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Coronavirus and You - Page 403

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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.

It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.

Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.

This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.

Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
July 15 2021 06:52 GMT
#8041
On July 15 2021 14:58 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2021 13:50 xM(Z wrote:
it's latitude, temperature and relative humidity; those give you a solid working hypothesis.

Please grace us with this solid working hypothesis.

:D

Let's call it assumption rather than hypothesis.
And I suppose it's enough research for an outrage YouTube video or Twitter Post
passive quaranstream fan
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
July 15 2021 09:36 GMT
#8042
I thought the currently working hypothesis is, that is has very little to do with the actual temperature and a lot to do with peoples behavior.
I mean currently it's raining all day in southern Germany but god dammit it's summer and I wanna be outside as much as possible while in winter it's more "let's get cozy by the fireplace" kinda thinking.

Now, I don't know if the ground theory of "the indoor transmission rate is much higher than outdoors" is accepted by everyone. If it is, there might be some truth to my first statement
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-15 18:03:58
July 15 2021 17:56 GMT
#8043
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-87692-z
In sum, we show that an increase in absolute latitude by 1° is associated with a 4.3% increase in COVID-19 cases per million inhabitants. Increasing temperatures and longer sunlight exposure during summer may boost the impact of public health policies and actions to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2. Conversely, the threat of epidemic resurgence may increase during winter. However, our results do not indicate that the disease will vanish in summer, nor that countries located close to the equator will contain the disease without effective public health measures.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366819/
Results:

To date, Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by SARS-CoV-2, has established significant community spread in cities and regions along a narrow east west distribution roughly along the 30–50° N’ corridor at consistently similar weather patterns consisting of average temperatures of 5–11°C, combined with low specific (3–6 g/kg) and absolute humidity (4–7 g/m3). There has been a lack of significant community establishment in expected locations that are based only on population proximity and extensive population interaction through travel.
Conclusions and Relevance:

The distribution of significant community outbreaks along restricted latitude, temperature, and humidity are consistent with the behavior of a seasonal respiratory virus. Additionally, we have proposed a simplified model that shows a zone at increased risk for COVID-19 spread. Using weather modeling, it may be possible to predict the regions most likely to be at higher risk of significant community spread of COVID-19 in the upcoming weeks, allowing for concentration of public health efforts on surveillance and containment.

so, latitude, temperature and relative humidity is the accepted, valid starting point for further research.

Edit: people behavior doesn't matter, or rather: if we put all people in baubles, then who's gonna spread the covid!?!?!?, duh duh. the fuck is that?.
people/scientists are trying to find out what other factors besides people are influential.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 15 2021 22:37 GMT
#8044
--- Nuked ---
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-16 01:05:00
July 16 2021 00:25 GMT
#8045
UK is going to have a rough go of it. They're not vaccinating the 12-17 age group, and the Silverstone F1 race is going to happen this weekend with no capacity restrictions. 140k fans, even in an outdoor venue is a recipe for continued transmission. They've steadily increased in cases for the last month+, and it's not anywhere close to coming under control.

Looks like 65% population vaccinated isn't quite enough. We'll see soon enough if 70% as in Canada is enough, or if we'll need to get the 6mo-11yo population to really see the end of it
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4335 Posts
July 16 2021 01:22 GMT
#8046
Because vaccination is so political in the US and dems tend to dominate the cities and reps the rural. You will have 70% vaccinated city that is densely populated next to sparsely populated place with 20%

Blatant oversimplification considering black Americans are by far the lowest group vaccinated and often congregate in cities, and vote democrat.

See - City of Chester, PA.74% Black, 27% fully vaccinated as of July 7
https://6abc.com/chester-vaccinations-low-vaccination-rates-covid-19-vaccine-delaware-county/10869086/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
July 16 2021 01:32 GMT
#8047
On July 14 2021 02:46 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2021 02:16 Dan HH wrote:
On July 14 2021 02:01 JimmiC wrote:
On July 14 2021 01:55 Dan HH wrote:
On July 14 2021 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
On July 14 2021 01:36 Dan HH wrote:
On July 14 2021 00:43 JimmiC wrote:
On July 14 2021 00:31 sharkie wrote:
I have no idea why you think I dont like vaccinations..?

All I am saying is that summer is having the biggest impact on numbers.

Based on what logic? The numbers are going up during summer in places with low vaccination rates and down in places with high. The numbers are also WAY better than last summer when we had no vaccinations.

Summer and weather plays a roll but it is very clear what is doing more. You are aware that both India and Brazil had horrible death and hospitalizations rates during their summer right?

What you are saying just does not make sense, not even a little.

Allow me to make you both headscratch, we went from >5000 cases/day in March to ~50 cases/day now. The sharp decline started in April when almost no one was vaccinated and it was also extremely cold. We still have a relatively low vaccination rate and by the time summer kicked in we were already at ~200 cases/day.

Is this Romania? When I look it up they still look very low. I have not followed it so I have no clue. Could it be variant related? Most of the upswings are.

There's no upswing, I guess I wrote that in a confusing manner. We went from a lot of cases to virtually none while it was still cold and very few were vaccinated.

Oh gotcha, well that is awesome. Was there government measures or was everything open? We had ours drop dramatically before vaccines (then go back up sadly) but it was pretty drastic measures that brought them down.

There were measures, but not as drastic as in the previous year. It doesn't really make sense that we're doing so much better than last summer. We'll see if there's gonna be another resurgence, it's difficult for authorities to convince people to get vaccinated now that there's no cases.


Meanwhile, somewhere near the equator, some of my dear friends are suffering in a country which just hit peak infection after weeks of lockdown and vaccination program in overdrive (mostly AZ).

If such weird trend continues, no surprise people starts questioning about the logic of everything...


Update on counter-example of infections hitting peak even as vaccination drive in full force: infections still soaring, friend tested positive after being vaccinated (despite under lockdown and going out once or twice a week to buy essentials).

If we have a perfect vaccine and the virus don't mutate, then of course vaccination is super effective. No one is arguing against that, in principle.

But the reality is that our current vaccines aren't there yet. If vaccines are the main factor of curbing infections, wouldn't there be a drop of infections regardless of other factors (eg lax lockdown, low compliance to social-distancing and masks-wearing, quarantine and isolation breaches)? Obviously vaccines aren't the silver bullet.

Again, the importance of vaccination shouldn't be doubted. But there's the risk of playing up its effects resulting to complacency in other areas. And that's perhaps why infections still soar where vaccination rate is high (like UK). People being vaccinated drop their guard. So putting all focus on vaccination can be counter-productive.
gg no re thx
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-16 02:56:48
July 16 2021 02:56 GMT
#8048
On July 16 2021 07:37 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2021 02:56 xM(Z wrote:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-87692-z
In sum, we show that an increase in absolute latitude by 1° is associated with a 4.3% increase in COVID-19 cases per million inhabitants. Increasing temperatures and longer sunlight exposure during summer may boost the impact of public health policies and actions to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2. Conversely, the threat of epidemic resurgence may increase during winter. However, our results do not indicate that the disease will vanish in summer, nor that countries located close to the equator will contain the disease without effective public health measures.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366819/
Results:

To date, Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by SARS-CoV-2, has established significant community spread in cities and regions along a narrow east west distribution roughly along the 30–50° N’ corridor at consistently similar weather patterns consisting of average temperatures of 5–11°C, combined with low specific (3–6 g/kg) and absolute humidity (4–7 g/m3). There has been a lack of significant community establishment in expected locations that are based only on population proximity and extensive population interaction through travel.
Conclusions and Relevance:

The distribution of significant community outbreaks along restricted latitude, temperature, and humidity are consistent with the behavior of a seasonal respiratory virus. Additionally, we have proposed a simplified model that shows a zone at increased risk for COVID-19 spread. Using weather modeling, it may be possible to predict the regions most likely to be at higher risk of significant community spread of COVID-19 in the upcoming weeks, allowing for concentration of public health efforts on surveillance and containment.

so, latitude, temperature and relative humidity is the accepted, valid starting point for further research.

Edit: people behavior doesn't matter, or rather: if we put all people in baubles, then who's gonna spread the covid!?!?!?, duh duh. the fuck is that?.
people/scientists are trying to find out what other factors besides people are influential.

I think you are missing the point. People are not saying environment is not a factor, they are saying it is not the biggest.

Take the US right now. You have new Mexico right between Texas and Arizona, but either side has much faster rising cases. And even more gradually than that you can look at counties that are right next door with different patterns.

Because vaccination is so political in the US and dems tend to dominate the cities and reps the rural. You will have 70% vaccinated city that is densely populated next to sparsely populated place with 20%.

If weather was the main factor they would be similar, heck the densely populated would be worse but instead the densely populated area has much lower cases and even lower hospitalization rates.

If weather was a bigger factor places with the same latitude or whatever would be similar regardless of vaccination rates but places with different weather would be acting different. That is why all the data from both your studies are taken from before vaccination because now those patterns do not hold true.

I'm not sure why people are working so hard to find other reasons when vaccines have been shown to work in this case and historically.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck it is a duck.

no one cares nor talks about vaccines there; arguments are not made to vindicate/indict unvaccinated people; the fuck is wrong with you?.

it's not weather. you can have different climatological conditions in states that are nearby or in provinces within the same state ... etc.
if you can't actually read/understand articles that are not from yahoo, then just don't comment on them.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 16 2021 04:40 GMT
#8049
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 16 2021 05:11 GMT
#8050
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 16 2021 05:26 GMT
#8051
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23258 Posts
July 16 2021 06:53 GMT
#8052
This whole "unvaccinated people are encouraged to wear masks" sign phase going on now locally for me seems asinine.

Also feels weird how "over" it is starting to feel (or businesses/people are acting like) in the US despite cases and deaths globally being worse than pretty much all last year (save Nov/Dec) and starting to rise in the US.

I've never been very worried about dying from covid, and less so since I've been vaccinated, but variants and long-term symptoms/effects still give me pause about this openness (maybe carelessness?) carrying on past when everything is open-air/outside.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-16 09:43:32
July 16 2021 09:38 GMT
#8053
On July 16 2021 15:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
This whole "unvaccinated people are encouraged to wear masks" sign phase going on now locally for me seems asinine.

Also feels weird how "over" it is starting to feel (or businesses/people are acting like) in the US despite cases and deaths globally being worse than pretty much all last year (save Nov/Dec) and starting to rise in the US.

I've never been very worried about dying from covid, and less so since I've been vaccinated, but variants and long-term symptoms/effects still give me pause about this openness (maybe carelessness?) carrying on past when everything is open-air/outside.

I personally don't mind the digs at the unvaccinated to be honest. Especially in the US, they've had every opportunity to get it done if they wanted to. Every one of them is piggy backing off the protection provided by the vaccinated, so inconveniencing them really doesn't bother me. Even though we went masks optional a week ago, every shop I've been in still has the masks required sign up, and most people still wear masks to go around indoors. My bouldering gym is going to require them until the start of september, which I think is fair as some of their patrons won't have had a chance to be 2dose+2weeks until then.

Between poorer countries and people who don't care for whatever reason in wealthier countries, there's a fair chance an even more virulent variant comes out. Delta is already at a point where every country that doesn't have 75+%(maybe even higher) mRNA vaccines will either need an extra mRNA shot, or else a Delta specific booster to have any shot of containing it. A lot of SEA which has been reliant on Sinovac is really not in a good place atm.

My local health authority has ~85% eligible vaccinated now, but we've still been sitting around 10 cases a day for a month or so now despite consistently adding to the first/second dose population.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5597 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-16 10:26:27
July 16 2021 10:25 GMT
#8054
On July 16 2021 10:32 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2021 02:46 RKC wrote:
On July 14 2021 02:16 Dan HH wrote:
On July 14 2021 02:01 JimmiC wrote:
On July 14 2021 01:55 Dan HH wrote:
On July 14 2021 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
On July 14 2021 01:36 Dan HH wrote:
On July 14 2021 00:43 JimmiC wrote:
On July 14 2021 00:31 sharkie wrote:
I have no idea why you think I dont like vaccinations..?

All I am saying is that summer is having the biggest impact on numbers.

Based on what logic? The numbers are going up during summer in places with low vaccination rates and down in places with high. The numbers are also WAY better than last summer when we had no vaccinations.

Summer and weather plays a roll but it is very clear what is doing more. You are aware that both India and Brazil had horrible death and hospitalizations rates during their summer right?

What you are saying just does not make sense, not even a little.

Allow me to make you both headscratch, we went from >5000 cases/day in March to ~50 cases/day now. The sharp decline started in April when almost no one was vaccinated and it was also extremely cold. We still have a relatively low vaccination rate and by the time summer kicked in we were already at ~200 cases/day.

Is this Romania? When I look it up they still look very low. I have not followed it so I have no clue. Could it be variant related? Most of the upswings are.

There's no upswing, I guess I wrote that in a confusing manner. We went from a lot of cases to virtually none while it was still cold and very few were vaccinated.

Oh gotcha, well that is awesome. Was there government measures or was everything open? We had ours drop dramatically before vaccines (then go back up sadly) but it was pretty drastic measures that brought them down.

There were measures, but not as drastic as in the previous year. It doesn't really make sense that we're doing so much better than last summer. We'll see if there's gonna be another resurgence, it's difficult for authorities to convince people to get vaccinated now that there's no cases.


Meanwhile, somewhere near the equator, some of my dear friends are suffering in a country which just hit peak infection after weeks of lockdown and vaccination program in overdrive (mostly AZ).

If such weird trend continues, no surprise people starts questioning about the logic of everything...


Update on counter-example of infections hitting peak even as vaccination drive in full force: infections still soaring, friend tested positive after being vaccinated (despite under lockdown and going out once or twice a week to buy essentials).

If we have a perfect vaccine and the virus don't mutate, then of course vaccination is super effective. No one is arguing against that, in principle.

But the reality is that our current vaccines aren't there yet. If vaccines are the main factor of curbing infections, wouldn't there be a drop of infections regardless of other factors (eg lax lockdown, low compliance to social-distancing and masks-wearing, quarantine and isolation breaches)? Obviously vaccines aren't the silver bullet.

Again, the importance of vaccination shouldn't be doubted. But there's the risk of playing up its effects resulting to complacency in other areas. And that's perhaps why infections still soar where vaccination rate is high (like UK). People being vaccinated drop their guard. So putting all focus on vaccination can be counter-productive.

In the UK, the cases are soaring among the unvaccinated groups (the uptake is very high here, so until recently they were still vaccinating by age groups):

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


2nd dose uptake (I think they actually mean coverage here):

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
July 16 2021 12:42 GMT
#8055
On July 16 2021 18:38 Amui wrote:
My local health authority has ~85% eligible vaccinated now, but we've still been sitting around 10 cases a day for a month or so now despite consistently adding to the first/second dose population.

What do you mean with "still 10 cases a day"?
Or better:
What exactly do you people think, what the "final goal" is? Zero cases? Worldwide? Do you really think that is happening?
Because I can tell you that I don't think so! It is out there and not going away! So for me, at somepoint "we" have to say: It's "irrelevant" and not better/worse as other serious conditions humankind is/was dealing with on a daily basis. If it is because many people are vaccinated or we got better treatments or something similar doesn't matter.
There can only be one Geisterkarle
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-16 13:43:09
July 16 2021 13:39 GMT
#8056
--- Nuked ---
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-16 21:04:16
July 16 2021 21:01 GMT
#8057
LA County is requiring masks indoors again due to the delta variant starting tomorrow. I'm fucking furious! This is all happening because we have so many people in this city that refuse for whatever stupid reason to get vaccinated. So now bars have to close again because these assholes won't do what they are supposed to do and what people around the world are in huge wait lists to do because the US won't export more vaccines until more of the population is vaccinated.

I fucking hate selfish people like this. We had one glorious month of life returning to a relative normal and now thanks to them we have to close shit up again. As someone that works in the restaurant and bar industry it's also making me question if I'm going to still able to get shifts.

Ugh.

Source: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-15/l-a-county-will-require-masks-indoors-amid-covid-19-surge
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5597 Posts
July 16 2021 22:51 GMT
#8058
"Aha! We told you this will never end!" "Another lockdown, they're determined to kill off the small businesses!" "Want to come over? We're having a zombie party."
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 16 2021 23:52 GMT
#8059
Politicizing covid in the states has been one of the stupidest decisions that's going to haunt the USA for the next year. If everyone sang the same song and encouraged vaccine uptake from day 1, you wouldn't see so much antivax conspiracy sentiment. The only thing good to come out of it is with such low uptake, American vaccine plants began exporting vaccine to other areas around the globe much quicker than expected.

Going by first dose uptake, there's only three states above 70% first dose uptake, and six above 65% at a population level. That's a level enough to stop earlier strains of covid, but Delta is likely going to overpower that, looking at the UK.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

Locally, it seems that 65%+ population vaccination rates combined with aggressive contact tracing keeps covid of all varieties in check, but you can still see outbreaks get to 10s of people a day pretty quickly. We've had tens of Delta cases/week for the past month and they haven't really gone anywhere.

One thing I'm slightly surprised about is the border situation with Canada/USA. It was just extended another month, and it's looking likely that we will have to figure out a vaccine passport system, because comments so far are that only vaccinated people can travel to Canada. There's no system in place on either side to facilitate this, so it's going to be interesting to see who gets paid to slap together something in the next month.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4335 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-17 03:50:25
July 17 2021 03:44 GMT
#8060
On July 16 2021 14:11 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2021 10:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Because vaccination is so political in the US and dems tend to dominate the cities and reps the rural. You will have 70% vaccinated city that is densely populated next to sparsely populated place with 20%

Blatant oversimplification considering black Americans are by far the lowest group vaccinated and often congregate in cities, and vote democrat.

See - City of Chester, PA.74% Black, 27% fully vaccinated as of July 7
https://6abc.com/chester-vaccinations-low-vaccination-rates-covid-19-vaccine-delaware-county/10869086/


So the real creepy part about your post is where did you get the 74% black from it is not in your article. What were you googling that found you that? It is quite concerning that you came across it and even more so that you then found a less offensive one to post but kept the old info in there. It also appears out of date because 2021 it says 69% black.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/chester-pa-population

Sorry, what is offensive about stating facts? The 74% black for that city is from the 2010 census.You're arguing that black Americans aren't among the lowest vaccinated groups? That they don't vote democrat? That 69% is so different from 74% a few years prior? Pick your fights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
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