EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 166
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On May 18 2020 16:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: Norway is doing pretty great.. If we look at the 5 week peak-period between March 10th and April 15th, we went from 400 to 6800 cases. April 15th to now, 6800 to 8250, so only 1450 new ones. Deaths lag ten days behind - but between March 20th and April 25th we went from 7 deaths to 201. From April 25th until May 18th, 201 to 232. We've been opening up quite a bit the last couple weeks, and the weekend that just passed was the biggest party weekend of the year in Norway. And while people were definitely more reserved than most years, there was definitely a fair amount of partying happening. IF there's still a considerable amount of hidden infections, we should see a spike again a couple weeks from now, but frankly, I think the infected- case might have been so low that we don't see much of a resurgence. I suppose I see Norway (or Norway + Finland combined for comparable population size) as a version of what Sweden would look like if it had done the same lockdown as everyone else. That does give an interesting perspective: despite the objectively not-so-bad data of Sweden, when you look at what the other comparable countries have it is quite bad indeed. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On May 18 2020 22:08 NrG.Bamboo wrote: Today I return to work (retail). Curious to see how our employee/customer interaction goes in reference to safety protocol. Our store already had large issues with theft/rowdy customers/homeless folks looking for a place to chill, as it's not in a good neighborhood and has little to no capability to enforce any rules it comes up with. I doubt that the people willing to throw hands at the drop of a hat are going to peacefully comply with capacity limits, mask requirements etc. All the best and I hope you can stay safe | ||
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Slydie
1919 Posts
On May 18 2020 23:04 LegalLord wrote: I suppose I see Norway (or Norway + Finland combined for comparable population size) as a version of what Sweden would look like if it had done the same lockdown as everyone else. That does give an interesting perspective: despite the objectively not-so-bad data of Sweden, when you look at what the other comparable countries have it is quite bad indeed. It goes deeper than that. Norway in particular has better educated staff and a better chain of responsibility for homes for the elderly, for example. Sweden was right about not closing their schools, and other countries have followed suit. It will probably be studied for many years to come. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10656 Posts
On May 18 2020 22:08 NrG.Bamboo wrote: Today I return to work (retail). Curious to see how our employee/customer interaction goes in reference to safety protocol. Our store already had large issues with theft/rowdy customers/homeless folks looking for a place to chill, as it's not in a good neighborhood and has little to no capability to enforce any rules it comes up with. I doubt that the people willing to throw hands at the drop of a hat are going to peacefully comply with capacity limits, mask requirements etc. Stay safe dude. I work as a supplier for Walmart and CVS, I run into all sorts of customers/loiterers. I kindly ask anyone who gets too close to respect a 6ft distance (sometimes not so kindly). | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
Ive also started to see people throwing some sort of weird outside parties? Like lots of trucks and ~20 - 30 people drinking and hanging out in parking lots? I think since VA announced it was loosening some restrictions on some businesses people have opted into their "PANDEMIC IS OVER" responses. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On May 19 2020 05:21 SC-Shield wrote: Gym and sport activities resume here. Group sports shouldn't have more than 10 people. New cases decrease or stay the same mostly, so a lot of restrictions have been lifted so far. It's ok to go to park, mall, gym and to leave/enter city for any personal reason. It's still forbidden to go indoors without a mask though, so that means going to shop/mall/etc still requires a mask. Entering the country leads to 14-day self imposed quarantine (there are fines if not followed). That sounds reasonable. And in two weeks, you should have an idea if stuff like malls and gyms should remain open. The governor here is sounding optimistic notes about resuming pro sports in June as a kind of olive branch for the people. A minority of counties are allowing businesses to open, partly defying the governors orders. And nonessential businesses are starting to open with strict mask requirements, sometimes with the sheriff announcing that they’re in violation of the governors orders and then deputies standing around doing nothing to stop. (Example) Outdoor activities in California increasingly show that the open air is not a major vector for infection. Beaches have been open 2.5weeks to a month, with no uptick in my county’s cases (~3 mil people, reports daily). Parks are now open. I observed some crowding on local trails (mountains to sea), but nothing too major. Regulation is masks in parking lots, trailheads, and vistas. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
https://www.kptv.com/news/judge-tosses-out-gov-kate-browns-coronavirus-restrictions-in-oregon/article_6ca8864b-10ab-508c-b3f5-8586fb842792.html Total train wreck | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10656 Posts
Overall US seems to be doing okay. Whatever we learned from the first wave we will be better prepared when the second wave happens. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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pmh
1352 Posts
On May 19 2020 07:15 Mohdoo wrote: lol some churches sued the governor of Oregon saying social distancing is unconstitutional. https://www.kptv.com/news/judge-tosses-out-gov-kate-browns-coronavirus-restrictions-in-oregon/article_6ca8864b-10ab-508c-b3f5-8586fb842792.html Total train wreck In france a blanket ban has to be lifted according to court. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52716729 There was a discussion on dutch radio between two people from 2 different churches about re-opening churches. One of them was willing to wait,arguing that to keep r0 down we can only open so much and choices had to be made. Churches beeing not an essential activity of commerce should take the high ground and wait,giving preference over more essential sectors to help minimize the economic impact and prevent the danger of people going into poverty. The other one did not agree and ignored the argument, kept repeating churches should not be treated differently then other sectors and thus should be able to open up alongside and together with other sectors. To me it makes sense to first open up the sectors where you can gain the most,for example sectors with a small risk of infection that have a high economic value. And then later open up sectors where the risk of infection is high (which churches seem to be) and which have a low economic value. Economic value is not the only thing to consider though so i can somewhat understand both positions but if it was up to me churches would have to wait. Which at least some of them are willing to do. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
1. Caters to an older demographic than most businesses 2. A large group of people in an indoor space for many hours 3. Social pressure to avoid washing hands etc while in the middle of a sermon Hard to argue that there's any benefit to being allowed to open vs online sermons. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On May 19 2020 10:52 Lmui wrote: Churches have: 1. Caters to an older demographic than most businesses 2. A large group of people in an indoor space for many hours 3. Social pressure to avoid washing hands etc while in the middle of a sermon Hard to argue that there's any benefit to being allowed to open vs online sermons. That's what is weird to me. Why in person? Church clearly has a distinct benefit to a lot of people, but that benefit should be achievable through online conferencing. The idea that people need to be immersed in spiritual gathering is where I bail out. Spiritual guidance and community are important to a lot of people, but the idea that you need to physically exist in a church at the time is a load of bullshit. Gathering in person is clearly stupid. If Sikh guys can shave their beards for covid, rural america can join the Zoom meeting and deal with it. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
For a whole host of reasons, any church openings should be accompanied by urging 60+ to stay home, wear masks, sit several feet apart from other people. Ventilate through windows and/or fans. For society's benefit, it should accompany the opening of schools, malls, indoor recreation facilities, and gyms. The exclusion of churches from similar indoor facilities (not oriented towards essential activities like grocery stores) would just exacerbate civil disobedience, of the kind I'm sure you've seen on protest signs. But any further in that line and it's gonna be some kind of live sports/televised sports same/different, cultural anthropology, and theology, so I'll stop. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
If the churches were willing to make some concessions to the pandemic, I'm somewhat OK with it. Most of the ones I've heard about have not, though. Some things could be relatively safe - sermons can be given via loud speaker (or loud shouting) and people can sit with their own families fairly spread out in the pews. Communion/Donations can be done without passing a plate. The stories I've heard have been basically anti-any restrictions whatsoever, though. There's no need for choir currently (a choir practice down south resulted in some crazy fatality rate). Some of the biggest complainers have been megachurches, where you're sitting 3 miles back anyways and it's functionally no different than an online stream as you have to watch a tv to see anything. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On May 19 2020 12:43 Danglars wrote: You're gonna run up against the cultural state of affairs where church is a community meeting in the flesh. Compare to someone that says all universities should suspend in-person classes permanently to reduce the potential for spreading disease. It really fails for the same reason someone would want to join a fraternity, but never meet them socially except online, or saying they have a close friend, but never spend time with them except online. The latter three examples sort of illustrate how foolish it is to suggest watching church on a screen is tantamount to meeting in church as a community. For a whole host of reasons, any church openings should be accompanied by urging 60+ to stay home, wear masks, sit several feet apart from other people. Ventilate through windows and/or fans. For society's benefit, it should accompany the opening of schools, malls, indoor recreation facilities, and gyms. The exclusion of churches from similar indoor facilities (not oriented towards essential activities like grocery stores) would just exacerbate civil disobedience, of the kind I'm sure you've seen on protest signs. But any further in that line and it's gonna be some kind of live sports/televised sports same/different, cultural anthropology, and theology, so I'll stop. Those are worthwhile things to ask someone to do temporarily. When the US hasn't been involved with a pandemic in 100 years, it is reasonable to say "so what if we don't go to church in person?". I haven't seen any of my friends in over 2 months. It isn't fun. That's how it goes. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On May 19 2020 13:29 Mohdoo wrote: Those are worthwhile things to ask someone to do temporarily. When the US hasn't been involved with a pandemic in 100 years, it is reasonable to say "so what if we don't go to church in person?". I haven't seen any of my friends in over 2 months. It isn't fun. That's how it goes. I'm explicitly tying church lockdown orders to other indoor, recirculated air setups, like gyms, malls, rec (eg bowling alleys), schools. Church members are just as able as the rest to enact best practices as mentioned. That's really the context that I'm looking to, not abstracting it to churches in all lockdown contexts. Right now, the best intermediate I can see looking at available evidence is to just have church outside if your state isn't one of the handful in a major growth phase. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
But are they willing to? That's the question I think about much more if we're taking American churches how some of them are presented on TV here in Germany. I do realize that this could possibly be a vocal minority. | ||
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