EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 470
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44782 Posts
On September 18 2021 03:05 Magic Powers wrote: Thanks for doing Amu's job, I can say that much. If only he was also this conscientous. I've read the same information a while back, so I can confirm its validity. The conclusion is of course not, as he claims it to be, the advice against vaccination of kids. It's just concerns and slight disagreements. No reputable scientist is advising against it in any capacity, they're only arguing for the need of more research. Vaccination of kids has begun in March. It's absurd to argue there are serious concerns. Agreed. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 18 2021 00:18 Magic Powers wrote: Covid-19 contains more risks than just dropping dead. Vaccination (especially Pfizer) contains no risk other than a sore arm for a few days and in few cases maybe a day of (harmless) side effects. There's no risk from vaccination. There's only risk from infection. To you and to others. Explain to us the gap in this reasoning. The concrete gap. No more vague talk about unknown unknowns that are unknown. Be concrete. This is simply untrue. The risks are very small and heavily outweighed by the risks of contracting COVID, but they aren't zero. I think this is a terrible way to encourage people to be vaccinated. If someone is skeptical about vaccines, lying to them about there being no risk is just going to make them even more skeptical. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
From reading that article, it's only looking at kids in a bubble, for health benefits against Covid vs. risks, in which case if you can keep the likelihood of infection below a certain rate until they get older, it's better to not vaccinate which I would agree with if Covid was under control. With the advent of Delta, and most countries requiring kids to be vaccinated to get to herd immunity though, the math has definitely shifted in favor of getting it to all approved ages. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On September 18 2021 04:02 BlackJack wrote: This is simply untrue. The risks are very small and heavily outweighed by the risks of contracting COVID, but they aren't zero. I think this is a terrible way to encourage people to be vaccinated. If someone is skeptical about vaccines, lying to them about there being no risk is just going to make them even more skeptical. When you only have 2 options, one option having drastically lower risk makes it approximately true. Its not like people can choose some third option. Either you get vaxed or its incredibly likely you'll naturally contract covid at some point. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On September 18 2021 04:11 Mohdoo wrote: When you only have 2 options, one option having drastically lower risk makes it approximately true. Its not like people can choose some third option. Either you get vaxed or its incredibly likely you'll naturally contract covid at some point. This is a great example of the greater good or what is best for the individual person. From what I understand there is doubt and even some indications that small children probably be safer not getting vaccination but for society as a whole it would be a lot better to get rid of convid. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4412 Posts
On September 18 2021 04:02 BlackJack wrote: This is simply untrue. The risks are very small and heavily outweighed by the risks of contracting COVID, but they aren't zero. I think this is a terrible way to encourage people to be vaccinated. If someone is skeptical about vaccines, lying to them about there being no risk is just going to make them even more skeptical. I see you've taken the step to the next level of accusing me of lying. By that metric, literally everything contains a risk. Just sitting at home on your chair contains a risk. Going outside a few meters and back in contains a risk. Exposing yourself to one minute of sunlight contains a risk. And yet, neither commonly nor otherwise do we consider these specific activities and non-activities risky in any capacity. But somehow, people die or get hospitalized pretty much out of the blue, often without any explanation. Doing literally nothing for a few minutes should therefore be considered risky according to your standard. Something tells me you will not be consistent about your own standard when it comes to many other activities. So no, you're wrong, and I did not lie. There is no risk from the covid vaccines, and if less than a handful (plausible, not proven. Not even probable. The true cause is yet to be confirmed) cases from AZ concern you, then you can even choose a different vaccine. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On September 18 2021 04:34 JimmiC wrote: It is related to spread. So in Alabama, Georgia, Florida, so on its safer for every age group because you just can't avoid it. Somewhere with almost no covid the math your speaking of would make sense. The issue is that because so many adults are refusing and Delta is so contagious if we open society without the young population getting it we can't get to the numbers required from heard. So the math is not is the vax safer than no covid its is the vax safer than covid and it clearly is. So I mean you could take the super indivilistic approach and just bet you don't get it, but the more people like you makes your bet worse and worse and for some reason people making that bet are trying to bring as many along with them by making shit up and twisting things. Deaths' for the past week in Florida just dropped back up 8% with averaging 384 a day. It is going to be a long time until that number is not awful without policy change. OK i am from Denmark so that makes sense so here that math fits. For me it seems more sensible for adults to go first, I know children can't understand restrictions so well and could give more spread but seems that many adults behave same way in US, so still think it more sensible to focus on them first | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On September 18 2021 04:40 Sapaio wrote: OK i am from Denmark so that makes sense so here that math fits. For me it seems more sensible for adults to go first, I know children can't understand restrictions so well and could give more spread but seems that many adults behave same way in US, so still think it more sensible to focus on them first So from that earlier article the stats were ~5.7:1 for covid risk : vaccination risk(hospitalization vs heart inflammation, ignoring severity) in ages 12:15 Also ignoring all the societal benefits, in places where you could reasonably expect to not catch covid over the next couple years while you grow older and further out of the risk category, it would be worthwhile. You'd need a country with less than 17.5% of the population infected over 2 years just to break even on risk, and that's assuming you get the shot the moment you turn 16. The longer you wait, the more covid isolated the country has to be for the math to work out. Not saying that the math doesn't make sense, it's just that at some point, for the mental wellbeing of a child it's better to just have them take the vaccination so they can go play with their friends safely for a few more years, even if it does come with potential risks. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4339 Posts
Odd considering the studies showing immunity from vaccines heavily reduced after 6 months but whatever.I guess they figure those under 65 are too low risk for the booster. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/17/fda-pfizer-booster-shots-covid-vaccine-advisers FDA advisers vote not to recommend Pfizer booster shots for most Americans - Vote may be significant blow to Biden administration - Panel does back boosters for those older than 65 Scientific advisers to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have voted not to recommend a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine for most Americans, a potentially significant blow to the Biden administration after it announced a plan to “boost” adults before advisory committees had a chance to review scientific evidence in public. The committee chair, Dr Arnold Monto, a University of Michigan epidemiologist, continued deliberations after the vote. Sixteen of 18 advisers opposed the broad proposal for boosters for those older than 16, even as some members believed there is “a role” for a third dose. Israel went ahead with the booster (Actually ongoing boosters as the vaccine passport expires every 6 months by law) so we can see how things go there. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
1. Effectively nobody wears a mask around here. - The seaside was crowded with foreign tourists from all accross the EU and Russia - not a single one wore a mask anywhere. At all. Ever. - Basically, no locations had people wear masks inside (including employees) - small shops, fast food places, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. The only locations which required people to enter with masks were a few large supermarkets. However, "wearing" a mask was defined as owning a mask. The overwhelming majority of customers only covered their mouths with the masks at best - the same applied to a third of the employees. The other 2/3 of the employees wore their masks as neck decorations. - The main means of transportation between towns are buses. In these disease incubators, only the driver wears a mask (around his neck of course). There are no windows that can be opened and people are stuck inside for 30 minutes to 8 hours. Go figure, how covid reaches every last god-forsaken village here... 2. Bulgaria has hands down the lowest vaccination rate in the EU. The government has not ran the best vaccine campaign but the main issue is that people are willing to believe the wildest shit they read from some random online troll - not that there is any particularly trustworthy media around here anyway, but that's a different issue. And oh boy, are online trolls abundant. Every online article that just mentions Covid has the same 50 or so copy-pasted walls of text detailing how Bill Gates / the Rothshilds / the masons / the illuminati want to depopulate / chip / mind-control the earth with the Covid vaccines. - Just a few days ago I spoke with a doctor (eye doctor but still) that did not trust vaccines. Not only that she did not trust them, but she believed that the vaccine injects "stuff" into you that makes your skin glow a different color when lit by a covid vaccine scanner machine (how the fuck is that even supposed to work X_X). And she was sure about this because her friend had "personally" seen this vaccine scanner machine at the Madrid airport -.- - Recently, there were government elections and as per usual the majority of voters did not bother to go vote in the yearly clown fiesta where one's choices were the ex-communist thieves, the mafia party, more ex-communist thieves, a wide variety of brain-dead nationalists, clown totally-not-communist thieves, a puppet party of the Turkish government, and a colorful selection of fake parties meant to split the vote just to disappear right after the election. And as per usual all parties refuse to form coalitions, so new elections will follow soon. And since there will be yet another election soon-ish (those pretty much happen on a yearly basis around here) the latest batch of bunkstains populating the parliament are giving their best to spew all kinds of crap to make people vote for them. And since vaccine fears are popular among the general population, a bunch of these shitlords in parliament (mainly the "we totally have never been communists" crowd) decided to fuel these fears trying to get more votes in the next election. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4412 Posts
On September 18 2021 07:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Some sense from the FDA advisory panel as they scuttle Bidens plan for boosters every 5 months.They recommend a booster now for those over 65 and those with a very high risk profile and under emergency use authorisation not full approval. Odd considering the studies showing immunity from vaccines heavily reduced after 6 months but whatever.I guess they figure those under 65 are too low risk for the booster. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/17/fda-pfizer-booster-shots-covid-vaccine-advisers Israel went ahead with the booster (Actually ongoing boosters as the vaccine passport expires every 6 months by law) so we can see how things go there. The reason why the FDA recommends against more booster shots is because they want to get more vaccines to other countries that need them a lot more, especially seeing how the vaccination progress has slowed to a near halt in the US. This decision has nothing to do with booster shots not being beneficial generally speaking, that's not the thought. They want to make sure the jabs go to those who need them. In Israel the belief is that their most recent wave is so high in part because many people got their last vaccine over six months ago, and with Delta being around and immunity decreasing they're long due for a booster. In other words, if a batch is about to expire somewhere, go get a jab while it's still good. In a few months I'll be frequenting the vaccine centers to ask if they have a spare dose that'd go to waste otherwise. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4412 Posts
On September 18 2021 07:51 ggrrg wrote: So, I've spent the past 4 weeks at the seaside in my home country - Bulgaria. People's attitude towards Covid around here is terrifying... to say the least... 1. Effectively nobody wears a mask around here. - The seaside was crowded with foreign tourists from all accross the EU and Russia - not a single one wore a mask anywhere. At all. Ever. - Basically, no locations had people wear masks inside (including employees) - small shops, fast food places, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. The only locations which required people to enter with masks were a few large supermarkets. However, "wearing" a mask was defined as owning a mask. The overwhelming majority of customers only covered their mouths with the masks at best - the same applied to a third of the employees. The other 2/3 of the employees wore their masks as neck decorations. - The main means of transportation between towns are buses. In these disease incubators, only the driver wears a mask (around his neck of course). There are no windows that can be opened and people are stuck inside for 30 minutes to 8 hours. Go figure, how covid reaches every last god-forsaken village here... 2. Bulgaria has hands down the lowest vaccination rate in the EU. The government has not ran the best vaccine campaign but the main issue is that people are willing to believe the wildest shit they read from some random online troll - not that there is any particularly trustworthy media around here anyway, but that's a different issue. And oh boy, are online trolls abundant. Every online article that just mentions Covid has the same 50 or so copy-pasted walls of text detailing how Bill Gates / the Rothshilds / the masons / the illuminati want to depopulate / chip / mind-control the earth with the Covid vaccines. - Just a few days ago I spoke with a doctor (eye doctor but still) that did not trust vaccines. Not only that she did not trust them, but she believed that the vaccine injects "stuff" into you that makes your skin glow a different color when lit by a covid vaccine scanner machine (how the fuck is that even supposed to work X_X). And she was sure about this because her friend had "personally" seen this vaccine scanner machine at the Madrid airport -.- - Recently, there were government elections and as per usual the majority of voters did not bother to go vote in the yearly clown fiesta where one's choices were the ex-communist thieves, the mafia party, more ex-communist thieves, a wide variety of brain-dead nationalists, clown totally-not-communist thieves, a puppet party of the Turkish government, and a colorful selection of fake parties meant to split the vote just to disappear right after the election. And as per usual all parties refuse to form coalitions, so new elections will follow soon. And since there will be yet another election soon-ish (those pretty much happen on a yearly basis around here) the latest batch of bunkstains populating the parliament are giving their best to spew all kinds of crap to make people vote for them. And since vaccine fears are popular among the general population, a bunch of these shitlords in parliament (mainly the "we totally have never been communists" crowd) decided to fuel these fears trying to get more votes in the next election. Holy Moly that sounds bad. I've only been aware of the vaccination progress (air quotes). You make it sound more like the country is the comment section of a low grade YT news channel. I'm reading right now that they may've actually lifted the mask mandates, is this correct? That news is from June. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/bulgaria-ease-rules-mask-wearing-indoors-2021-06-10 | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On September 18 2021 07:51 ggrrg wrote: So, I've spent the past 4 weeks at the seaside in my home country - Bulgaria. People's attitude towards Covid around here is terrifying... to say the least... 1. Effectively nobody wears a mask around here. - The seaside was crowded with foreign tourists from all accross the EU and Russia - not a single one wore a mask anywhere. At all. Ever. - Basically, no locations had people wear masks inside (including employees) - small shops, fast food places, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. The only locations which required people to enter with masks were a few large supermarkets. However, "wearing" a mask was defined as owning a mask. The overwhelming majority of customers only covered their mouths with the masks at best - the same applied to a third of the employees. The other 2/3 of the employees wore their masks as neck decorations. - The main means of transportation between towns are buses. In these disease incubators, only the driver wears a mask (around his neck of course). There are no windows that can be opened and people are stuck inside for 30 minutes to 8 hours. Go figure, how covid reaches every last god-forsaken village here... 2. Bulgaria has hands down the lowest vaccination rate in the EU. The government has not ran the best vaccine campaign but the main issue is that people are willing to believe the wildest shit they read from some random online troll - not that there is any particularly trustworthy media around here anyway, but that's a different issue. And oh boy, are online trolls abundant. Every online article that just mentions Covid has the same 50 or so copy-pasted walls of text detailing how Bill Gates / the Rothshilds / the masons / the illuminati want to depopulate / chip / mind-control the earth with the Covid vaccines. - Just a few days ago I spoke with a doctor (eye doctor but still) that did not trust vaccines. Not only that she did not trust them, but she believed that the vaccine injects "stuff" into you that makes your skin glow a different color when lit by a covid vaccine scanner machine (how the fuck is that even supposed to work X_X). And she was sure about this because her friend had "personally" seen this vaccine scanner machine at the Madrid airport -.- - Recently, there were government elections and as per usual the majority of voters did not bother to go vote in the yearly clown fiesta where one's choices were the ex-communist thieves, the mafia party, more ex-communist thieves, a wide variety of brain-dead nationalists, clown totally-not-communist thieves, a puppet party of the Turkish government, and a colorful selection of fake parties meant to split the vote just to disappear right after the election. And as per usual all parties refuse to form coalitions, so new elections will follow soon. And since there will be yet another election soon-ish (those pretty much happen on a yearly basis around here) the latest batch of bunkstains populating the parliament are giving their best to spew all kinds of crap to make people vote for them. And since vaccine fears are popular among the general population, a bunch of these shitlords in parliament (mainly the "we totally have never been communists" crowd) decided to fuel these fears trying to get more votes in the next election. I read stuff like this and think "lol I will not hesitate to have my 4th dose in 4 months" | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 18 2021 04:23 Magic Powers wrote: I see you've taken the step to the next level of accusing me of lying. By that metric, literally everything contains a risk. Just sitting at home on your chair contains a risk. Going outside a few meters and back in contains a risk. Exposing yourself to one minute of sunlight contains a risk. And yet, neither commonly nor otherwise do we consider these specific activities and non-activities risky in any capacity. But somehow, people die or get hospitalized pretty much out of the blue, often without any explanation. Doing literally nothing for a few minutes should therefore be considered risky according to your standard. Something tells me you will not be consistent about your own standard when it comes to many other activities. So no, you're wrong, and I did not lie. There is no risk from the covid vaccines, and if less than a handful (plausible, not proven. Not even probable. The true cause is yet to be confirmed) cases from AZ concern you, then you can even choose a different vaccine. I wouldn't say you are a liar. I just don't think you know as much as you think you do. You seem to imply that the only known adverse event is a possibility for blood clots from AZ and you say choose a different vaccine. There have been hundreds of cases of myocarditis linked with the pfizer/Moderna vaccines. If you conflate this with the same risk as "doing nothing for a few minutes" then you are too far down the rabbit hole to be reached. In fact, all you had to do was say the vaccines are "safe" instead of without risk and I would have no issue with it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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