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2020 US Election - Page 288

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Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-10 14:56:51
November 10 2020 14:54 GMT
#5741
The partisan gap is massive, but we've had two elections in recent times that fewer people thought of as less fair : the 2016 (53%) and the 2000 (50%) elections.

2020 has 60% overall, in spite of it only being 27% of the GOP. These overall numbers are similar to 92 and 96.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 10 2020 15:03 GMT
#5742
--- Nuked ---
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
November 10 2020 15:15 GMT
#5743
On November 11 2020 00:03 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2020 23:45 darthfoley wrote:
On November 10 2020 23:42 JimmiC wrote:
This is the long term damage and I'm not sure how your repair it. Over 70 % of Republicans think it was not a fair election. Like holy shit that is such a huge problem for every American and leaves a gaping hole for the next wanna be dictator to take another crack.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488


Donald Trump did not make make America great, he objectivly severely damaged the American democracy. And this is not hyperbole or subjective. It is factually what he did and sadly his largest and likely longest lasting legacy.

The Republicans in power need to get their heads out of their asses and think about this long term. , this is a VERY big deal.


You make the mistake of assuming that GOP leadership cares in the slightest about the health of American democracy.

They will care as soon as the shoe is on the other foot. Smart leaderships realizes that these issues effect both and all. Sadly we don't see a lot of smart leadership these days. Just short term BS. And the worst part is the short term BS wins elections.


The Democrats would never sink to these depths though. That's the point. Only Republicans would embrace this sort of messaging.wholeheartedly.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-10 15:30:14
November 10 2020 15:27 GMT
#5744
--- Nuked ---
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
November 10 2020 15:33 GMT
#5745
On November 11 2020 00:27 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2020 00:15 iamthedave wrote:
On November 11 2020 00:03 JimmiC wrote:
On November 10 2020 23:45 darthfoley wrote:
On November 10 2020 23:42 JimmiC wrote:
This is the long term damage and I'm not sure how your repair it. Over 70 % of Republicans think it was not a fair election. Like holy shit that is such a huge problem for every American and leaves a gaping hole for the next wanna be dictator to take another crack.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488


Donald Trump did not make make America great, he objectivly severely damaged the American democracy. And this is not hyperbole or subjective. It is factually what he did and sadly his largest and likely longest lasting legacy.

The Republicans in power need to get their heads out of their asses and think about this long term. , this is a VERY big deal.


You make the mistake of assuming that GOP leadership cares in the slightest about the health of American democracy.

They will care as soon as the shoe is on the other foot. Smart leaderships realizes that these issues effect both and all. Sadly we don't see a lot of smart leadership these days. Just short term BS. And the worst part is the short term BS wins elections.


The Democrats would never sink to these depths though. That's the point. Only Republicans would embrace this sort of messaging.wholeheartedly.

I'm not so sure the Dems are immune to the same type of "firebrand populist" stirring up emotions of the masses. It would be different messaging but similar results. There is a reason that Authoritarians vote as a block and not with their political leaning. Because dictators are not left or right, that is the the messaging of their scapegoating, they are all about them and their power. See Venezuela, Iran, China, Russia, NK, SA, Turkey, Syria so on.

PreTrump I'm sure republicans would have told you they were immune also.


No one is immune but it’s far less likely to happen in the Democratic Party as that party is far more divided than the Republican Party. There isn’t a wing like the Progressives inside of the GOP. You are correct though that all Americans, not just conservatives, should be looking at this and realizing that without vigilance partisan politics can make a swipe at subverting our nation.

Conservatives in the US need to take a hard look in the mirror and ask themselves at what point they condemn Trump. After every court case is dismissed or lost? After Biden is inaugurated? After a year of Trump continuing to claim there was massive fraud?

And if you don’t have an answer to that question then I’d contend you aren’t a supporter of the constitution, of our democratic processes, or of America as a whole.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-10 16:15:25
November 10 2020 16:15 GMT
#5746
I think at least part of what has the GOP cornered is that the (comparatively) easier way to argue about the fairness of the election-the problem of voter suppression-is 1) a well-worn Democratic talking point they have spent years completely ignoring and 2) actually almost certainly helps them. Plus, they don't want to imply it should be easier to vote, since a pillar of what's left of their platform is...well...keeping it hard to vote.

The only thing left is to finally put their money where their mouth is on decades of insinuating shadowy cabals are directly deducting votes from their candidates and adding votes to their opponents. Of course, if that's where the fraud is occurring, it's awfully strange to still be pushing voter ID and limited early voting hours, but that cognitive dissonance won't hit them ever.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
November 10 2020 16:28 GMT
#5747
On November 11 2020 01:15 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I think at least part of what has the GOP cornered is that the (comparatively) easier way to argue about the fairness of the election-the problem of voter suppression-is 1) a well-worn Democratic talking point they have spent years completely ignoring and 2) actually almost certainly helps them. Plus, they don't want to imply it should be easier to vote, since a pillar of what's left of their platform is...well...keeping it hard to vote.

The only thing left is to finally put their money where their mouth is on decades of insinuating shadowy cabals are directly deducting votes from their candidates and adding votes to their opponents. Of course, if that's where the fraud is occurring, it's awfully strange to still be pushing voter ID and limited early voting hours, but that cognitive dissonance won't hit them ever.


I think this is what Barr is doing. The DOJ has full authority to investigate aspects of election fraud that may have changed the outcome, but nothing less than that. The only thing that is unclear to me is how long this supposed investigation will go. Do they just investigate forever? When does Barr say "Ok, now assemble your evidence and lets look over it"? Does this just go on until the actual delegate vote?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-10 16:39:17
November 10 2020 16:35 GMT
#5748
I vacillate between grave concern and relief and I don't expect that to change until December 14 at the earliest.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-10 16:55:31
November 10 2020 16:52 GMT
#5749
Trump's apparently running out of money to keep his campaign employed, according to Yahoo, which isn't going to help with launching a series of extremely expensive (and pointless) lawsuits.

A lot of the people fired are expected, but many of them weren't expecting to be downsized.
The former Trump campaign adviser attributed the need to shed staff to the fact the operation is “dry on cash.” In the final months of the election, heavy spending by Trump’s team eroded a financial advantage he was expected to have over Biden. During the past few days, the campaign has aggressively raised funds in support of its election challenges. According to Murtaugh, Trump’s team would have what it needed to keep challenging the election.“We are raising significant amounts of money to fuel the president’s challenges and will retain appropriate staff to see the post-election process through to the president’s victory,” he said.
[...]
The Republican source, who described post-election layoffs as a normal part of political campaigns, had questions about the scope of the campaign’s challenge efforts even before layoffs. The source noted that Utah Sen. Mitt Romney, who was the Republican nominee in 2012, had a robust operation for a potential challenge that year with a team of election lawyers and planes on standby to take them to key states.

In contrast, the source accused the Trump’s campaign of having “zero planning” with “no legit poll watching or recount plans” and staffers appearing on TV to make wild and baseless allegations rather than a serious team of lawyers and experts.

“Waving around the political equivalent of a bloody rag is no substitute for legitimate planning,” the Republican source said.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-campaign-staff-234417901.html

Regarding GA recouts, Gabriel Sterling, Georgia Voting System Implementation Manager, acknowledges that they'll find some illegal votes, but not 10k+ worth.
(in recent elections, the vast amount of found to be illegitimate votes have been from republicans as well).
“We are going to find that people did illegally vote,” Sterling said at a press conference with reporters on Monday. “That is going to happen. There are going to be double voters. There are going to be people who did not have the qualifications, for a registered voter, to vote in this state. That will be found.”
“Is it 10,353? Unlikely.”

https://www.c-span.org/video/?477943-1/news-conference-georgia-vote-count (transcript is on the page)

A hypocrisy compilation from GOP talking heads regarding the 2018 election results, if you want, from the daily show. (I wouldn't post this in the normal pol thread, but relaxed standards and all)
+ Show Spoiler +


Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22663 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-10 18:29:53
November 10 2020 18:29 GMT
#5750
On November 11 2020 01:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2020 01:15 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I think at least part of what has the GOP cornered is that the (comparatively) easier way to argue about the fairness of the election-the problem of voter suppression-is 1) a well-worn Democratic talking point they have spent years completely ignoring and 2) actually almost certainly helps them. Plus, they don't want to imply it should be easier to vote, since a pillar of what's left of their platform is...well...keeping it hard to vote.

The only thing left is to finally put their money where their mouth is on decades of insinuating shadowy cabals are directly deducting votes from their candidates and adding votes to their opponents. Of course, if that's where the fraud is occurring, it's awfully strange to still be pushing voter ID and limited early voting hours, but that cognitive dissonance won't hit them ever.


I think this is what Barr is doing. The DOJ has full authority to investigate aspects of election fraud that may have changed the outcome, but nothing less than that. The only thing that is unclear to me is how long this supposed investigation will go. Do they just investigate forever? When does Barr say "Ok, now assemble your evidence and lets look over it"? Does this just go on until the actual delegate vote?
I fully expect it go on until the delegates vote and then quietly get closed down. Unless they find something of course (highly unlikely).

That is basically what happened to every other bogus investigation Barr's DoJ has done.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
November 10 2020 18:52 GMT
#5751
Pompeo promising a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration” certainly raises the stock of the “democracy uninstalls” scenario a bit.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
November 10 2020 18:56 GMT
#5752
Queue "we're not a democracy we're a republic" talk.

God, can you even fucking imagine this shit show if a real actual human being with brain meat in their head had a cabal of actually competent and capable sycophants to pull this shit with?
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 10 2020 19:04 GMT
#5753
On November 11 2020 03:56 Zambrah wrote:
Queue "we're not a democracy we're a republic" talk.

God, can you even fucking imagine this shit show if a real actual human being with brain meat in their head had a cabal of actually competent and capable sycophants to pull this shit with?

Or was charismatic enough to be likeable to >50% of the country.
Moderator
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
November 10 2020 19:05 GMT
#5754
It'll happen soon if we keep doing what caused people to want to elect Trump...
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
November 10 2020 19:10 GMT
#5755
On November 11 2020 03:52 ChristianS wrote:
Pompeo promising a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration” certainly raises the stock of the “democracy uninstalls” scenario a bit.


I thought the idea that a “civil war” could occur was beyond stupid. If they actually push forward and try to install Trump into a second term then I don’t see how the country doesn’t enter a civil war.

Why would states remain in the Republic if their votes don’t elect the Chief Executive?
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9331 Posts
November 10 2020 19:16 GMT
#5756
Even assuming Trump will actively resist his replacement, do you seriously believe republicans and republican leaning officials would continue to stand by his side after he loses the last court case?
You're now breathing manually
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
November 10 2020 19:21 GMT
#5757
On November 11 2020 04:16 Sent. wrote:
Even assuming Trump will actively resist his replacement, do you seriously believe republicans and republican leaning officials would continue to stand by his side after he loses the last court case?


No. But I also didn’t think they’d show support initially so not much is going to surprise me.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
November 10 2020 19:22 GMT
#5758
On November 11 2020 04:16 Sent. wrote:
Even assuming Trump will actively resist his replacement, do you seriously believe republicans and republican leaning officials would continue to stand by his side after he loses the last court case?

I’m still 98% sure they won’t and Biden will become President without issue. But it increasingly looks like these people have incorporated supporting Republicans and believing Republicans’ assessments of reality into their definition of patriotism. That seems certain to turn ugly regardless of what happens in the next 2.5 months. Likelihood of becoming a failed state still seems low for the moment at least.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2840 Posts
November 10 2020 19:26 GMT
#5759
On November 11 2020 03:56 Zambrah wrote:
Queue "we're not a democracy we're a republic" talk.

God, can you even fucking imagine this shit show if a real actual human being with brain meat in their head had a cabal of actually competent and capable sycophants to pull this shit with?


We're all waiting for a vaccine against covid, but hopefully Trump has been a vaccine against fascism. Doesn't much look like it at the moment, but that's kinda what my hope is.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
November 10 2020 19:26 GMT
#5760
Biden is already getting protection from the U.S on top of it, Hilary nor Obama are in jail. I think those would be very concerning aspects. I don't see it going well for Trump, especially after how Fox have been slowly turning their back on Trump. Barr is definitely one person I would like to see in jail. It will soon have a domino effect afterwards. I read Biden will keep Wray, meaning the FBI seem to really insure the protection of the elections. Especially with his integrity video that he came out with.

My only real concern is not within the government itself, it's with the people that Trump has embolden. I definitely see an increase in violence through out the U.S. Many people did not get their way, so they're going to force their way.
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