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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12008 Posts
I do have the feeling in Germany that people generally feel that we are in this together. Because we have a pretty low amount of idiots trying to fight against stuff like wearing masks or social distancing. In the US, this is different. Your president and a bunch of his followers did call the coronavirus a hoax, so calling them "covid-deniers" isn't really that far out of line. And your country IS currently suffering from the results of this. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 11 2020 03:24 Simberto wrote: It would be a lot easier to feel that we are all in this together if a relevant part of your population, incited by your president and a bunch of other politicians, wasn't actively harming any reasonable effort to deal with the pandemic by being complete morons and not adhering to basic safety precautions. I do have the feeling in Germany that people generally feel that we are in this together. Because we have a pretty low amount of idiots trying to fight against stuff like wearing masks or social distancing. In the US, this is different. Your president and a bunch of his followers did call the coronavirus a hoax, so calling them "covid-deniers" isn't really that far out of line. And your country IS currently suffering from the results of this. I hope you and your covid-denying friends are happy with increased deaths in Germany.+ Show Spoiler + You see how little effort I have to put into smearing you with that, as he did with me. Save it for people that are writing against masks, or calling the pandemic a hoax, to resort to such smears. Otherwise, yeah, Coronavirus is a partisan issue and you're doing the typical partisan ploy to bring politics into the conversation to smear others. And like I said otherwise, TeamLiquid should be above that. We all should be above that. This thread should not make absurd political connections to demonize other posters, in a thread that proscribes against politics. Period. Don't try to hem and haw around it if you can't bring yourself to make that conclusion, you won't fool any thinking person. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12008 Posts
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gabapentins
2 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 11 2020 03:55 Simberto wrote: I think i am going to respond to that in the politics thread. It’s a PSA for the thread, but yes, probably not a useful topic of debate here. Unless you and JimmiC also want to accuse me of joining with covid-denying friends to take joy Im increased deaths, as Erasme did in this thread. Then I take massive issue, people who support his statement being one step removed by merely approving of what he does. PSA over, so far as I am concerned. Save your ire for stances that deserve it. | ||
KwarK
United States44322 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28899 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
1% of their population has officially been infected by coronavirus. It's a record high day too, 65.6k and there's no sign of slowing it down anywhere. 14 states have over 1000 cases a day, which is up from IIRC 11 2 days ago. There's going to be no brakes on the train until a vaccine is available, and even then, anti-vax people might slow down the deployment which would be brutal. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States758 Posts
I have been following been following the blogger in this new post since early Jan before they made the episode to talk about this virus. It is shocking how long this was being kept from the public and suppressed by the Chinese Communist Government over the past half year. | ||
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KwarK
United States44322 Posts
The China narrative exists only to deflect blame from the failure of a minority of western politicians to deal with the crisis. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Around here, the pandemic was China's problem, something to point and laugh at... until it wasn't. Whoops. | ||
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StalkerTL
212 Posts
Here is an interview with Larry Brilliant that states the US federal government has failed, states have failed to take it seriously and coronavirus is more detrimental to health than previously believed. None of these things are China’s fault. The best case example of this is Arizona. In ominous signs, some Arizona counties have signed contracts for refrigerated trucks to deal with the increased death toll. Of note, Phoenix mayor has the following to say: "We opened way too early in Arizona. We were one of the last states to go to stay at home and one of the first to reemerge, and we reemerged at zero to 60," Gallego said on ABC's "This Week." "We had crowded nightclubs handing out free champagne, no masks. Our 20- to 44-year-olds, which is my own demographic, really led the explosion, and we've seen such growth in that area. We're seeing a lot of people go to large family gatherings and infect their family members." She also said in the interview that the city was in a testing crisis, and some people were waiting up to eight hours for a COVID-19-test. She has requested testing aid from the Federal Emergency Management Agency but said earlier this week that her requests have been denied multiple times. | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On July 11 2020 08:16 Lmui wrote: Well, USA has done it. 1% of their population has officially been infected by coronavirus. It's a record high day too, 65.6k and there's no sign of slowing it down anywhere. 14 states have over 1000 cases a day, which is up from IIRC 11 2 days ago. There's going to be no brakes on the train until a vaccine is available, and even then, anti-vax people might slow down the deployment which would be brutal. And deaths are sadly but expectedly creeping up again. I'm sorry Danglars but you spent the last 2 weeks saying that we should not look at the amount of cases, but the amount of deaths and hospital capacity (which I more or less agree with, but it was clear the increase in positive cases was not only due to increased testing). Well now it is going up again, as "scheduled", around 3 weeks after the increase in cases started again. From an average of 5/600deaths/day in the past 3 or 4 weeks, this week was a steady 900+, each day of the week. Will you be again moving goalposts as you have done in the USPol or here by now saying that "flattening the curve" was the only point of lockdown? What is the next goal ? While it is not entirely wrong, once the curve is flattened, the aim should not be just let it roam free again. Last month you were arguing that the death/million in the US that was at that point a lot lower than the EU and framing that as a "see, we're fine". Unsurprisingly since the rate of deaths in the US is still at a very high point, it has crept up and is now nearing France's. Still a ways off from Italy or Spain though. The point of lockdown was to stop the increase, bring the situation back to manageable levels, and hopefully be able to track cases and spreading again, to be able to confidently reopen the country and live something akin to a normal life (we managed it in Europe mostly, the US could have done it with more leadership towards the "problematic" part of the country, which happens to have its leader in power. If he had instructed people to take it seriously, a good deal of them would have...). If you only flatten it, hospitals can cope for a few monthes more, but then you need to keep it flat. That is NOT happening. Overruning your hospitals with a 3-month delay is... not a goal. That means your economy is impeded even more seriously for a longer period of time. A serious, all-country, 2 months lockdown would have saved dozens of thousands of lives, really lowered to trackable levels the virus, and allowed a gradual, confident reopening with a better economic result. I really hope that you can come to agree on that point. The main reason this did not happen is one person. ---------------------------------------------------------- In other news, France is still looking good but there are some worrying metrics. The amount of calls to SOS Medecins on Covid suspicions have crept back up again from 150/day to around 300/day. This does not reflect (yet?) as people in hospitals and in ICU are still lowering every day (-115 to ~7k and -16 to ~500 respectively). However this is worrying. Testing is still done at very low level, which I am angry about. It seems we still have a shortage... My town and neighbors had prepared a large-scale testing, the state said "OK, prepare", and when everything was ready, they were told that there was no way they could be provided with several thousands tests. In Guyana, the colleague (next office) of my brother in law is ill with covid symptoms, has been sent home (no test...???!!), and the rest of the team still has to work (no tests either). That's... We definitely have a big issue on testing. They are, as they were 3 months ago, still only testing people in discovered clusters, and not isolated cases. Because they are probably not idiots, that mean they don't really have a choice, thus that we still can't get our hands on tests. This is on the government. On the good side, there's been an increase in cases in Mayenne, so the govt wants to test the whole département in a month or so. It's a good idea, but seeing what I just said about testing, I highly doubt they can achieve it. On another good side, our testing positive % is still very good at 1.22%. The R0 though, has been slowly creeping up and is now >1. You can view the metrics here : https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/suivi-indicateurs?location=FRA | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On July 11 2020 18:07 arbiter_md wrote: It's not the time to seek fault now. Need to find solutions first. Later we can write history and try to learn from it. The solution to get it under control is known, and has been known for months now. NY, Italy, Spain, etc. literally lined a path with bodies already on what not to do and how to get it under control when it's apocalyptic. Every state that is out of control for new cases needs to hard lockdown(masks enforced, curfews, restricted travel, non-essential businesses closed) until the caseload gets under control(~1-2 months). Acting like there was nothing they could've done makes me so fucking mad. It's impossible for the data from testing to lie. You can draw whatever conclusions you want from the data, but putting on blinders and plugging ears doesn't cure covid. They had the data to show what would happen, they have the wealth to make sure people don't starve while they implement the fix, and they had the means to move forward in a life where Covid exists, and spectacularly fucked it up. It's already be too late to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed in some states(restrictions take several weeks to show effects), but the moment that happens the death rate goes up by an order of magnitude. At this point, every single day that a lockdown isn't implemented, thousands will die. It's not even the death toll that is going to be the long term effect of this. I see more and more research almost every day now on reddit about how it damages literally every organ in the body(including the brain), causes blood clots, increases the risk of strokes or heart attacks and so on, in addition to the respiratory damage(there are people on this forum who have stories of friends/family struggling to climb a flight of stairs months after covid). For every person that passes away from Covid there could be ten more who have drastically reduced quality of life after surviving. That's easily a million people in the US already, and the number of people who pass from Covid related causes are just going to go up in the months and years to come. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12008 Posts
On July 11 2020 19:16 Amui wrote: The solution to get it under control is known, and has been known for months now. NY, Italy, Spain, etc. literally lined a path with bodies already on what not to do. Every state that is out of control for new cases needs to hard lockdown(masks enforced, curfews, restricted travel, non-essential businesses closed) until the caseload gets under control(~1-2 months). Acting like there was nothing they could've done makes me so fucking mad. It's impossible for the data from testing to lie. You can draw whatever conclusions you want from the data, but putting on blinders and plugging ears doesn't cure covid. They had the data to show what would happen, they have the wealth to make sure people don't starve while they implement the fix, and they had the means to move forward in a life where Covid exists, and spectacularly fucked it up. It might already be too late to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed in some states(restrictions take several weeks to show effects), but the moment that happens the death rate goes up by an order of magnitude. At this point, every single day that a lockdown isn't implemented, thousands will die. It's not even the death toll that is going to be the long term effect of this. I see more and more research almost every day now on reddit about how it damages literally every organ in the body(including the brain), causes blood clots, increases the risk of strokes or heart attacks and so on, in addition to the respiratory damage(there are people on this forum who have stories of people struggling to climb a flight of stairs months after covid). For every person that passes away from Covid there could be ten more who have drastically reduced quality of life after surviving. Yeah, this is the strange thing. We already have a strategy that works pretty good. Not perfect, but it works. Lockdown for 1-2 months until numbers get low enough. Then slowly reopen, but always keep some social distancing and masks active. Wash your hands regularly. Don't sneeze in your hands. Try to not have too much mixing between people. Some is acceptable once you are in the reopening phase. Keep your distance, don't shake hands. Don't touch people. If you have to meet people, meet them outside if at all possible. Don't have huge events. A lot of this is hard to reinforce as a government (some is easy). But you can get buyin from the population, and if you have that and people self-regulate to try to isolate as much as possible, you can even open up a bit further. If there is a general acceptance in the population that social distancing is important, you can get by with only few actual hard governmental actions. None of this is rocket science. We have had a bunch of countries prove that this works. We have not had any country prove that anything else works well. | ||
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