Who wants to go to a regular job indefinitely while you just "pay their bills" ? ZZZzzzzz.....
play it right and you're off the regular job tread mill in under 5 years.

again though, you have to love your craft. if you don't you're better off doing something else.

Show nested quote +

a major part of the industry's foundation is various personal projects.

Most people. That is most people’s relationship with their job.

If you can match it with a passion, great! Nothing wrong with that. But you’re so out of touch with people who aren’t you it’s unbelievable.

Acrofales

Spain17966 Posts

May 02 2025 14:48 GMT

#1502

Also, I don't think most freelance consultants are off the regular job treadmill. They're trading security for freedom and potentially larger margins. But most coders I know (and I've been in and out of diff software companies for most of my life) are just regular 9-5 jobbers, and the consultants I know fall in two groups: already made it (usually with crypto) and just doing consulting work as a way to stay busy. Their life doesn't depend on lining up the next project, or the ones that work their asses off to deliver quality projects in a timely manner, and their livelihood does depend on the next project lining up, but the good ones usually have more work than they can do anyway; doesn't stop them from working like crazy.

The latter doesn't sound like being off the treadmill. It's just a different treadmill.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16673 Posts

May 03 2025 12:01 GMT

#1503

On May 02 2025 23:48 Acrofales wrote:
Also, I don't think most freelance consultants are off the regular job treadmill. They're trading security for freedom and potentially larger margins. But most coders I know (and I've been in and out of diff software companies for most of my life) are just regular 9-5 jobbers, and the consultants I know fall in two groups: already made it (usually with crypto) and just doing consulting work as a way to stay busy. Their life doesn't depend on lining up the next project, or the ones that work their asses off to deliver quality projects in a timely manner, and their livelihood does depend on the next project lining up, but the good ones usually have more work than they can do anyway; doesn't stop them from working like crazy.

The latter doesn't sound like being off the treadmill. It's just a different treadmill.

If you have 7 cars, 3 go karts, 2 boats, and 2 cottages you never get off the treadmill. Frivolous spending habits keep you on the treadmill forever.

That qualification aside, you get off the treadmill by making software products. Once most of your income is derived from selling the software product(s) rather than your time you can leave the treadmill if you wish. Usually you can expand upon some specific development task/project at work to create a product. You can complete the whole thing while at work.

Concrete Examples
+ Show Spoiler +

Rick Strahl is a good example of what I'm referring. He spends most of his weekends and evenings surfing and lives in Hawaii. This is how its done folks.

Often times you can expand a 9 to 5 work project and turn it into your own product. Rick Strahl made xBase data retrievable over TCP/IP with West Wind Web Connection. In 2007, I was working on a custom report writer to replace Crystal Reports. I was making my own report writer product in parallel with completing the specific job tasks. Stonefield Systems Group wasn't happy when they found out a year later. Whatever man. I built my own personal language compiler rather than converting a bunch of Clipper/Foxpro/xBase applications into modern C#/SQL. Rick Strahl made the Markdown Monster Editor to make his work day easier. He sells it. One of the guys I play C&C and SC2 with made Icomoon to solve a problem with slow loading Wordpress pages at his job.

Every gaping hole in any orgs "tech stack" can become a product.

WombaT

Northern Ireland25010 Posts

May 03 2025 15:41 GMT

#1504

I don’t think anyone disputes that getting situated in such a manner is nice work if you can get it.

Equally, compared to 20/30+ years ago there’s plenty of work going that’s just a regular 9-5, you’ll be alright with basic competence and often the work-life balance and salary is absolutely sufficient for many folks.

One of my dad’s pals could have pushed a bit further, equally he got to a level he was happy at, did his music on the side and has several critically acclaimed (albeit niche) albums under the belt, record deal, got to play in Las Vegas supporting Neurosis (one of his all-time favourite bands) so he’s quite happy with that trade.

A path I hope to follow myself although I dunno if I’ll be playing Vegas any time soon!

Fundamentally it comes down to wanting to be an excellent engineer, or a decent one, plenty are alright with the latter. If you wanna be the former, great!

It’s advice reminiscent of ‘everyone should have a side hustle’, it’s 100% grand if it aligns well, but I think a 9-5 should cover your basic needs and only do a side hustle if it’s something you’re really passionate about.

Like yeah I could teach guitar on the side, but I’m only really interested in playing and writing. I also had an extremely atypical practice regimen versus every other musician I know, so I’m a fucking terrible teacher to anyone who isn’t a clone of me (or perhaps Minibat when he expresses some interest). Or my partner loves art but hated doing commission work when she tried it, you make a passion into a chore and you kill the passion.