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On November 07 2020 00:54 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. Yeah and hopefully we also start being critical towards Biden. If he ends up being a shit president, it needs to be said. Part of the saddest thing with Trump is that there were so few of his voters who ended up reflecting and coming to the conclusion that they should probably not have voted for him.
Many people actually vote Trump cause of his pro business policies and not necessarily cause they like him.
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NBC's livestream just said that Trump said that "he has no plans to concede, no matter what."
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On November 07 2020 01:07 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 00:54 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. Yeah and hopefully we also start being critical towards Biden. If he ends up being a shit president, it needs to be said. Part of the saddest thing with Trump is that there were so few of his voters who ended up reflecting and coming to the conclusion that they should probably not have voted for him. Many people actually vote Trump cause of his pro business policies and not necessarily cause they like him.
It's not about liking him or not. It's about being absolutely disgusted by him or not.
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On November 07 2020 01:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
NBC's livestream just said that Trump said that "he has no plans to concede, no matter what."
Of course not. Thus he can go on book tours etc.
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United States44397 Posts
On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward.
I think we do, but not in the way you think. I think if we all agree everywhere that the die hard Trump supporters are idiots unlike those reasonable Republicans who can change their minds then most of the die hard Trump supporters will suddenly remember that they never really supported Trump after all.
It’s odd but shaming is genuinely the most effective tool to police social behaviour and humans are extremely capable of double think and hypocrisy. Shame them, but shame them as a group, and you’ll find very few people in that group.
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Can you imagine the transition meeting between Trump and Biden? If there is one at all, it certainly won't include Trump being humble or helpful at all.
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On November 07 2020 00:54 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. Yeah and hopefully we also start being critical towards Biden. If he ends up being a shit president, it needs to be said. Part of the saddest thing with Trump is that there were so few of his voters who ended up reflecting and coming to the conclusion that they should probably not have voted for him.
With so many tech jobs it always bums me out that it seems companies are insistent on being in places like California with bloated costs of living.
I'd like to see stuff that can be done remotely take place in rural states, if only for selfish reasons like I want to be able to get a job in games without having to live in an area that will drain a salary that would give me actual economic opportunities in states like Oklahoma or whatever, lol.
I'd like to see the government subsidize this and to see some massive drain from CA and it's ilk.
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On November 07 2020 01:10 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. I think we do, but not in the way you think. I think if we all agree everywhere that the die hard Trump supporters are idiots unlike those reasonable Republicans who can change their minds then most of the die hard Trump supporters will suddenly remember that they never really supported Trump after all. It’s odd but shaming is genuinely the most effective tool to police social behaviour and humans are extremely capable of double think and hypocrisy. Shame them, but shame them as a group, and you’ll find very few people in that group.
I'm not quite sure about that Kwark. I don't think anything good come out of shame, and even less of shaming. But I've lived long enough in the UK to know that it's very popular there.
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On November 07 2020 00:48 DucK- wrote:
Hi all.
In my part of the world, Trump is generally viewed as a joke of a POTUS, understandably due to his frequent media outbursts and flipping of stories. His handling of COVID is also deemed to be poor. However, I personally do not know much about what he has done to fairly critic his actual performance.
So I would like to just ask Americans here, why did you vote for Trump?
I didn't vote in 2016, but by the end I was somewhat leaning to Trump simply because of my poor opinion of Hilary Clinton.
In terms of why Trump has kept popularity, he knows how to charge up his base, holding rallies frequently throughout his presidency. Pre-COVID the economy was good.
I have no been swayed by his rhetoric of hate and fear however. Nor has his failure to uphold his promise to protect trucking jobs been great, as they blame who else but immigrants. His environemental, and immigration policies have been piss poor, and his foreign policy hasn't been the best either.
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On November 07 2020 01:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 01:07 Dante08 wrote:On November 07 2020 00:54 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. Yeah and hopefully we also start being critical towards Biden. If he ends up being a shit president, it needs to be said. Part of the saddest thing with Trump is that there were so few of his voters who ended up reflecting and coming to the conclusion that they should probably not have voted for him. Many people actually vote Trump cause of his pro business policies and not necessarily cause they like him. It's not about liking him or not. It's about being absolutely disgusted by him or not.
Some people just don’t care about the optics or deem it less important. I don’t get how hard this is to understand. Surely there are some good reasons that 65m people voted for him!
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United States44397 Posts
On November 07 2020 01:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 01:10 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. I think we do, but not in the way you think. I think if we all agree everywhere that the die hard Trump supporters are idiots unlike those reasonable Republicans who can change their minds then most of the die hard Trump supporters will suddenly remember that they never really supported Trump after all. It’s odd but shaming is genuinely the most effective tool to police social behaviour and humans are extremely capable of double think and hypocrisy. Shame them, but shame them as a group, and you’ll find very few people in that group. I'm not quite sure about that Kwark. I don't think anything good come out of shame, and even less of shaming. But I've lived long enough in the UK to know that it's very popular there.
They did studies on this with vaccines. The main thing promoting anti vaccination is the fear of being called a bad mum in mum Facebook groups. But if they get called a bad mum more for non vaccinating then they vaccinate. Facts about vaccines don’t help.
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On November 07 2020 01:14 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 01:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 01:10 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. I think we do, but not in the way you think. I think if we all agree everywhere that the die hard Trump supporters are idiots unlike those reasonable Republicans who can change their minds then most of the die hard Trump supporters will suddenly remember that they never really supported Trump after all. It’s odd but shaming is genuinely the most effective tool to police social behaviour and humans are extremely capable of double think and hypocrisy. Shame them, but shame them as a group, and you’ll find very few people in that group. I'm not quite sure about that Kwark. I don't think anything good come out of shame, and even less of shaming. But I've lived long enough in the UK to know that it's very popular there. They did studies on this with vaccines. The main thing promoting anti vaccination is the fear of being called a bad mum in mum Facebook groups. But if they get called a bad mum more for non vaccinating then they vaccinate. Facts about vaccines don’t help.
That's interesting. Wouldn't you call it simple social pressure rather than shaming though?
France has tried to shame Le Pen electors for 35 years. They went from 4% to 25%.
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The Biden administration should do nothing more than highlight Trump's failures while promising better (and actually working to deliver on those promises).
Let a newly appointed head of the Department of Justice, and the various state Justice departments (looking at my own state, NY) pursue conviction against Trump's and his administration's officials in order to make an example of him. This is inexplicably important IMO, we need not (as a few others mentioned) let him escape untouched like we did Bush and Reagan. Yeah it might make his hard-core supporters louder or active but they're gonna be like that even with just his election loss. Punishing Trump is necessary to hopefully lower the chance of or outright prevent a similar candidate in 2024 and beyond.
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On November 07 2020 01:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 01:14 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 01:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 07 2020 01:10 KwarK wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. I think we do, but not in the way you think. I think if we all agree everywhere that the die hard Trump supporters are idiots unlike those reasonable Republicans who can change their minds then most of the die hard Trump supporters will suddenly remember that they never really supported Trump after all. It’s odd but shaming is genuinely the most effective tool to police social behaviour and humans are extremely capable of double think and hypocrisy. Shame them, but shame them as a group, and you’ll find very few people in that group. I'm not quite sure about that Kwark. I don't think anything good come out of shame, and even less of shaming. But I've lived long enough in the UK to know that it's very popular there. They did studies on this with vaccines. The main thing promoting anti vaccination is the fear of being called a bad mum in mum Facebook groups. But if they get called a bad mum more for non vaccinating then they vaccinate. Facts about vaccines don’t help. That's interesting. Wouldn't you call it simple social pressure rather than shaming though? France has tried to shame Le Pen electors for 35 years. They went from 4% to 25%.
Similar to AfD in germany, and that's considerably more loaded.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward.
Oh come on fuck it, give us at least a couple days of gloating.
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If they're really using a 99.5% metric as they're claiming I think AZ is still not safe to call. But now I think it's like 85% likely to be a Biden victory.
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It's always been about emotion. That's truth. Science and facts doesn't help turn people over, emotion and stories do.
It's extremely easy to tap into fear and anger. It's a lot more difficult to tap into exploring and trying out new things.
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EPT
