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On April 15 2026 04:27 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
I think they'll do a much better job than you at judging Hezbollah's oppression and intentions regarding the Lebanese people. As much as you would dismiss and ignore Hezbollah's actions after the US-Israel war on Iran, they saw the rocket and missile fire from Hezbollah into Israel first-hand. I just have to reject your premise here that it requires a strategy and their local observations are outweighed by propaganda coming from 100 miles away. That seems contradictory to me. You would think that their local observations are what caused the people who are currently part of Hezbollah, who are mainly Lebanese people, to join Hezbollah in the first place. I would agree that these observations have more capacity to move people than propaganda from 1000 miles away (in this case Iran). But then you don't come to the same conclusion as me, so that seems weird, doesn't it? Do you have a different theory as to why these people have joined Hezbollah? Hezbollah's been bad for Lebanon for many decades now, but they have international support and training and more money and arms and better organization than the civilian government. I dispute the assertion that their position within Lebanon is forgotten because of Hamas and Gaza and Israel. The oppressed don't simply hug and join their oppressors because of shared hatred of Israel.
On April 15 2026 04:28 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 15 2026 04:18 Billyboy wrote:On April 15 2026 04:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 15 2026 03:58 Billyboy wrote:On April 15 2026 03:18 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2026 22:49 Billyboy wrote:On April 14 2026 22:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2026 22:04 Billyboy wrote:
Israel and Lebanon are having their first direct talks in 40 years. Wild it’s been that long for neighbours.
They are wide apart in talks. Lebanon demands a ceasefire for legitimate talks, Netanyahu says they will continue until agreement made. Which makes it seem hard to ever get started.
Israel’s demands seem pretty reasonable from 10,000 feet, they are Hezbollah disarming and a conclusion of a historic peace agreement.
Even if agreed, Lebanon hasn’t had any success (or the UN) in disarming Hezbollah. And Israel is likely going to demand a “buffer” zone for some length of time or even indefinitely.
Long way to peace, but good they are making the first actual step. I wonder what it is about Israel that makes them absolutely refuse to stop killing people for any reason at all. What a low content hateful post. Do better. Still at it I see. Excellent work. Just calling a spade a spade. You missed the point of my post. I haven't really been following the thread so I wanted to see if the new moral depths Israel has plummeted to recently has stopped you from cheering them on like a little fangirl. Good to know nothing has changed. Feel free to find me cheering, as usual you won’t. Just stop putting low content hateful posts and I’ll stop pointing it out. Everyone gets mad at various people for not calling their side. But there is a reason they don’t, you just end up with everyone mad because being hateful is cool and being a critical thinker is not. You are capable of being better, and you should be. If all you can see in my post is hatred, when its actually motivated by despair that Israel cannot help itself but wipe villages off the map and killing as many people as possible, then that says alot more about you than it does about me. They are not wiping villages off the map or killing as people as possible. Where are you getting this information from? Please link your sources. Katz and the IDF promised to raze villages close to the border (other sources quote up to 4 km from border). The Litani river of UNSCR 1701 fame is 20-30 km from the border. (There's still conflicting statements from various parties).
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On April 15 2026 05:56 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 05:43 WombaT wrote:On April 15 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:On April 15 2026 02:51 Nebuchad wrote:On April 15 2026 02:16 dyhb wrote:On April 14 2026 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
None of what you say is remotely true.
If you don’t understand that Hezbollah being disarmed is a huge win for Lebanon and the Lebanese people you don’t understand remotely the conflict or reason. You are just down the rabbit hole of hate and are the ignorant hateful person you claim to hate. Even an evil tyrant might accidentally improve the conditions and lives around him by prosecuting wars against their authoritarian oppressors for purely selfish reasons. Netanyahu is less than that for wanting a non-terrorist regime to the north of his country with ample weapons and will to kill Israeli civilians in its north. He isn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart for the Lebanese people, nor is it anything but stupid to discount the results based on the intentions. I think the anti-Israel blame, in some areas well-founded, has erased in the minds of the arguers just how terrible groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and the IRGC and the ayatollahs are for the innocents surrounding them. Israel gets more press simply because the western world has more influence on their actions. Any deal between Israel and Lebanon that creates peace and rids the Lebanese of Hezbollah control of their politics and southern territory is an unqualified victory for the Lebanese people. Anybody with a brain should be desiring that without whitewashing Israel's interests. What's your strategy to make sure that all of the Lebanese people who lose relatives and friends in this campaign to get rid of Hezbollah don't start feeling hatred toward Israel, hatred that will then be fueled by continued mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and will motivate them to form another terrible group that is bad for the innocents surrounding them and that you will have to kill a bunch of Lebanese people to get rid of in 30 years? I think they'll do a much better job than you at judging Hezbollah's oppression and intentions regarding the Lebanese people. As much as you would dismiss and ignore Hezbollah's actions after the US-Israel war on Iran, they saw the rocket and missile fire from Hezbollah into Israel first-hand. I just have to reject your premise here that it requires a strategy and their local observations are outweighed by propaganda coming from 100 miles away. On April 15 2026 03:02 Billyboy wrote:On April 15 2026 02:16 dyhb wrote:On April 14 2026 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
None of what you say is remotely true.
If you don’t understand that Hezbollah being disarmed is a huge win for Lebanon and the Lebanese people you don’t understand remotely the conflict or reason. You are just down the rabbit hole of hate and are the ignorant hateful person you claim to hate. Even an evil tyrant might accidentally improve the conditions and lives around him by prosecuting wars against their authoritarian oppressors for purely selfish reasons. Netanyahu is less than that for wanting a non-terrorist regime to the north of his country with ample weapons and will to kill Israeli civilians in its north. He isn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart for the Lebanese people, nor is it anything but stupid to discount the results based on the intentions. I think the anti-Israel blame, in some areas well-founded, has erased in the minds of the arguers just how terrible groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and the IRGC and the ayatollahs are for the innocents surrounding them. Israel gets more press simply because the western world has more influence on their actions. Any deal between Israel and Lebanon that creates peace and rids the Lebanese of Hezbollah control of their politics and southern territory is an unqualified victory for the Lebanese people. Anybody with a brain should be desiring that without whitewashing Israel's interests. I agree with most of what you said and I don’t think you would be able to find a post from me that suggests Netanyahu’s interests are anything other than self. What frustrates me is there are people in this thread that post as if groups like Hezbollah or Hamas are freedom fighters, which simply is not accurate. There are plenty of things to criticize Israel about that are real and proven. Iran being only in Iran should be a goal that everyone shares. If you don’t share it, you are either uninformed, filled with hatred or both. I think they really truly believe that Iranian proxies are legitimately concerned with the well-being of non-combatants. It's some kind of remix of the old pan-Arab nationalism movement or something. I don’t think thread denizens view Hezbollah, Hamas as honourable freedom fighters at all. The quibble is mostly if Israel should kill mostly civilians to eradicate those organisations in lieu of other potential avenues. Israel at this stage is just as hardline as an Iran, increasingly virulently nationalistic emboldened by the US and just bombs folks as they want. Polling, increasingly reflects this as well. The idea that a Netanyahu was doing certain things to deflect from unpopularity, and it didn’t reflect general Israeli sentiment and there was sizeable opposition used to have some legs, increasingly it appears it doesn’t. My christian friend born at tyr views hezbollah as such. Until 2023, the fpm was associated to the 8 march movement and distanced from hezbollah only after 2024. Lebanon is more complex than supremacists like billyboy who claim criticism toward ethnic cleansing is hateful portrays it.
Source on me being a supremacist?
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Northern Ireland26590 Posts
On April 15 2026 05:53 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 05:43 WombaT wrote:On April 15 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:On April 15 2026 02:51 Nebuchad wrote:On April 15 2026 02:16 dyhb wrote:On April 14 2026 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
None of what you say is remotely true.
If you don’t understand that Hezbollah being disarmed is a huge win for Lebanon and the Lebanese people you don’t understand remotely the conflict or reason. You are just down the rabbit hole of hate and are the ignorant hateful person you claim to hate. Even an evil tyrant might accidentally improve the conditions and lives around him by prosecuting wars against their authoritarian oppressors for purely selfish reasons. Netanyahu is less than that for wanting a non-terrorist regime to the north of his country with ample weapons and will to kill Israeli civilians in its north. He isn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart for the Lebanese people, nor is it anything but stupid to discount the results based on the intentions. I think the anti-Israel blame, in some areas well-founded, has erased in the minds of the arguers just how terrible groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and the IRGC and the ayatollahs are for the innocents surrounding them. Israel gets more press simply because the western world has more influence on their actions. Any deal between Israel and Lebanon that creates peace and rids the Lebanese of Hezbollah control of their politics and southern territory is an unqualified victory for the Lebanese people. Anybody with a brain should be desiring that without whitewashing Israel's interests. What's your strategy to make sure that all of the Lebanese people who lose relatives and friends in this campaign to get rid of Hezbollah don't start feeling hatred toward Israel, hatred that will then be fueled by continued mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and will motivate them to form another terrible group that is bad for the innocents surrounding them and that you will have to kill a bunch of Lebanese people to get rid of in 30 years? I think they'll do a much better job than you at judging Hezbollah's oppression and intentions regarding the Lebanese people. As much as you would dismiss and ignore Hezbollah's actions after the US-Israel war on Iran, they saw the rocket and missile fire from Hezbollah into Israel first-hand. I just have to reject your premise here that it requires a strategy and their local observations are outweighed by propaganda coming from 100 miles away. On April 15 2026 03:02 Billyboy wrote:On April 15 2026 02:16 dyhb wrote:On April 14 2026 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
None of what you say is remotely true.
If you don’t understand that Hezbollah being disarmed is a huge win for Lebanon and the Lebanese people you don’t understand remotely the conflict or reason. You are just down the rabbit hole of hate and are the ignorant hateful person you claim to hate. Even an evil tyrant might accidentally improve the conditions and lives around him by prosecuting wars against their authoritarian oppressors for purely selfish reasons. Netanyahu is less than that for wanting a non-terrorist regime to the north of his country with ample weapons and will to kill Israeli civilians in its north. He isn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart for the Lebanese people, nor is it anything but stupid to discount the results based on the intentions. I think the anti-Israel blame, in some areas well-founded, has erased in the minds of the arguers just how terrible groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and the IRGC and the ayatollahs are for the innocents surrounding them. Israel gets more press simply because the western world has more influence on their actions. Any deal between Israel and Lebanon that creates peace and rids the Lebanese of Hezbollah control of their politics and southern territory is an unqualified victory for the Lebanese people. Anybody with a brain should be desiring that without whitewashing Israel's interests. I agree with most of what you said and I don’t think you would be able to find a post from me that suggests Netanyahu’s interests are anything other than self. What frustrates me is there are people in this thread that post as if groups like Hezbollah or Hamas are freedom fighters, which simply is not accurate. There are plenty of things to criticize Israel about that are real and proven. Iran being only in Iran should be a goal that everyone shares. If you don’t share it, you are either uninformed, filled with hatred or both. I think they really truly believe that Iranian proxies are legitimately concerned with the well-being of non-combatants. It's some kind of remix of the old pan-Arab nationalism movement or something. I don’t think thread denizens view Hezbollah, Hamas as honourable freedom fighters at all. The quibble is mostly if Israel should kill mostly civilians to eradicate those organisations in lieu of other potential avenues. Israel at this stage is just as hardline as an Iran, increasingly virulently nationalistic emboldened by the US and just bombs folks as they want. Polling, increasingly reflects this as well. The idea that a Netanyahu was doing certain things to deflect from unpopularity, and it didn’t reflect general Israeli sentiment and there was sizeable opposition used to have some legs, increasingly it appears it doesn’t. They are not nearly as hard line. For example, in Israel no protesters have been killed. In Iran 10s of thousands have.
How many civilians have been killed in Palestine?
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On April 15 2026 05:59 dyhb wrote:
Hezbollah's been bad for Lebanon for many decades now, but they have international support and training and more money and arms and better organization than the civilian government. I dispute the assertion that their position within Lebanon is forgotten because of Hamas and Gaza and Israel. The oppressed don't simply hug and join their oppressors because of shared hatred of Israel.
But that's not really responsive. The oppressors that you describe here are mostly Lebanese people as well, so clearly in the past it has been the case that Lebanese people have decided to join Hezbollah despite what you're saying; I'm sure they still recruit new people currently. And presumably we agree that they do that based on those people's life experiences rather than propaganda. I think it makes a lot of sense to assume that the life experience of having another country aggressively bomb you, kill a bunch of your friends and relatives and take some of your land will lead to similar reactions in the future, regardless of how twisted a framing you manage to create.
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On April 15 2026 06:39 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 05:53 Billyboy wrote:On April 15 2026 05:43 WombaT wrote:On April 15 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:On April 15 2026 02:51 Nebuchad wrote:On April 15 2026 02:16 dyhb wrote:On April 14 2026 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
None of what you say is remotely true.
If you don’t understand that Hezbollah being disarmed is a huge win for Lebanon and the Lebanese people you don’t understand remotely the conflict or reason. You are just down the rabbit hole of hate and are the ignorant hateful person you claim to hate. Even an evil tyrant might accidentally improve the conditions and lives around him by prosecuting wars against their authoritarian oppressors for purely selfish reasons. Netanyahu is less than that for wanting a non-terrorist regime to the north of his country with ample weapons and will to kill Israeli civilians in its north. He isn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart for the Lebanese people, nor is it anything but stupid to discount the results based on the intentions. I think the anti-Israel blame, in some areas well-founded, has erased in the minds of the arguers just how terrible groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and the IRGC and the ayatollahs are for the innocents surrounding them. Israel gets more press simply because the western world has more influence on their actions. Any deal between Israel and Lebanon that creates peace and rids the Lebanese of Hezbollah control of their politics and southern territory is an unqualified victory for the Lebanese people. Anybody with a brain should be desiring that without whitewashing Israel's interests. What's your strategy to make sure that all of the Lebanese people who lose relatives and friends in this campaign to get rid of Hezbollah don't start feeling hatred toward Israel, hatred that will then be fueled by continued mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and will motivate them to form another terrible group that is bad for the innocents surrounding them and that you will have to kill a bunch of Lebanese people to get rid of in 30 years? I think they'll do a much better job than you at judging Hezbollah's oppression and intentions regarding the Lebanese people. As much as you would dismiss and ignore Hezbollah's actions after the US-Israel war on Iran, they saw the rocket and missile fire from Hezbollah into Israel first-hand. I just have to reject your premise here that it requires a strategy and their local observations are outweighed by propaganda coming from 100 miles away. On April 15 2026 03:02 Billyboy wrote:On April 15 2026 02:16 dyhb wrote:On April 14 2026 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
None of what you say is remotely true.
If you don’t understand that Hezbollah being disarmed is a huge win for Lebanon and the Lebanese people you don’t understand remotely the conflict or reason. You are just down the rabbit hole of hate and are the ignorant hateful person you claim to hate. Even an evil tyrant might accidentally improve the conditions and lives around him by prosecuting wars against their authoritarian oppressors for purely selfish reasons. Netanyahu is less than that for wanting a non-terrorist regime to the north of his country with ample weapons and will to kill Israeli civilians in its north. He isn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart for the Lebanese people, nor is it anything but stupid to discount the results based on the intentions. I think the anti-Israel blame, in some areas well-founded, has erased in the minds of the arguers just how terrible groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and the IRGC and the ayatollahs are for the innocents surrounding them. Israel gets more press simply because the western world has more influence on their actions. Any deal between Israel and Lebanon that creates peace and rids the Lebanese of Hezbollah control of their politics and southern territory is an unqualified victory for the Lebanese people. Anybody with a brain should be desiring that without whitewashing Israel's interests. I agree with most of what you said and I don’t think you would be able to find a post from me that suggests Netanyahu’s interests are anything other than self. What frustrates me is there are people in this thread that post as if groups like Hezbollah or Hamas are freedom fighters, which simply is not accurate. There are plenty of things to criticize Israel about that are real and proven. Iran being only in Iran should be a goal that everyone shares. If you don’t share it, you are either uninformed, filled with hatred or both. I think they really truly believe that Iranian proxies are legitimately concerned with the well-being of non-combatants. It's some kind of remix of the old pan-Arab nationalism movement or something. I don’t think thread denizens view Hezbollah, Hamas as honourable freedom fighters at all. The quibble is mostly if Israel should kill mostly civilians to eradicate those organisations in lieu of other potential avenues. Israel at this stage is just as hardline as an Iran, increasingly virulently nationalistic emboldened by the US and just bombs folks as they want. Polling, increasingly reflects this as well. The idea that a Netanyahu was doing certain things to deflect from unpopularity, and it didn’t reflect general Israeli sentiment and there was sizeable opposition used to have some legs, increasingly it appears it doesn’t. They are not nearly as hard line. For example, in Israel no protesters have been killed. In Iran 10s of thousands have. How many civilians have been killed in Palestine?
Hard to say since Israel claims most were Hamas and Hamas claims all were civilians. Around 70k total. But there is a real chance less civilians died in Gaza during their war then Iran killed in a couple weeks of protesters. And well the number is way to high, it is an absolute bollocks assertion that Israel was trying to kill as many as they could. If that was the case the number would be 7 figures.
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On April 15 2026 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 05:59 dyhb wrote:
Hezbollah's been bad for Lebanon for many decades now, but they have international support and training and more money and arms and better organization than the civilian government. I dispute the assertion that their position within Lebanon is forgotten because of Hamas and Gaza and Israel. The oppressed don't simply hug and join their oppressors because of shared hatred of Israel.
But that's not really responsive. The oppressors that you describe here are mostly Lebanese people as well, so clearly in the past it has been the case that Lebanese people have decided to join Hezbollah despite what you're saying; I'm sure they still recruit new people currently. And presumably we agree that they do that based on those people's life experiences rather than propaganda. I think it makes a lot of sense to assume that the life experience of having another country aggressively bomb you, kill a bunch of your friends and relatives and take some of your land will lead to similar reactions in the future, regardless of how twisted a framing you manage to create.
It’s true, very few people care why they or their family is getting bombed. All the Lebanese people I have met hate Israel, they also hate Hezbollah. Who they hate more seems to change. To your earlier point if Hezbollah goes away, there is no world where the Lebanese give Israel a warm embrace. That will take a long ass time of no bombs, like generational.
But with the actual Lebanon government making the choices , rather than Iran, there is a lot more hope.
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On April 15 2026 06:40 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2026 05:59 dyhb wrote:
Hezbollah's been bad for Lebanon for many decades now, but they have international support and training and more money and arms and better organization than the civilian government. I dispute the assertion that their position within Lebanon is forgotten because of Hamas and Gaza and Israel. The oppressed don't simply hug and join their oppressors because of shared hatred of Israel.
But that's not really responsive. The oppressors that you describe here are mostly Lebanese people as well, so clearly in the past it has been the case that Lebanese people have decided to join Hezbollah despite what you're saying; I'm sure they still recruit new people currently. And presumably we agree that they do that based on those people's life experiences rather than propaganda. I think it makes a lot of sense to assume that the life experience of having another country aggressively bomb you, kill a bunch of your friends and relatives and take some of your land will lead to similar reactions in the future, regardless of how twisted a framing you manage to create. The post-October 7th world has changed the recruitment scenario slightly. Prior to that, you were part of an Iranian-funded and trained state-within-a-state with over 100,000 rockets ready to fire on Israel the zionist entity, with ample reason to believe you could obliterate the zionist entity (as Hezbollah's charter declares). Now, it's a teeny tiny bit different. Your longtime leader is dead, his deputies got pagered, the rocket attacks are now sporatic with depleted inventory, and your former base of operation is occupied by a hostile army.
So I reject the look to past recruitment to present recruitment. I'll repeat the full answer for your benefit. The Lebanese people outnumber Hezbollah, but have been under the thumb of Hezbollah, and are under no mystical belief that the Israel-Gaza situation upsets that status. They have seen the Hezbollah missiles and rockets flying to Israel, and have seen the missiles and rockets flying back. Bringing up Gaza-Israel as a primary motivation for the Lebanese to join terrorist regimes, given their experience with the current terror regime, is nonsense and I think you know it.
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