Seems like many ex-ATVI guys set off to run their own shops are getting crushed. ex Creative Director Rob Pardo ran Blizzard's games during the apex of the company and he has not made a game in 11 years. David Kim, Tim Morten, Chris Sigaty, Dustin Browder, etc etc.
Secret Door, Moonshot Games, Bonfire Studios, Runic Games, FrostGate are all in big trouble. The WoW guys who made that Marvel mobile card game did pretty good though. They are the exception to the rule.
Bobby Kotick was so good at marketing, promotion, and managing genius-level talent that he made it look easy.
I want a job @ Bonfire Studios as "Culture Manager" or "Community Liaison" or whatever made up BS title they can give me. Do nothing for 10 years...get paid.
Sad, but there is so many games coming out that it makes it hard for games to stand out these days.Plus still plenty of games released in past 15 years that hold up very well and can be picked up very cheaply.
Got a feeling that AI developed games & AI assets are going to be a much bigger thing in 5 years than they are now which is bad news for both workers and gamers.Over 18k games released on steam last year which is already 2x what was released in 2020, imagine those numbers when AI puts together half or more of a game.
Why is it a bad thing for gamers?
A lesson of the last 5-10 years of game development is that design matters. Breakout successes in things like Stardew Valley, Vampire Survivors, Clair Obscur Exp33, Slay the Spire etc, many of which were made on virtually no budget, show that it's the design that makes games good, not the resources pumped into it. Games being made easier to make via AI tooling does mean there will be MORE games (and therefore more shit games) but as gamers we don't need to play everything, we can just play the ones that are interesting to us.
If AI tooling was already prevalent everywhere, and you were to tell me 30% of Clair Obscur was AI generated textures or whatever, I would be impressed because it didn't detract from the experience.
Ethical concerns of AI aside, I don't see how AI being used in game dev will be worse for gamers. There's already heaps and heaps of shovelware I don't play, if the next COD game is 50% AI generated that will impact me, or its userbase, very little.
Exactly, more games made to a higher quality on a lower budget is good. Means we get more releases and through that a decent chance of surprise hits. We will still have a few high budget games a year but fewer than now. Since I couldn't play all the high budget games in a year, that seems fine to me.
I think the AA type of studios will disappear though. Too much competition eating into them from below, not enough marketing power to survive.
Are Hello Games way of game developing as brilliant as it seems to be? No mans sky is probably the biggest comeback in gaming history and it seems like they have learned their lessons. I was never that interested but the new update that let's you build your own ship that you can walk around in was to much to ignore.
Their new concept seems to be to develop their new game on the same engine that they are upgrading, but they are porting in parts of new developments back to NMS.
1. It brings in a lot of new revenue as people buy NMS. 2. It allows them to focus on really upgrading their engine to do the cool things they want for a longer time. 3. Allows them to test their tech before release and people don't mind the bugs since it's free updates. 4. Generates interest in their new game without promising anything or even talking about it.
People are hyped about building starships but at the same time they discuss why they need that tech in Light No Fire.
Seems like many ex-ATVI guys set off to run their own shops are getting crushed. ex Creative Director Rob Pardo ran Blizzard's games during the apex of the company and he has not made a game in 11 years. David Kim, Tim Morten, Chris Sigaty, Dustin Browder, etc etc.
Secret Door, Moonshot Games, Bonfire Studios, Runic Games, FrostGate are all in big trouble. The WoW guys who made that Marvel mobile card game did pretty good though. They are the exception to the rule.
Bobby Kotick was so good at marketing, promotion, and managing genius-level talent that he made it look easy.
I want a job @ Bonfire Studios as "Culture Manager" or "Community Liaison" or whatever made up BS title they can give me. Do nothing for 10 years...get paid.
Sad, but there is so many games coming out that it makes it hard for games to stand out these days.Plus still plenty of games released in past 15 years that hold up very well and can be picked up very cheaply.
Got a feeling that AI developed games & AI assets are going to be a much bigger thing in 5 years than they are now which is bad news for both workers and gamers.Over 18k games released on steam last year which is already 2x what was released in 2020, imagine those numbers when AI puts together half or more of a game.
Why is it a bad thing for gamers?
A lesson of the last 5-10 years of game development is that design matters. Breakout successes in things like Stardew Valley, Vampire Survivors, Clair Obscur Exp33, Slay the Spire etc, many of which were made on virtually no budget, show that it's the design that makes games good, not the resources pumped into it. Games being made easier to make via AI tooling does mean there will be MORE games (and therefore more shit games) but as gamers we don't need to play everything, we can just play the ones that are interesting to us.
If AI tooling was already prevalent everywhere, and you were to tell me 30% of Clair Obscur was AI generated textures or whatever, I would be impressed because it didn't detract from the experience.
Ethical concerns of AI aside, I don't see how AI being used in game dev will be worse for gamers. There's already heaps and heaps of shovelware I don't play, if the next COD game is 50% AI generated that will impact me, or its userbase, very little.
Exactly, more games made to a higher quality on a lower budget is good. Means we get more releases and through that a decent chance of surprise hits. We will still have a few high budget games a year but fewer than now. Since I couldn't play all the high budget games in a year, that seems fine to me.
I think the AA type of studios will disappear though. Too much competition eating into them from below, not enough marketing power to survive.
Some of the best games of this year are AA? Expedition 33, Alters, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2.
I'd say AA's are thriving. Sure it can be a tough market with the competition but there are some real gems shining through.
On September 07 2025 18:02 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Are Hello Games way of game developing as brilliant as it seems to be? No mans sky is probably the biggest comeback in gaming history and it seems like they have learned their lessons. I was never that interested but the new update that let's you build your own ship that you can walk around in was to much to ignore.
Their new concept seems to be to develop their new game on the same engine that they are upgrading, but they are porting in parts of new developments back to NMS.
1. It brings in a lot of new revenue as people buy NMS. 2. It allows them to focus on really upgrading their engine to do the cool things they want for a longer time. 3. Allows them to test their tech before release and people don't mind the bugs since it's free updates. 4. Generates interest in their new game without promising anything or even talking about it.
People are hyped about building starships but at the same time they discuss why they need that tech in Light No Fire.
This is how games used to be developed isn't it? You made an engine for game 1, used it for game 3-4 and then had to scrap it since it is too old and restart. Baldur's Gate, Icewind dale etc is a good example of this. I assume the Warcraft 1 to Starcraft Broodwar is another series.
Problem is that it is expensive compared to using somebody else's engine, but allows you unique games. Even huge studios decide the cost of maintaining their own engine is too expensive as in CDProject deciding to move from their own engine after Cyberpunk.
The cost if you want to compete on a lot features and the best optimized high end graphics is insane though. So if that is what you are after, doing your own engine doesn't make sense.
On September 07 2025 18:02 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Are Hello Games way of game developing as brilliant as it seems to be? No mans sky is probably the biggest comeback in gaming history and it seems like they have learned their lessons. I was never that interested but the new update that let's you build your own ship that you can walk around in was to much to ignore.
Their new concept seems to be to develop their new game on the same engine that they are upgrading, but they are porting in parts of new developments back to NMS.
1. It brings in a lot of new revenue as people buy NMS. 2. It allows them to focus on really upgrading their engine to do the cool things they want for a longer time. 3. Allows them to test their tech before release and people don't mind the bugs since it's free updates. 4. Generates interest in their new game without promising anything or even talking about it.
People are hyped about building starships but at the same time they discuss why they need that tech in Light No Fire.
This is how games used to be developed isn't it? You made an engine for game 1, used it for game 3-4 and then had to scrap it since it is too old and restart. Baldur's Gate, Icewind dale etc is a good example of this. I assume the Warcraft 1 to Starcraft Broodwar is another series.
Problem is that it is expensive compared to using somebody else's engine, but allows you unique games. Even huge studios decide the cost of maintaining their own engine is too expensive as in CDProject deciding to move from their own engine after Cyberpunk.
The cost if you want to compete on a lot features and the best optimized high end graphics is insane though. So if that is what you are after, doing your own engine doesn't make sense.
Probably true. But I see it as an absolute bonus if your game has an idea that is so wild it's better to build your own engine or tools than it is to modify a standard one.
Features and graphics only applies to gamers with hardware to run it so having the "best" graphics only applies to a small percentage of your customer base. And all the while you are competing against a saturated market of FPS and 3rd person shooters running on the same engine trying to find their own niche.
Also in the past when a game was done it was done until the expansion came out. Black Isles never backported things to BG1 (but imagine if they had, like stacking arrows, quivers, scroll cases and even a bag of holding) while working on BG2.
Maybe it's because I am an old gamer but I find the solution really elegant. Also it's funny that LNF is aimed at solving the nr1 problem with NMS which is the shallow mono biome planets.
I imagine if they keep the concept of starting NMS2 as they release LNF that game could be a truly insane experience.
The great news in all of this is that we're getting back to the days of very small teams making complete games.
On September 07 2025 18:06 Gorsameth wrote: I'd say AA's are thriving. Sure it can be a tough market with the competition but there are some real gems shining through.
i agree. to add to what you are saying: who has the time to play all this stuff?
I'm gearing up for an Atari 7800+ binge. I am super fucking pumped for the new "Pac Man Double Feature" game made by AtariAge living legend Bob Decrescenzo. There is a 2 player competitive version of the game where 1 player controls the Red Ghost and the other player controls Pac-man.
look! its a CEO who actually, you know, ummm, plays video games.
It is nice to see people like Decrescenzo, Javier Martinez, Ari Gibson, William Pellen and Jack Vine doing great.
Problem is that it is expensive compared to using somebody else's engine, but allows you unique games. Even huge studios decide the cost of maintaining their own engine is too expensive as in CDProject deciding to move from their own engine after Cyberpunk.
The cost if you want to compete on a lot features and the best optimized high end graphics is insane though. So if that is what you are after, doing your own engine doesn't make sense.
Hollow Knight and its sequel were made by 2 full timers and 2 part timers. The sequel hit 585,000 concurrents on Steam. The game is on Microsoft Game Pass.
On September 08 2025 21:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Hollow Knight and its sequel were made by 2 full timers and 2 part timers. The sequel hit 585,000 concurrents on Steam. The game is on Microsoft Game Pass.
Yeah. It is not really new information that small teams of competent indie devs can make amazing indie games, and if they are lucky in the age of social media, those games are a runaway success. There are dozens of examples of that.
And honestly, to me that is the future of gaming. Not massive games made by hundreds of people, but smaller games with a vision. They are definitively the games i play the most.
Problem is that it is expensive compared to using somebody else's engine, but allows you unique games. Even huge studios decide the cost of maintaining their own engine is too expensive as in CDProject deciding to move from their own engine after Cyberpunk.
The cost if you want to compete on a lot features and the best optimized high end graphics is insane though. So if that is what you are after, doing your own engine doesn't make sense.
Would cyberpunk be considered AA or AAA?
Cyberpunk 2077 is rumored to be the second most expensive game in the history of games... (after Star Citizen) Cyperpunk is AAAA+
Problem is that it is expensive compared to using somebody else's engine, but allows you unique games. Even huge studios decide the cost of maintaining their own engine is too expensive as in CDProject deciding to move from their own engine after Cyberpunk.
The cost if you want to compete on a lot features and the best optimized high end graphics is insane though. So if that is what you are after, doing your own engine doesn't make sense.
Would cyberpunk be considered AA or AAA?
Cyberpunk 2077 is rumored to be the second most expensive game in the history of games... (after Star Citizen) Cyperpunk is AAAA+
Agreed. I think there are more expensive live service games though since they keep a development team much longer after release.
Some sports game franchises could be similar in cost due to licensing costs. The games themselves aren't that expensive.
EPT
