupled with with an adamant refusal to acknowledge their own mistakes.

Definetly missed some good posts in a heat of previous discussion. Made a list in your post for the convinience of reply.

1. There you are mixing it a bit with Soviet system. USSR didn't have professional enlisted force, so it was relied heavily on large officer corps. Only most senior NCOs were professional ("praporschiks" and "starshinas", or "michman" in the Navy, comparable equivalent probably would be "master sergeant", "gunnery sergeant" and "ensign" in US military respectively). So USSR army was divided into readiness cathegories, with "A" category being frontline units (the ones in Europe, on border with Finland and some in Ukraine, Belarus and Baltics, most modern equipment, 90%+ personnel, regular drills, my father served in such a unit on FInland border) and "B", "C" and "D" (with "D" being token force around 5-10% active personnel, mostly officers, on T-55 and BTR-40) being further and further inside USSR. Mobilized troops in case of war would be filling those units to full numbers.
In Russia we were trying for many years to switch to professional army. It was somewhat done, of our 1 million army there were around 280 000 officers, 450 000 contract troops and 270 000 conscripts (high number of officers is due to many positions in Air Force, Air Defence, Navy being occupied by them, as well as in different rear service), hence it became common practice to create mixed contract/conscript units, with 2-3 battalions of the brigade being contract, and 1-2 being conscripted. Now, BTGs are the mishmash of the units from within the brigade, and since BTGs were to be formed only from contract troops, who comprised most of the complex units within brigades (Air defence, artillery, comms etc.), BTGs were severely lacking infantry (since that was left to conscripts). It was the worst for the BTGs of tank brigades, some of them having only one (!) infantry platoon (!!) per BTG (!!!). Which isn't even enough to man the guard duty for the unit, so tankers had to take this role themselves.
As for paranoia - yes, can confirm from the witness (person participating in Hostomel landing) - they didn't have any clear understanding what their objective is (at least on the level of regular grunts).
Regarding poor supply situation - I believe it to be mostly negligence and incompetence of those responsible for supply storage and maintenance, there were plenty of record of signal units recieving radios with completely outdated batteries, for example (like, few years outdated).

2. And even worse - often instead of fulfilling BTGs (or in case of LDPR, existing brigades and regiments) with fresh troops, they were instead sent to some newly formed units, where no one had any combat experience.

3. I'm still not sure about this attack on Zelensky, though in chaos and confusion of the first days anything could be possible, and he is surely a target. It's just I don't remember any info of this units being caught, and I doubt they could make out of the center of Kiev alive. My guess was that it was friendly fire incident (AFU was fiercly searching for infiltration units in UA uniform, which caused few incidents)
https://t.me/uniannet/66539
but it's hard to be sure.
And yeah, after the initial thrust failed to subdue Ukraine, our command seemed to panic and made a lot of bad calls. As far as I heard (no source on that, just from people talking to me), that AFU had very thin lines in areas of Ugledar and to the west of it in March-early April, but AFRF command, despite local superiority, were afraid to exploit it, and instead threw those forces to the Mariinka and Avdiivka to assault AFU fortified positions head on.

4. There is a common russian motto for that system: "I'm the boss, you're the fool". And yes, it often has place in governmemts structure, especially in military with its rigid hierarchy and subordination.

5. There is still a foundation for training mobilized/volunteer personnel in the permanent bases of existing brigades/divisions, since most of them had conscript units with their officers left behind. However, there is some odd theme of creating new battalions based on regions, where, again, there seem to be no one with combat experience of the current war (though veterans of Chechnya could very well be). It's kinda looks like a money grabbing scheme from the expenses on creation and supply of those units from regional budgets, to be honest.

Mess with the best or die like the rest.
Artesimo
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany546 Posts
September 12 2022 11:20 GMT
#4343
On September 12 2022 18:39 Ardias wrote:
Definetly missed some good posts in a heat of previous discussion. Made a list in your post for the convinience of reply.

1. There you are mixing it a bit with Soviet system. USSR didn't have professional enlisted force, so it was relied heavily on large officer corps. Only most senior NCOs were professional ("praporschiks" and "starshinas", or "michman" in the Navy, comparable equivalent probably would be "master sergeant", "gunnery sergeant" and "ensign" in US military respectively). So USSR army was divided into readiness cathegories, with "A" category being frontline units (the ones in Europe, on border with Finland and some in Ukraine, Belarus and Baltics, most modern equipment, 90%+ personnel, regular drills, my father served in such a unit on FInland border) and "B", "C" and "D" (with "D" being token force around 5-10% active personnel, mostly officers, on T-55 and BTR-40) being further and further inside USSR. Mobilized troops in case of war would be filling those units to full numbers.
In Russia we were trying for many years to switch to professional army. It was somewhat done, of our 1 million army there were around 280 000 officers, 450 000 contract troops and 270 000 conscripts (high number of officers is due to many positions in Air Force, Air Defence, Navy being occupied by them, as well as in different rear service), hence it became common practice to create mixed contract/conscript units, with 2-3 battalions of the brigade being contract, and 1-2 being conscripted. Now, BTGs are the mishmash of the units from within the brigade, and since BTGs were to be formed only from contract troops, who comprised most of the complex units within brigades (Air defence, artillery, comms etc.), BTGs were severely lacking infantry (since that was left to conscripts). It was the worst for the BTGs of tank brigades, some of them having only one (!) infantry platoon (!!) per BTG (!!!). Which isn't even enough to man the guard duty for the unit, so tankers had to take this role themselves.
As for paranoia - yes, can confirm from the witness (person participating in Hostomel landing) - they didn't have any clear understanding what their objective is (at least on the level of regular grunts).
Regarding poor supply situation - I believe it to be mostly negligence and incompetence of those responsible for supply storage and maintenance, there were plenty of record of signal units recieving radios with completely outdated batteries, for example (like, few years outdated).

2. And even worse - often instead of fulfilling BTGs (or in case of LDPR, existing brigades and regiments) with fresh troops, they were instead sent to some newly formed units, where no one had any combat experience.

3. I'm still not sure about this attack on Zelensky, though in chaos and confusion of the first days anything could be possible, and he is surely a target. It's just I don't remember any info of this units being caught, and I doubt they could make out of the center of Kiev alive. My guess was that it was friendly fire incident (AFU was fiercly searching for infiltration units in UA uniform, which caused few incidents)
https://t.me/uniannet/66539
but it's hard to be sure.
And yeah, after the initial trust failed to subdue Ukraine, our command seemed to panic and made a lot of bad calls. As far as I heard (no source on that, just from people talking to me), that AFU had very thin lines in areas of Ugledar and to the west of it in March-early April, but AFRF command, despite local superiority, were afraid to exploit it, and instead threw those forces to the Mariinka and Avdiivka to assault AFU fortified positions head on.

4. There is a common russian motto for that system: "I'm the boss, you're the fool". And yes, it often has place in governmemts structure, especially in military with its rigid hierarchy and subordination.

5. There is still a foundation for training mobilized/volunteer personnel in the permanent bases of existing brigades/divisions, since most of them had conscript units with their officers left behind. However, there is some odd theme of creating new battalions based on regions, where, again, there seem to be no one with combat experience of the current war (though veterans of Chechnya could very well be). It's kinda looks like a money grabbing scheme from the expenses on creation and supply of those units from regional budgets, to be honest.



1: Thanks for the feedback, I knew that russia had made efforts to transition away from the purely conscript army, but was under the impression they had not managed to reach their goal yet. I should not have called it a conscript based army but one that still needs conscripts to effectively work at their full potential. For the supply, I think corruption also played a part. Sure stuff like vehicles seeming like they had not been proper maintained is negligence, but there is also the fact that most of my russian and belarussian friends tell me, that whenever there is a big military exercise, you can buy some cheap fuel. So there is also corruption/lack of discipline, plus all the other things mentioned in your post and mine.

3: I will have to do some more reading on that since all I know of it is from 1 or 2 atricles. They were from reputable sources, but they both also only used official ukrainian sources, which of course are not completely reliable. The timing of those articles made them seem plausible to me, as they got published well after russias forces had moved back from their positions in the northwest of kiev and ukraine had started to stabilize and was in a position to admit that things were closer than initially reported.

5: I have read reports on training personnel being send to the front as part of the search for manpower, but those might have been overstated. Unless it also happened to be from those poorer regions where recruitment efforts have much better chances at success due to the economic circumstances. Losing training personnel in any case is a huge blow though, since you lose a lot of knowledge and experience that would have been passed down to the recruits. You are probably right that it is not enough to hurt the russian war effort outside of massive full scale mobilisation. There are still going to be enough instructors around to handle a mobilisation except maybe in a few places.
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-12 11:23:10
September 12 2022 11:22 GMT
#4344
More missile strikes on Kharkiv critical civilian infrastructure reported. No electricity, water pumps are not working due to loss of power as well, and we got info about gas pipes being damaged.

If someone is in doubts - this is how kremlin "liberates", simply trying to inflict as much damage to civilians and causing even more humanitarian crisis.

P.S. Yesterday there was also 3 missile impacts not far away from my dads apps into civilian mid-rise housing. Buildings are severely damaged. There used be an artillery army base on the same spot...20 years ago...This shows how outdated their intel is
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation610 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-12 11:54:26
September 12 2022 11:44 GMT
#4345
On September 12 2022 20:20 Artesimo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2022 18:39 Ardias wrote:
Definetly missed some good posts in a heat of previous discussion. Made a list in your post for the convinience of reply.

1. There you are mixing it a bit with Soviet system. USSR didn't have professional enlisted force, so it was relied heavily on large officer corps. Only most senior NCOs were professional ("praporschiks" and "starshinas", or "michman" in the Navy, comparable equivalent probably would be "master sergeant", "gunnery sergeant" and "ensign" in US military respectively). So USSR army was divided into readiness cathegories, with "A" category being frontline units (the ones in Europe, on border with Finland and some in Ukraine, Belarus and Baltics, most modern equipment, 90%+ personnel, regular drills, my father served in such a unit on FInland border) and "B", "C" and "D" (with "D" being token force around 5-10% active personnel, mostly officers, on T-55 and BTR-40) being further and further inside USSR. Mobilized troops in case of war would be filling those units to full numbers.
In Russia we were trying for many years to switch to professional army. It was somewhat done, of our 1 million army there were around 280 000 officers, 450 000 contract troops and 270 000 conscripts (high number of officers is due to many positions in Air Force, Air Defence, Navy being occupied by them, as well as in different rear service), hence it became common practice to create mixed contract/conscript units, with 2-3 battalions of the brigade being contract, and 1-2 being conscripted. Now, BTGs are the mishmash of the units from within the brigade, and since BTGs were to be formed only from contract troops, who comprised most of the complex units within brigades (Air defence, artillery, comms etc.), BTGs were severely lacking infantry (since that was left to conscripts). It was the worst for the BTGs of tank brigades, some of them having only one (!) infantry platoon (!!) per BTG (!!!). Which isn't even enough to man the guard duty for the unit, so tankers had to take this role themselves.
As for paranoia - yes, can confirm from the witness (person participating in Hostomel landing) - they didn't have any clear understanding what their objective is (at least on the level of regular grunts).
Regarding poor supply situation - I believe it to be mostly negligence and incompetence of those responsible for supply storage and maintenance, there were plenty of record of signal units recieving radios with completely outdated batteries, for example (like, few years outdated).

2. And even worse - often instead of fulfilling BTGs (or in case of LDPR, existing brigades and regiments) with fresh troops, they were instead sent to some newly formed units, where no one had any combat experience.

3. I'm still not sure about this attack on Zelensky, though in chaos and confusion of the first days anything could be possible, and he is surely a target. It's just I don't remember any info of this units being caught, and I doubt they could make out of the center of Kiev alive. My guess was that it was friendly fire incident (AFU was fiercly searching for infiltration units in UA uniform, which caused few incidents)
https://t.me/uniannet/66539
but it's hard to be sure.
And yeah, after the initial trust failed to subdue Ukraine, our command seemed to panic and made a lot of bad calls. As far as I heard (no source on that, just from people talking to me), that AFU had very thin lines in areas of Ugledar and to the west of it in March-early April, but AFRF command, despite local superiority, were afraid to exploit it, and instead threw those forces to the Mariinka and Avdiivka to assault AFU fortified positions head on.

4. There is a common russian motto for that system: "I'm the boss, you're the fool". And yes, it often has place in governmemts structure, especially in military with its rigid hierarchy and subordination.

5. There is still a foundation for training mobilized/volunteer personnel in the permanent bases of existing brigades/divisions, since most of them had conscript units with their officers left behind. However, there is some odd theme of creating new battalions based on regions, where, again, there seem to be no one with combat experience of the current war (though veterans of Chechnya could very well be). It's kinda looks like a money grabbing scheme from the expenses on creation and supply of those units from regional budgets, to be honest.



1: Thanks for the feedback, I knew that russia had made efforts to transition away from the purely conscript army, but was under the impression they had not managed to reach their goal yet. I should not have called it a conscript based army but one that still needs conscripts to effectively work at their full potential. For the supply, I think corruption also played a part. Sure stuff like vehicles seeming like they had not been proper maintained is negligence, but there is also the fact that most of my russian and belarussian friends tell me, that whenever there is a big military exercise, you can buy some cheap fuel. So there is also corruption/lack of discipline, plus all the other things mentioned in your post and mine.

3: I will have to do some more reading on that since all I know of it is from 1 or 2 atricles. They were from reputable sources, but they both also only used official ukrainian sources, which of course are not completely reliable. The timing of those articles made them seem plausible to me, as they got published well after russias forces had moved back from their positions in the northwest of kiev and ukraine had started to stabilize and was in a position to admit that things were closer than initially reported.

5: I have read reports on training personnel being send to the front as part of the search for manpower, but those might have been overstated. Unless it also happened to be from those poorer regions where recruitment efforts have much better chances at success due to the economic circumstances. Losing training personnel in any case is a huge blow though, since you lose a lot of knowledge and experience that would have been passed down to the recruits. You are probably right that it is not enough to hurt the russian war effort outside of massive full scale mobilisation. There are still going to be enough instructors around to handle a mobilisation except maybe in a few places.

1. Well, good old corruption of course. We have a store here, where you could by army MREs (stamped "not for sale") for cash, no check of course. But they had no new supplies since February, and the cashier was very jumpy when we came by to ask if they are still selling, thought that we were cops in civilian clothes (police investigative personnel don't wear uniform at work here). So, I guess, all MREs went to intended consumers since the start of the war.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5558 Posts
September 12 2022 16:09 GMT
#4346
What's the share of DNR/LNR troops in Kherson? Perhaps Ukraine could offer them amnesty if they surrender? If their share is substantial, it could collapse the front.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 12 2022 16:16 GMT
#4347
Well apparently there are surrender talks going on between Ukrainian and Russian forces in the trenches of Kherson.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation610 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-12 16:28:48
September 12 2022 16:27 GMT
#4348
https://defbrief.com/2022/09/12/us-mulls-sending-tanks-to-ukraine-urges-allies-to-do-same-report/
Took them long enough.
On September 13 2022 01:09 maybenexttime wrote:
What's the share of DNR/LNR troops in Kherson? Perhaps Ukraine could offer them amnesty if they surrender? If their share is substantial, it could collapse the front.

There are at least 3 DPR reservist regiments - 111th, 127th, 131st. How large each regiment is - hard to say, couldn't find exact orders of battle, but if it is called "regiment", it should be at least 1200-1500 men (I don't think that they are too large, since they are lacking heavy armament and don't need additional personnel to maintain it).
Estimations regarding overall numbers of AFRF forces near Kherson vary from 15 to 25 thousands. There are two divisions (7th Air Assault and 20th Motor Rifle), at least one brigade (126th Coastal Defence), Rosgvardia elements (though these are securing Kherson and other settlements along the Dniepr mostly) and Southern MD support units (artillery, air defence etc.). Plus aforementioned reservists.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13933 Posts
September 12 2022 17:44 GMT
#4349
On September 12 2022 14:59 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2022 12:48 Sermokala wrote:
Thats crazy. The war would have been completely different I feel if they had the SU-57 and the Armata line of heavy vehicle platforms. Instead they're working with planes that don't have access to GPS and T-72's for the most part.

That was never going to happen. Russia didn't have the capacity to produce them at scale anymore after the 2014 sanctions.

As was said though the guy was taken out before 2014. Russia has never had the capability to produce them but instead of putting money to them in the meantime, they've constantly been producing upgrade packages for T-90's that have faired no better than anything else when it comes to taking a javelin.

I'll believe Russian units west of the deniper when I see it but it wouldn't shock me if it happened sooner than later. With Kharkiv collapsing there is no help coming. The temperature of the river drops by the day. Winter is coming.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
September 12 2022 17:53 GMT
#4350
On September 13 2022 01:27 Ardias wrote:
https://defbrief.com/2022/09/12/us-mulls-sending-tanks-to-ukraine-urges-allies-to-do-same-report/
Took them long enough.
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2022 01:09 maybenexttime wrote:
What's the share of DNR/LNR troops in Kherson? Perhaps Ukraine could offer them amnesty if they surrender? If their share is substantial, it could collapse the front.

There are at least 3 DPR reservist regiments - 111th, 127th, 131st. How large each regiment is - hard to say, couldn't find exact orders of battle, but if it is called "regiment", it should be at least 1200-1500 men (I don't think that they are too large, since they are lacking heavy armament and don't need additional personnel to maintain it).
Estimations regarding overall numbers of AFRF forces near Kherson vary from 15 to 25 thousands. There are two divisions (7th Air Assault and 20th Motor Rifle), at least one brigade (126th Coastal Defence), Rosgvardia elements (though these are securing Kherson and other settlements along the Dniepr mostly) and Southern MD support units (artillery, air defence etc.). Plus aforementioned reservists.

Not surprised it took that long to send tanks tbh. First month, RU would've been pretty likely to capture or destroy them (arty is just as good at mobility killing modern MBT's as cold war ones) From the second month of the conflict to a few weeks ago, a modern MBT battalion would've just been wasting fuel or sitting on the backlines for the most part. They'd have been super nice for the last couple weeks though, as the fire control and optics on a modern MBT might as well be from a video game with how much better they are compared to a cold war era tank.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria818 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-12 18:30:40
September 12 2022 18:28 GMT
#4351
If you thought falling from a window was no longer a surprise, wait for Kremlin's next idea. The current trend is falling overboard.

hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2267 Posts
September 12 2022 20:06 GMT
#4352
Oh my Jesus, what a perfidious suicide!
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
September 12 2022 20:07 GMT
#4353
Well, looks like this is the beginning of the end for Russia. Without those referendums, they can't shoddily justify sending the full military into Ukraine, so I don't see how they last until the end of the month at this rate

Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-12 21:22:08
September 12 2022 20:47 GMT
#4354
Also that replacements/reinforcements have been halted being sent to Ukraine, now it could mean they are simply regrouping in to new BG's and planning a counter attack. While also waiting for the Ukrainians to reach the end of the rail lines, as the Ukrainians have captured a TON of rolling stock full of military supplies, and armaments.

Meanwhile it seems the battle for Mariupol is about to begin or has at least started. Or at the very least trying to prevent it from occurring.



Edit: Now it appears war has broken out once more between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Full fledged artillery attacks at that. This will be a major concern for Russia.

+ Show Spoiler +

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria818 Posts
September 12 2022 21:30 GMT
#4355
Zelensky told Kremlin straight Ukraine won't be scared and will not give up. I wish we had more such courageous leaders in Bulgaria instead of puppets.


In a Telegram post addressed to Russia, Zelensky asked: “Do you still think that we are ‘one nation?’ Do you still think that you can scare us, break us, make us make concessions?”

“You really did not understand anything? Don’t understand who we are? What are we for? What are we talking about?,” said the post, which published Sunday.

“Read my lips: Without gas or without you? Without you. Without light or without you? Without you. Without water or without you? Without you. Without food or without you? Without you,” Zelensky wrote.

“Cold, hunger, darkness and thirst are not as scary and deadly for us as your ‘friendship and brotherhood,’” he added. “But history will put everything in its place. And we will be with gas, light, water and food … and WITHOUT you!”

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/12/europe/zelensky-message-kharkiv-russia-ukraine-intl/index.html
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 12 2022 22:08 GMT
#4356
Russian diplomats work wonders sometimes. Because Russia did not need this to happen while being pushed back in Ukraine.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4100 Posts
September 13 2022 00:31 GMT
#4357
Ukraine's advance in Kharkiv has continued at an extremely fast pace, the oblast is virtually liberated. Russian bombings have been strongly reduced in Kharkiv and Kherson. Fighting in the direction of Lysychansk is taking place.

Not to jinx it, but at this rate we could be looking at an end to this war within 5-6 months, perhaps even sooner since mass resignation of Russian troops would be expected. It all depends on how many more moves Ukraine has planned for the near future.

[image loading]
[image loading]
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17257 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-13 00:46:24
September 13 2022 00:41 GMT
#4358
Winter is coming... I guess maybe Russians just want to hold out until then? Hoping that the weather will reduce combat intensity allowing them to regroup and maybe even rivers turning to ice or something.

Considering we haven't really had very harsh winters around here recently I'm doubtful but you never know.

To put it into perspective, in the past decade or more we've had like 2 weeks of snow/year when during my youth we had months with snow up to your elbows. Winters now are more like cold autumn with mud everywhere rather than proper white out.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 13 2022 02:12 GMT
#4359
Said mild winter when the invasion started was killing Russian forces by hypothermia as well as frostbite... and that was at the end of a "warm" winter.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13933 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-09-13 02:32:09
September 13 2022 02:28 GMT
#4360
Conventional advances may have their intensity reduced but logistics needs will go up a lot in winter. Partisan activity combined with drones special forces and HIMARS strikes will target the things that keep people fed,and warm instead of the things that they fire. Unless Russia can summon tens of thousands of troops and a thousand armored vehicles while supplying them somehow as well Kherson will be retaken one way or another. Cold mud is much much worse for fighting than Hard frozen soil. Heat will transmit out of a body much faster, be a lot harder to keep anything clean and will be a nightmare to move around in or live in. And as we saw in the early days its EXTREMLY easy to keep track of your entire logistics chain when you have to use Paved roads or train tracks to move anything. its EXTREMLY easy to ambush anything when you can just hide in the forest next to a road and just wait for something to come to you.

If they think that they have resistance behind their lines now just wait until the people can't eat and have someone tell them they need to give up their firewood. The front is so long that smuggling small arms and "light infantry" across won't be an issue. In a world where fire support can be easily, accurately, and securely called in I would be surprised if more casualties didn't happen in the next 4 months than the previous 4 months, if the war continues.

Zelensky coming in again with an all time motivational speech. Speechwriters wish they could express emotion like that on the best days of their life. Without you.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
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