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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 12 2020 10:57 LG)Sabbath wrote: Brazillian president Bolsonaro was saying it's just a flu a few hours ago, watch him flip now that the boss changed his mind Hadn't even thought of south america. Hows it going down there? | ||
KwarK
United States43955 Posts
On March 12 2020 10:55 Mohdoo wrote: Regardless of what 2 months from now looks like, we can say with confidence we need to shut it all down right now. Everything is a total shit show and this is the best we can do. Flights to the EU aren’t bringing shit in, it’s already passing around in every major US city. This is action for the sake of appearances only. Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, found some other horses, had some foals, and watched them grow old. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On March 12 2020 10:52 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Is there like an endgame? Everything is getting cancelled. But I don't really understand when it would be able to be called 'safe' again. It seems impossible to contain or isolate all cases. So is the endgame that everyone has either resisted the infection or died from it? Is the endgame a vaccine that even in hopeful terms is more than a year away? Are we just going to not have any events or travel for the rest of the year? All the talks are about a temporary cancellation but I don't really see why things would be better in a month. Or two months. There's a few things. The main short term goal is to keep hospitals from getting overloaded, which would result in a lot of people dying, even those without coronavirus. There could also be less favorable conditions for it in the weather in a few months, if it works similarly to the Flu. The other concern is that if NOTHING is done, then there's just a new, deadlier, flu permanently, and the old strains are still around too (hugely simplified, of course, but similar). Some reports say it's about the same deadliness as the Spanish Flu, which killed several million. Of course, the concern for Trump is that it's bad for the economy, but meh. These measures are a lot better for the economy than Hospitals crashing to a halt. The US is uniquely poorly suited for dealing with this, given how awful the healthcare system is, so I'm not sure these measures are going to be effective - some states almost certainly have more infected individuals than some European countries. Additionally, after a team's center was found positive: On March 12 2020 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: So can someone explain to me, as someone who doesnt know much about covid 19, why we need to be shutting down society? Obviously it prevents transmission, but then there's the question of why society doesn't get shut down for the seasonal flu, which has a slightly lower death rate but is similarly a threat to certain vulnerable groups (and in terms of absolute numbers the deaths and infections are much higher with any given seasonal flu than with covid 19). While it's not a SUPER deadly illness, comparing it to the flu can be misleading. Flu is 0.1% among all ages according to NYT, while Corona is between 2-3%. This is still 20-30x deadlier than the Flu and appears to spread just as easily. Imagine having 20x more Elderly people in the hospital and you have a better picture. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: So can someone explain to me, as someone who doesnt know much about covid 19, why we need to be shutting down society? Obviously it prevents transmission, but then there's the question of why society doesn't get shut down for the seasonal flu, which has a slightly lower death rate but is similarly a threat to certain vulnerable groups (and in terms of absolute numbers the deaths and infections are much higher with any given seasonal flu). I think theres a lot of unknowns and they are trying to prevent hospitals from being overloaded if a bunch of people get sick at once. The idea is to slow the spread so its not a huge jump of people getting it at once. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:02 KwarK wrote: Flights to the EU aren’t bringing shit in, it’s already passing around in every major US city. This is action for the sake of appearances only. Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, found some other horses, had some foals, and watched them grow old. By no means am I saying this is a slam dunk. I'm just saying even while realizing we are probably super duper fucked, we may as well do what we can. Tom Hanks got it. NBA has it. Probably an amazing % of the US population has it. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: So can someone explain to me, as someone who doesnt know much about covid 19, why we need to be shutting down society? Obviously it prevents transmission, but then there's the question of why society doesn't get shut down for the seasonal flu, which has a slightly lower death rate but is similarly a threat to certain vulnerable groups (and in terms of absolute numbers the deaths and infections are much higher with any given seasonal flu than with covid 19). Seasonal flu is a well-understood disease that we have developed vaccines for a long time ago. Flu can also be survived by most people simply by staying at home and drinking some hot tea, meanwhile even for healthy adults covid-19 can often become severe enough to require round the clock hospital care. Even with the currently established measures, Italy is already approaching a thousand fatalities (while seasonal flu there usually gets about 200-300 people per year or so). On top of that, it looks like covid-19 can cause long-term complications in a significant (10%+, possibly?) number of cases, including life-long respiratory system damage, and according to some reports it can also have long-term effects on the neural system. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: So can someone explain to me, as someone who doesnt know much about covid 19, why we need to be shutting down society? Obviously it prevents transmission, but then there's the question of why society doesn't get shut down for the seasonal flu, which has a slightly lower death rate but is similarly a threat to certain vulnerable groups (and in terms of absolute numbers the deaths and infections are much higher with any given seasonal flu than with covid 19). I think is that the seasonal flu is a known quantity, if you shut down society it'll quiet down and 2 months later you'll just have a different strain going around. There's still hope that covid19 could be eradicated with a single vaccine. Thing is, the more it spreads, the more odds there are of a mutation. Then you need more vaccines, more research, and suddenly it becomes the new normal. Flu kills X number of people every year, Covid kills Y amount, vaccines work sometimes and they don't some other times. Covid just lives on top of all the other shit. That's not fun. IDK tho | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23898 Posts
Governor basically confirmed what I thought (and probably why a lot of your guys places feel like they are over reacting). That by the time we were hearing about it potentially being local, there were already thousands of infections and there are probably hundreds of thousands of CV-19 infected people in the state at this point. The state has seen 267 confirmed coronavirus cases thus far, but Inslee said there were likely “hundreds of thousands” of cases among people who did not know it. thehill.com | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4410 Posts
On March 12 2020 10:55 Mohdoo wrote: Regardless of what 2 months from now looks like, we can say with confidence we need to shut it all down right now. Everything is a total shit show and this is the best we can do. Your goal is to crash the economy? Because that is what is happening with this strategy and that will hurt more people than this virus. Life should have continued as normal, a few more vulnerable folks than usual would die from the flu but we wouldn't be facing total economic disaster.NBA players have it, now Tom Hanks has it, it's everywhere. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23898 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:52 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Your goal is to crash the economy? Because that is what is happening with this strategy and that will hurt more people than this virus. Life should have continued as normal, a few more vulnerable folks than usual would die from the flu but we wouldn't be facing total economic disaster. This is why there haven't been more shutdowns, also contributes to why China and SK have had so much better responses. Collectivism and reverence for elders being culturally popular means they make the opposite calculation (without the doom and gloom of stopping work to save vulnerable people). | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:52 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Your goal is to crash the economy? Because that is what is happening with this strategy and that will hurt more people than this virus. Life should have continued as normal, a few more vulnerable folks than usual would die from the flu but we wouldn't be facing total economic disaster. If even 5% of all people over 65 died in the USA, it would do significantly more damage to the economy. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:52 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Your goal is to crash the economy? Because that is what is happening with this strategy and that will hurt more people than this virus. Life should have continued as normal, a few more vulnerable folks than usual would die from the flu but we wouldn't be facing total economic disaster. You mean loads more people would have gotten sick, the medical system would have gotten even more overloaded than it is currently, many more people would have died, and the economy would have tanked anyways. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4410 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4410 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:55 Mohdoo wrote: If even 5% of all people over 65 died in the USA, it would do significantly more damage to the economy. As opposed to banning all travel from the EU, closing schools, cancelling sporting events and the entire NBA season, suspend production on movies, tv show etc? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23898 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 12 2020 12:02 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: As opposed to banning all travel from the EU, closing schools, cancelling sporting events and the entire NBA season, suspend production on movies, tv show etc? I feel like you aren't grasping what it means for millions of people to die. If you're just blindly assuming that won't happen, go for it, but no one is going to engage with you with that being a premise. You are welcome to believe as you wish. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On March 12 2020 12:02 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: As opposed to banning all travel from the EU, closing schools, cancelling sporting events and the entire NBA season, suspend production on movies, tv show etc? Yes. Wealth is very concentrated among older groups in the US (or rather, NOT concentrated among the younger, less at risk groups). If half of Millenials died, the work force would be more affected, but it'd be about the same the relative levels of investment capital getting tied up while it gets distributed via wills etc. Of course the economy would recover eventually either way, but it'd be a big freeze on a lot of investor spending. | ||
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KwarK
United States43955 Posts
On March 12 2020 11:55 Mohdoo wrote: If even 5% of all people over 65 died in the USA, it would do significantly more damage to the economy. Would it though? They’re not working, they’re just holding onto resources that would be used more efficiently and effectively by their children. Hell, there’s a chance that if enough of them die this dumb payroll tax holiday might actually come out ahead. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On March 12 2020 12:11 KwarK wrote: Would it though? They’re not working, they’re just holding onto resources that would be used more efficiently and effectively by their children. Hell, there’s a chance that if enough of them die this dumb payroll tax holiday might actually come out ahead. There would be a 6 month - year long delay while estates and wills get sorted out, so it'd be a similar effect to just stopping the economy. In the long run, yeah, it'd PROBABLY be better for US society if the elderly controlled less of the wealth proportionally, but we can't know the future and that could be done without you know, having them all die from a preventable illness. | ||
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