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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:42 GoShox wrote: The guy is a beast. I went to sleep at ~2:30 my time, woke up at ~9:20 and haven't watched a second of CNN without him present Cocaine is a hell of a drug. | ||
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:35 Shingi11 wrote: So the question becomes how do moderates and progressive move forward together. Its become clear that progressive will not hold their nose and vote for a candidate they don't want unlike the republican party that will vote for literal garage if it has a R next. Moderate dems need to stop hoping that pipe dream happen after 2 elections of progressives showing there displeasure while progressive need to understand a large part of the country has a very big aversion to them. The big question is how we beige that gap. The progressive plan should be something like this: Go for the jugular and rip all the establishment corporatists to shreds in the democratic primary in the hope of taking over the party. If that fails: Vote democrat in the presidential election and use large scale protests and strikes and any and all other forms of pressure to get some policy consessions if the corporatist wins over the republican. And fight hard to primary establishment democrats in congressional races. So in short. Fight when you can. Ally when it's necessary. | ||
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smr
Germany4808 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:23 Nebuchad wrote: It is, yeah. But usually we get our international articles from Libération and what they write there about the US is preeetty shit as well. I feel you. Had too much to do today to check how we're going to present the election tomorrow (we're mostly using dpa-content) but when I finished the local part of the front page I saw a placeholder title about Trump's call for a SCOTUS-decision and while that won't stand the responsible journalists rarely reflect what they are doing. If it is a lie they'll tell you: "But we have to report what was said and people only need to turn 2 pages and read 100 lines and there'll be explained that it's a lie and nobody will ever fall for that." Twitter is all just internet-nonsense (when that comes up I usually go through the pages and ask them why x,y and z wasn't reported last week, when my nonsense-bubble told me about it). Journalism is in a horrible spot and yeah at our place... I'm sorry I'm not strong enough to change that. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:48 KungKras wrote: The progressive plan should be something like this: Go for the jugular and rip all the establishment corporatists to shreds in the democratic primary in the hope if taking over the party. If that fails: Vote democrat in the presidential election and use large scale protests and strikes and any and all other forms of pressure to get some policy consessions if the corporatist wins over the republican. And fight hard to primary establishment democrats in congressional races. So in short. Fight when you can. Ally when it's necessary. Or just do all of the above no matter who is in power. Organize, Strike, while refusing to listen to neoliberals. That teach everyone about solidarity. I think all of this will be more effective towards millennial, and Gen Z'ers. As they are warped 24 hour news like the older society seems to be. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
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Yurie
12175 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:35 Shingi11 wrote: So the question becomes how do moderates and progressive move forward together. Its become clear that progressive will not hold their nose and vote for a candidate they don't want unlike the republican party that will vote for literal garage if it has a R next. Moderate dems need to stop hoping that pipe dream happen after 2 elections of progressives showing there displeasure while progressive need to understand a large part of the country has a very big aversion to them. The big question is how we beige that gap. Biggest hope is probably to get the Republican party to keep going right until they go too far and no longer get seats. Then you end up with the Democratic party splitting into two and the left half of that split can be further left than the current one. Risk is if this slow slide to the right doesn't lose support but gains it, then you no longer have a democracy. | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:48 KungKras wrote: The progressive plan should be something like this: Go for the jugular and rip all the establishment corporatists to shreds in the democratic primary in the hope if taking over the party. If that fails: Vote democrat in the presidential election and use large scale protests and strikes and any and all other forms of pressure to get some policy consessions if the corporatist wins over the republican. And fight hard to primary establishment democrats in congressional races. So in short. Fight when you can. Ally when it's necessary. Progressives have shown they will bleed out on there own sword if they don't get what they want. Not to say it is all there fault. While they are still in the minority of the dems, moderates need to not just ignore them. They have enough of a voice that it needs to start being heard. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8213 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Or just do all of the above no matter who is in power. Organize, Strike, while refusing to listen to neoliberals. Refusing to listen is a grrrreat strategy. It's not the establishment corporate neoliberal elite or whatnot that progressive need to convince. It's folks that at the moment they are scaring away. | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:58 Yurie wrote: Biggest hope is probably to get the Republican party to keep going right until they go too far and no longer get seats. Then you end up with the Democratic party splitting into two and the left half of that split can be further left than the current one. Risk is if this slow slide to the right doesn't lose support but gains it, then you no longer have a democracy. God that is scary prospect though. Dems are just barely treading water at the moment. With a split you risk Republicans just sweeping everything | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10584 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10584 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46584 Posts
On November 05 2020 05:03 FlaShFTW wrote: PA updated: Biden only trails by 400k votes now. Still almost 20% left. At the rate it's going, is it likely that PA will flip to Biden? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:38 m4ini wrote: Put up the most progressive candidate you can find in 4, maybe 8 years. Watch said candidate either win by a landslide, or get absolutely vaporised in the election. And then: take the hint. Progressives need to find a message of socialist policies that resonate for rural America. That’s tough. I also honestly think Democrats need to retreat a bit on abortion. The idea of “the woman is completely the only person who matters” isn’t a winning argument | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12593 Posts
On November 05 2020 04:50 smr wrote: I feel you. Had too much to do today to check how we're going to present the election tomorrow (we're mostly using dpa-content) but when I finished the local part of the front page I saw a placeholder title about Trump's call for a SCOTUS-decision and while that won't stand the responsible journalists rarely reflect what they are doing. If it is a lie they'll tell you: "But we have to report what was said and people only need to turn 2 pages and read 100 lines and there'll be explained that it's a lie and nobody will ever fall for that." Twitter is all just internet-nonsense (when that comes up I usually go through the pages and ask them why x,y and z wasn't reported last week, when my nonsense-bubble told me about it). Journalism is in a horrible spot and yeah at our place... I'm sorry I'm not strong enough to change that. A few years ago some leftist tried to go spit on Trump at one of his rallies, and Trump said that it was an attack by a radical muslim. So we published that Trump had said that. I tried to get them to include the fact that it was not true, because it was obviously not true, but that was dangerous, so we didn't. And of course it's not important news, so we never mentioned the incident again. Which means that as far as our readers know, Trump was attacked by a radical muslim at one of his rallies. o/. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46584 Posts
On November 05 2020 05:14 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives need to find a message of socialist policies that resonate for rural America. That’s tough. I also honestly think Democrats need to retreat a bit on abortion. The idea of “the woman is completely the only person who matters” isn’t a winning argument I honestly think Republicans need to retreat a bit on abortion. The idea of "the fetus is completely the only person who matters" isn't a winning argument. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 05 2020 05:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: At the rate it's going, is it likely that PA will flip to Biden? At this point my impression is that it will be close, but not flipping to Biden would require the remaining sample of mail-in ballots to be worse for him than the already processed ones. Which, unfortunately, is entirely possible, and won't be known until Friday. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Shingi11
290 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 05 2020 05:14 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives need to find a message of socialist policies that resonate for rural America. That’s tough. I also honestly think Democrats need to retreat a bit on abortion. The idea of “the woman is completely the only person who matters” isn’t a winning argument It actually is though. And more importantly, if you change your message from "the woman matters" to "the woman matters sometimes", voters will pick up on that. You also lose with young people who absolutely think that a woman should be able to decide over her own body. It's not gonna fly. All this of course is within reason, i don't think an abortion in the 8th month is reasonable. | ||
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