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On November 10 2020 16:20 Shingi11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 15:49 Mohdoo wrote:On November 10 2020 14:48 Shingi11 wrote:
McConnell is poison for America but he at least has a rhyme for his reason most of the time. Him supporting trump makes no sense. Anyone with a ounce of sense know trump lost, whats he get out of it. Keeping trump’s base energized for Georgia is the only way he keeps senate majority. He needs to ride the Trump bullshit to keep his influence. Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 15:51 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 10 2020 14:48 Shingi11 wrote:
McConnell is poison for America but he at least has a rhyme for his reason most of the time. Him supporting trump makes no sense. Anyone with a ounce of sense know trump lost, whats he get out of it. The Republican Party has everything to lose if they alienate Trump. He single handily created 15 million voters that will vote republican only if trump is in there friend zone. Pissing off trump means these voters just go away, and most likely never coming back. Without trump, they go from being favourites in the majority of senate seats and getting back house, to losing everything I get why Loffer and Predue would want to do it but i guess i did not make the same connection with McConnell. Seems like it will make the party crash that much harder when you have the majority leader parroting the bogus claims when they find absolutely nothing.
Losing is a 1 or a 0. Crashing and burning is no worse than crashing. If McConnell loses the senate its game over
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On November 10 2020 16:20 Shingi11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 15:49 Mohdoo wrote:On November 10 2020 14:48 Shingi11 wrote:
McConnell is poison for America but he at least has a rhyme for his reason most of the time. Him supporting trump makes no sense. Anyone with a ounce of sense know trump lost, whats he get out of it. Keeping trump’s base energized for Georgia is the only way he keeps senate majority. He needs to ride the Trump bullshit to keep his influence. Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 15:51 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 10 2020 14:48 Shingi11 wrote:
McConnell is poison for America but he at least has a rhyme for his reason most of the time. Him supporting trump makes no sense. Anyone with a ounce of sense know trump lost, whats he get out of it. The Republican Party has everything to lose if they alienate Trump. He single handily created 15 million voters that will vote republican only if trump is in there friend zone. Pissing off trump means these voters just go away, and most likely never coming back. Without trump, they go from being favourites in the majority of senate seats and getting back house, to losing everything I get why Loffer and Predue would want to do it but i guess i did not make the same connection with McConnell. Seems like it will make the party crash that much harder when you have the majority leader parroting the bogus claims when they find absolutely nothing.
It's kind of late to decide that Trump's voters suddenly care if claims are bogus or not. He has been lying non-stop for four years and they love him for it.
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On November 10 2020 16:26 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 16:20 Shingi11 wrote:On November 10 2020 15:49 Mohdoo wrote:On November 10 2020 14:48 Shingi11 wrote:
McConnell is poison for America but he at least has a rhyme for his reason most of the time. Him supporting trump makes no sense. Anyone with a ounce of sense know trump lost, whats he get out of it. Keeping trump’s base energized for Georgia is the only way he keeps senate majority. He needs to ride the Trump bullshit to keep his influence. On November 10 2020 15:51 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 10 2020 14:48 Shingi11 wrote:
McConnell is poison for America but he at least has a rhyme for his reason most of the time. Him supporting trump makes no sense. Anyone with a ounce of sense know trump lost, whats he get out of it. The Republican Party has everything to lose if they alienate Trump. He single handily created 15 million voters that will vote republican only if trump is in there friend zone. Pissing off trump means these voters just go away, and most likely never coming back. Without trump, they go from being favourites in the majority of senate seats and getting back house, to losing everything I get why Loffer and Predue would want to do it but i guess i did not make the same connection with McConnell. Seems like it will make the party crash that much harder when you have the majority leader parroting the bogus claims when they find absolutely nothing. Losing is a 1 or a 0. Crashing and burning is no worse than crashing. If McConnell loses the senate its game over
I think crashing and burning is somewhat worse. Because a crash can imply that there's a tiny chance of a comeback in some way, whereas crashing and burning is the worst possible outcome of a situation with 0 chance of recovery from that loss.
Edit: Sorry if that came across pedantic, but hat's just my ocd kicking in here. 
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The situation is just incredibly difficult to handle for the republican party. Thinking back to 2016, the Republicans really did not like Donald Trump. They outright hated him for what he did to the party. He ended up being popular though. Standing behind Trump gave them power in the senate and it gave them the presidency. That‘s why so many Republicans made a 180 degree turn in the first place, not because they liked his views or policies. I‘m not saying that every Republican hated Trump for what he stood for, but I am quite sure that if there was a similarly popular candidate, many Republicans would have given up on Trump a long time ago.
And now the situation just got stupidly confusing. On the one side, they have the popularity because of Trump. He got tons and tons of votes even this year. He has a fanbase like no other Republican out there and many of these voters would just give up on the party if they alienated him. And at the same time the anti-trump sentiment on the other side got even more people to vote against him. This basically means that they are stuck in between depending on him for their power and at the same time having to get rid of him to avoid pulling so many anti-voters to vote. That‘s why I understand that they do not back off right now.
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the fact a con like him can get so many votes is downright appalling and makes a lot of Americans so God damn naive.
Trump has highhandedly raped journalism and media and morally corrupt the system.
There needs to be serious consequences for doing shit like that. I am not just talking jail and I'm not just talking about him either.
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United States24784 Posts
On November 10 2020 13:49 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 13:20 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
The head of Election Crimes at DoJ just quit because of Barr's memo
Another cowardly resignation allowing for some stooge to take his place.
Why is it cowardly? If the choices are "Resign and a stooge replaces you" or "Say 'I won't do that' and get forcibly replaced with a stooge," the result is the same, isn't it?
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Mark Esper should've said its a fake news firing and taken to trying to tie his firing up in the courts when it happens
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On November 10 2020 20:52 Zambrah wrote:
Mark Esper should've said its a fake news firing and taken to trying to tie his firing up in the courts when it happens
Wait what? Again? Do you have a source for this?
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On November 10 2020 21:22 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 20:52 Zambrah wrote:
Mark Esper should've said its a fake news firing and taken to trying to tie his firing up in the courts when it happens Wait what? Again? Do you have a source for this?
I think you misread. He isn't saying that's what Mark Esper *is* doing, but what he *should be* doing. However, insofar as I understood he wasn't even properly fired, but rather he was "forced to resign". If he really didn't want to, he wouldn't have.
E: nvm, he was apparently fired by tweet, and already wrote his letter of acceptance. So he never had a chance to "not resign", but he could have tried not accepting being fired... but didn't.
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I was basically just making a joke that Esper should take his firin/being forced to resign like Trump is taking his election loss, lol
Hopefully this doesnt lead to some sickening yes man letting Trump invoke the insurrection act to sic the military on protestors though. I can 100% see that being Trump's extremely spiteful plan to extract vengeance on people he might believe cost him the election.
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On November 10 2020 22:03 Zambrah wrote:
I was basically just making a joke that Esper should take his firin/being forced to resign like Trump is taking his election loss, lol
Hopefully this doesnt lead to some sickening yes man letting Trump invoke the insurrection act to sic the military on protestors though. I can 100% see that being Trump's extremely spiteful plan to extract vengeance on people he might believe cost him the election.
He should really be vengeful on the Covid virus then, but unfortunately dealing with the virus will be at the very bottom of his priorities right now.
Calling the Republicans out for that might be a good move by the Dems.
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Im not sure how much good calling out the Republicans is, I mean they seem pretty immune to the consequences of their actions at this point, Im of the opinion Democrats (if they were capable of change) should focus on pushing their GA runoff races with promises of their stimulus package. "We NEED these two seats! If you elect Warnock and Ossoff, we will push a stimulus bill that does blah, blah, blah things you like through the Senate to make sure you get the care you need!"
I'm afraid thats a little beyond Democratic leadership though.
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On November 10 2020 19:56 StarStruck wrote:
the fact a con like him can get so many votes is downright appalling and makes a lot of Americans so God damn naive.
Trump has highhandedly raped journalism and media and morally corrupt the system.
There needs to be serious consequences for doing shit like that. I am not just talking jail and I'm not just talking about him either.
I don't think that people realize how blatantly fascist and creepy everything surrounding the Trump phenomenon is.
Who is the last candidate that you remember that had this kind of cult of personality? The flags, the "greatest president ever", the incredible amount of worship for him that is peddled by a majority of his supporters, the "only he can save us" rhetoric, all the QAnon, Pizzagate, and "deep state" conspiracy theories, etc. A lot of my family are rural Trumpers and it is incredibly disturbing how much they worship this man. They indoctrinate their children to "love the president" and have their children draw overtly nationalist pictures of Trump in school and then post them to Facebook.
This shit is creepy and it amazes me that it isn't acknowledged as such. It's not isolated to corners of the internet; it is very much alive in most Trump-heavy communities in America.
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Obama had a person cult, even though it probably can't be compared. A very special trait of Obama was how the various serious scandals during his presidency, like the Merkel phone tapping, never stuck on him personally. He must have known, and was ultimately responsable...
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Norway28874 Posts
I've really never been a fan of the 'evil or stupid' designation, but at this point, supporting Trump is a case of being a fascist, or of being ignorant. I can forgive ignorance (but sadly the rabbit hole is so deep I dunno how one escapes it).
It's a naked, completely transparent attempt at invalidating a valid election result. Any Trump supporter either sees this, accepts it (and is a fascist), or lives in an information bubble where nothing bad took place. I can't think of a comparison in any western country in the past 50 years. It looks like American institutions are holding, but the near permanent damage is already done.
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Bisutopia19371 Posts
On November 10 2020 22:49 Zambrah wrote:
Im not sure how much good calling out the Republicans is, I mean they seem pretty immune to the consequences of their actions at this point, Im of the opinion Democrats (if they were capable of change) should focus on pushing their GA runoff races with promises of their stimulus package. "We NEED these two seats! If you elect Warnock and Ossoff, we will push a stimulus bill that does blah, blah, blah things you like through the Senate to make sure you get the care you need!"
I'm afraid thats a little beyond Democratic leadership though.
That message as you relay it translates to me "We NEED to spend 3 trillion dollars and if we have enough seats we can pass through anything we want on that bill". I'd need to be convinced that Pork barrel politics isn't happening.
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On November 10 2020 23:42 JimmiC wrote:This is the long term damage and I'm not sure how your repair it. Over 70 % of Republicans think it was not a fair election. Like holy shit that is such a huge problem for every American and leaves a gaping hole for the next wanna be dictator to take another crack. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488Donald Trump did not make make America great, he objectivly severely damaged the American democracy. And this is not hyperbole or subjective. It is factually what he did and sadly his largest and likely longest lasting legacy. The Republicans in power need to get their heads out of their asses and think about this long term. , this is a VERY big deal.
You make the mistake of assuming that GOP leadership cares in the slightest about the health of American democracy.
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On November 10 2020 23:41 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 22:49 Zambrah wrote:
Im not sure how much good calling out the Republicans is, I mean they seem pretty immune to the consequences of their actions at this point, Im of the opinion Democrats (if they were capable of change) should focus on pushing their GA runoff races with promises of their stimulus package. "We NEED these two seats! If you elect Warnock and Ossoff, we will push a stimulus bill that does blah, blah, blah things you like through the Senate to make sure you get the care you need!"
I'm afraid thats a little beyond Democratic leadership though. That message as you relay it translates to me "We NEED to spend 3 trillion dollars and if we have enough seats we can pass through anything we want on that bill". I'd need to be convinced that Pork barrel politics isn't happening.
It's for COVID and mostly just matches our spending on the issue to other countries. Lockdowns have gone over much better in those countries because they subsidized their citizens to deal with the economic side-effects.
In the long run the human death and long term economic damage of COVID surge are going to make it the cheaper option.
Pork barrel politics does always happen, but the eye popping numbers on this really aren't due to pork.
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What I'm witnessing down south mirrors something I expect from Belarus with Lukashenko or other former Soviet satellites with no strong tradition of democracy. While I do have faith your institutions will prevail, this brinkmanship will leave a long-lasting wound to your democracy. My deep-seated worry from this, especially after the poll that shows a mere 34% of Republicans now believe the election was trustworthy, hearkens to something David Frum wrote: "If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy."
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EPT
