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United States10569 Posts
On November 10 2020 05:52 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 05:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya. It's always telling when a conservative tries to define the Democratic party as "elitist/ivory tower academics/etc." when all of the party's success relies overwhelmingly on working class BIPOC. Well I see nothing is going to change. Good news for Republicans I suppose. Sorry I interrupted your echo chamber. (PS Im not a conservative)PPS The one good thing Trump has done (bringing troops home and bashing NATO) gets shit on by everyone especially the bipartisan foreign policy establishment. Theyre so out of touch.
In the famous words of Dave Chappelle: just because I'm dressed this way...
If he talks like a conservative, supports conservatives, quacks like a conservative... i mean, you know, your idol is probably ben shapiro and you're really a waterlemon.
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On November 10 2020 05:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 05:15 Zambrah wrote:
Yes, Republicans use no identity politics, Trump definitely doesn't use identity politics, appealing to any demographic, which basically all politicians do, is definitely not identity politics. It's baffling that conservatives don't see a specific appeal to the return to the white male Christian dominated past, encapsulated by MAGA, as identity politics. It's like how if the country is 70% white and 30% non white they believe that tv should feature 100% white people because white is the default and that anyone non white is some kind of intrusion by diversity obsessed leftists. They're a narrow identity group that has convinced themselves that they're the default and that it means they can't be an identity group. That "Happy Holidays" is identity politics but that "Merry Christmas" is not. No-one is more invested in identity politics than the modern conservatives.
Worth pointing out the term "identity politics" was coined by a collective of Black women to describe a politics that dealt with the intersectional nature of their oppression. It came about because there wasn't a party or political ideology that addressed oppression specific to Black women.
What conservatives (and Democrats for that matter) do isn't identity politics, it is a bastardization. Pretty much like welfare capitalism for corporations isn't socialism.
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On November 10 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing i have been wondering about is why Trump (at least seemingly) was supported more within black/latin population against Biden 2020 in comparison to Clinton 2016? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/tOqJ4se.jpg) https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/11/politics/election-analysis-exit-polls-2016-2020Idk if this has been talked about here before, but at least from what i know about Finnish news reporting about what Trump has said (or done), this should not have been the case by any means. Especially with all BLM etc things going on in USA.
Well one of the reasons is that the latino community is not a singular identity with equal ideologies or political background. Just as the different nationalities in Europe can have wildly different opinions. However, the Hispanic population is too often portrayed as such. Also as shown from your graphs, it could just be that the politics of Trump made men are more likely to vote trump, without regard of race or culture.
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On November 10 2020 06:54 Neneu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing i have been wondering about is why Trump (at least seemingly) was supported more within black/latin population against Biden 2020 in comparison to Clinton 2016? https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/11/politics/election-analysis-exit-polls-2016-2020Idk if this has been talked about here before, but at least from what i know about Finnish news reporting about what Trump has said (or done), this should not have been the case by any means. Especially with all BLM etc things going on in USA. Well one of the reasons is that the latino community is not a singular identity with equal ideologies or political background. Just as the different nationalities in Europe can have wildly different opinions. However, the Hispanic population is too often portrayed as such.
I think Van Jones was on CNN saying that the Dems need to stop treating the Hispanic population as one block if they want to have a future. It's really good advice and something I really hope the higher ups at the DNC listen too
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When hard pressed, they cannot show a single proof ahahaha
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On November 10 2020 06:54 Neneu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing i have been wondering about is why Trump (at least seemingly) was supported more within black/latin population against Biden 2020 in comparison to Clinton 2016? https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/11/politics/election-analysis-exit-polls-2016-2020Idk if this has been talked about here before, but at least from what i know about Finnish news reporting about what Trump has said (or done), this should not have been the case by any means. Especially with all BLM etc things going on in USA. Well one of the reasons is that the latino community is not a singular identity with equal ideologies or political background. Just as the different nationalities in Europe can have wildly different opinions. However, the Hispanic population is too often portrayed as such. Also as shown from your graphs, it could just be that the politics of Trump made men are more likely to vote trump, without regard of race or culture.
But isn't that disproven by the graph? That men are more likely to vote trump? Because for white men his support was cut by the most.
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On November 10 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing i have been wondering about is why Trump (at least seemingly) was supported more within black/latin population against Biden 2020 in comparison to Clinton 2016? https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/11/politics/election-analysis-exit-polls-2016-2020Idk if this has been talked about here before, but at least from what i know about Finnish news reporting about what Trump has said (or done), this should not have been the case by any means. Especially with all BLM etc things going on in USA.
Some of it is age.
Here's the 538 article on this :
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-partisan-gender-and-generational-differences-among-black-voters-heading-into-election-day/
And the relevant charts :
+ Show Spoiler +
This is the stat that stands out the most - basically, young black voters really don't care very much for the democratic party while 60+ black voters love it.
Democratic Party is “welcoming” to Black Americans:18-29: 47%, 60+:76%, Overall:61%
They also found the GOP more welcoming than the older generations, but we're talking 27% vs 2% : they're both still exceptionally low.
(It's also not really a mystery why Biden does better with White men than Hillary and worse with women)
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Nevuk do you have comparing charts for Trump vs Clinton?
EDIT: I mean i can clearly see and read a a chart that says 80-90% of black voters voted for a democrat. I know what that means. My question basically lies within the fact that Trump has been said to be the most racist president ever (or whatever) and so on so on, you know what's on media in Europe. If that's true, why has his support gone up among the people his racism targets?
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On November 10 2020 06:55 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 06:54 Neneu wrote:On November 10 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing i have been wondering about is why Trump (at least seemingly) was supported more within black/latin population against Biden 2020 in comparison to Clinton 2016? https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/11/politics/election-analysis-exit-polls-2016-2020Idk if this has been talked about here before, but at least from what i know about Finnish news reporting about what Trump has said (or done), this should not have been the case by any means. Especially with all BLM etc things going on in USA. Well one of the reasons is that the latino community is not a singular identity with equal ideologies or political background. Just as the different nationalities in Europe can have wildly different opinions. However, the Hispanic population is too often portrayed as such. I think Van Jones was on CNN saying that the Dems need to stop treating the Hispanic population as one block if they want to have a future. It's really good advice and something I really hope the higher ups at the DNC listen too
Well it makes a lot of sense. There are on average big differences between the political ideology of e.g. a Serbian and a Finn. Or a guy from Botswana and someone from Algerie. Or a someone from Vietnam and someone from South Korea. It sure is easier to group them all together and generalizing their background, but it is more complex than that.
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On November 10 2020 07:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nevuk do you have comparing charts for Trump vs Clinton?
Let me check. They wouldn't be very informative, so maybe not. This is because Trump was polling ... fourth among black voters. He had, quite literally, 2% among black voters in august 2016.
+ Show Spoiler +
For reference, the only people lower are the guy who opposed the Civil Rights act (Goldwater) and McCain vs Obama.
The issue Hillary had with black voters was lower turnout (especially among young men) than Obama had.
I couldn't find any easy charts, but here's some analysis from 2017 on it.
We saw last year how lower engagement among African-American voters is a serious problem for the Democrats, as black turnout declined nearly uniformly across all the swing states in 2016.
Turnout did not decline equally among all parts of the African-American electorate. The dropoff was particularly steep among men, and especially young men. Across the swing states for which we have voter files, turnout among black men aged 18-29 was 22 percent lower than 2012 levels, while it rose 7 percent among white men in the same age group. Age aside, we also see steeper differences in turnout rates along gender lines among African-Americans than any other racial group.
Black Turnout 2016 vs expected: Female -7.2% Male -11.3%
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/black-voters-arent-turning-out-for-the-post-obama-democratic-party/
So what we're seeing in 2020 is likely some disillusioned young black (particularly male) voters voting for Trump rather than staying home (but overall, the higher turnout still boosts Biden more).
On November 10 2020 07:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
EDIT: I mean i can clearly see and read a a chart that says 80-90% of black voters voted for a democrat. I know what that means. My question basically lies within the fact that Trump has been said to be the most racist president ever (or whatever) and so on so on, you know what's on media in Europe. If that's true, why has his support gone up among the people his racism targets?
It's because the younger generation just doesn't seem to think he's as racist as the older generations.
Couple of reasons. One is that the older generations remember him as a slumlord who was found guilty of being racist against his tenants in the 70s. The other part is the same thing as with the latino population - his weird, fake machismo posturing comes across well to certain subcultures (at one point Trump was a popular reference in some types of rap, for a similar reason. That died out super hard after he ran for president though).
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On November 10 2020 06:51 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 05:52 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya. It's always telling when a conservative tries to define the Democratic party as "elitist/ivory tower academics/etc." when all of the party's success relies overwhelmingly on working class BIPOC. Well I see nothing is going to change. Good news for Republicans I suppose. Sorry I interrupted your echo chamber. (PS Im not a conservative)PPS The one good thing Trump has done (bringing troops home and bashing NATO) gets shit on by everyone especially the bipartisan foreign policy establishment. Theyre so out of touch. In the famous words of Dave Chappelle: just because I'm dressed this way... If he talks like a conservative, supports conservatives, quacks like a conservative... i mean, you know, your idol is probably ben shapiro and you're really a waterlemon.
It's always nice when Wegandi visits from the alternate reality he lives in.
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On November 10 2020 07:20 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 06:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 10 2020 05:52 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya. It's always telling when a conservative tries to define the Democratic party as "elitist/ivory tower academics/etc." when all of the party's success relies overwhelmingly on working class BIPOC. Well I see nothing is going to change. Good news for Republicans I suppose. Sorry I interrupted your echo chamber. (PS Im not a conservative)PPS The one good thing Trump has done (bringing troops home and bashing NATO) gets shit on by everyone especially the bipartisan foreign policy establishment. Theyre so out of touch. In the famous words of Dave Chappelle: just because I'm dressed this way... If he talks like a conservative, supports conservatives, quacks like a conservative... i mean, you know, your idol is probably ben shapiro and you're really a waterlemon. It's always nice when Wegandi visits from the alternate reality he lives in.
The people who live on TL live in alternate reality. At least I am aware my political leanings are not gonna go anywhere nationally. Y'all are delusional. Go move to VT or OR or w/e and build your paradise. (Just stay away from NH)
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On November 10 2020 07:26 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 07:20 iamthedave wrote:On November 10 2020 06:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 10 2020 05:52 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya. It's always telling when a conservative tries to define the Democratic party as "elitist/ivory tower academics/etc." when all of the party's success relies overwhelmingly on working class BIPOC. Well I see nothing is going to change. Good news for Republicans I suppose. Sorry I interrupted your echo chamber. (PS Im not a conservative)PPS The one good thing Trump has done (bringing troops home and bashing NATO) gets shit on by everyone especially the bipartisan foreign policy establishment. Theyre so out of touch. In the famous words of Dave Chappelle: just because I'm dressed this way... If he talks like a conservative, supports conservatives, quacks like a conservative... i mean, you know, your idol is probably ben shapiro and you're really a waterlemon. It's always nice when Wegandi visits from the alternate reality he lives in. The people who live on TL live in alternate reality. At least I am aware my political leanings are not gonna go anywhere nationally. Y'all are delusional. Go move to VT or OR or w/e and build your paradise. (Just stay away from NH)
If you are convinced of this so, what are you doing here?
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On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya.
You get a lot of critizism for saying this i saw but i have to admit this is true to some extend,and i would like to add climate change to this as well though that is a bit of a complicated issue in general (and so are identity politics).
I am not saying the way the left has changed is bad btw,there has to be attention for minoritys and for creating a society with equall opportunitys for everyone and there also has to be attention for climate change.
But the way the left did slowly change since the 70,s is one of the bigger reasons why the left did lose a lot of its traditional support from the working class.
Not only that,the way the left has changed did in the end also help enable trump and many populist partys in europe. It made room for a counter reaction.
The right wing populist now tap into this potential of working class people who feel left behind and disenfranchised by the changes in society. Ironically i might add as the populist right wont do anything to improve their situation on the contrary,but beeing populists and all they still manage to convince people as the alternative (the left) has become less apealing.
In this aspect the new left has somewhat increased polarization,not so much by itself but by giving an opportunity for right wing populists.
The new left should broaden its vieuw to also cater to their traditional base,the working class people in the lower income brackets,if not there will remain room for rightwing populists to do so.
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I see Mitch McConnell is refusing to recognize Biden’s victory. Not surprising from that sack of lard
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I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that an increasing number of people recognize the only way to get Democrats to give a damn about addressing their concerns is to rarely, if ever, vote for Democrats.
Black people have demonstrated decades of voting Democrat got them practically nothing to address the economic inequalities they've been hearing promises of incoming fixes for since the 60's.
EDIT: If it's not clear, white working class people voting for Trump causes Democrats to work harder for their vote, even if that means abandoning the Black people that overwhelmingly support them.
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On November 10 2020 07:26 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 07:20 iamthedave wrote:On November 10 2020 06:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 10 2020 05:52 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya. It's always telling when a conservative tries to define the Democratic party as "elitist/ivory tower academics/etc." when all of the party's success relies overwhelmingly on working class BIPOC. Well I see nothing is going to change. Good news for Republicans I suppose. Sorry I interrupted your echo chamber. (PS Im not a conservative)PPS The one good thing Trump has done (bringing troops home and bashing NATO) gets shit on by everyone especially the bipartisan foreign policy establishment. Theyre so out of touch. In the famous words of Dave Chappelle: just because I'm dressed this way... If he talks like a conservative, supports conservatives, quacks like a conservative... i mean, you know, your idol is probably ben shapiro and you're really a waterlemon. It's always nice when Wegandi visits from the alternate reality he lives in. The people who live on TL live in alternate reality. At least I am aware my political leanings are not gonna go anywhere nationally. Y'all are delusional. Go move to VT or OR or w/e and build your paradise. (Just stay away from NH)
They're all welcome in the four countries in europe.
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On November 10 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing i have been wondering about is why Trump (at least seemingly) was supported more within black/latin population against Biden 2020 in comparison to Clinton 2016? https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/11/politics/election-analysis-exit-polls-2016-2020Idk if this has been talked about here before, but at least from what i know about Finnish news reporting about what Trump has said (or done), this should not have been the case by any means. Especially with all BLM etc things going on in USA.
Biden has a horrible history with minority communities going all the way back to the issue of segregation (Biden fought to end race-integration busing). The Obama administration, which Biden was the Vice President of, is also responsible for deporting 3 million undocumented immigrants and the number 3 million is something many politically active Latino groups chant at Obama/Biden events. The Obama administration is also responsible for building and using the immigrant cages along the Mexico border that many people railed against Trump for. The forced sterilization being done by ICE that people are attacking Trump for was also started under the Obama administration. The Flint, Michigan water crisis also occurred under the Obama administration. All of these things and more, plus the fact that Trump is an incumbent and defeating an incumbent is notoriously difficult, explains why Biden did so much worse with minorities than Clinton.
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On November 10 2020 08:04 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2020 07:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 07:20 iamthedave wrote:On November 10 2020 06:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 10 2020 05:52 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 10 2020 05:26 Wegandi wrote:On November 10 2020 05:22 NewSunshine wrote:Do you also complain about there being no "Straight Pride" month during LGBTQ+ Pride? Here's the inside scoop that breaks it all down for you: every month is Straight Pride Month, by default. The reason we have to play "Identity Politics" is because we have an extremely exclusionary default. When the existing power dynamic - especially among Republicans - prohibits anything but Christian White Men from holding office, they don't have to advertise themselves. Doesn't mean they're not playing those vile Identity Politics you dislike so much. I could care less about whatever pride. I definitely hit the nerve. It's blindingly obvious that the brand of academic privileged identity politics is not so popular with the people you've decided you need to woo. You lost these people by replacing traditionally union class conscious with academic identity politics and PC culture (and everything that comes from that elitist mind set). There's a reason the Democrats are now the party of the college educated and 200k+ folks. I seem to remember all you guys shitting on woman VP Sarah Palin...ya but only white men. Ya. Ya. It's always telling when a conservative tries to define the Democratic party as "elitist/ivory tower academics/etc." when all of the party's success relies overwhelmingly on working class BIPOC. Well I see nothing is going to change. Good news for Republicans I suppose. Sorry I interrupted your echo chamber. (PS Im not a conservative)PPS The one good thing Trump has done (bringing troops home and bashing NATO) gets shit on by everyone especially the bipartisan foreign policy establishment. Theyre so out of touch. In the famous words of Dave Chappelle: just because I'm dressed this way... If he talks like a conservative, supports conservatives, quacks like a conservative... i mean, you know, your idol is probably ben shapiro and you're really a waterlemon. It's always nice when Wegandi visits from the alternate reality he lives in. The people who live on TL live in alternate reality. At least I am aware my political leanings are not gonna go anywhere nationally. Y'all are delusional. Go move to VT or OR or w/e and build your paradise. (Just stay away from NH) They're all welcome in the four countries in europe.
Apparently we have forest cities that somehow don't burn. A lot of windmills, though, so don't expect any birds.
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On November 10 2020 07:57 darthfoley wrote:
I see Mitch McConnell is refusing to recognize Biden’s victory. Not surprising from that sack of lard
He can refuse all he wants, he used the same voting system to get that win in Kentucky.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/conroybacon.BLACKVOTE.0923-2_edit.png?w=575)
![[image loading]](https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/enten-blackvoters-1.png?w=575)
