On March 31 2025 21:32 WombaT wrote: Jimmy literally nobody in thread actually disagrees with that, everyone has said basically exactly that.
Graphics are getting better, but they’re not making big ‘wow’ jumps, because returns are diminishing there. If you’d, I don’t know, actually read people’s posts you wouldn’t need to make your own arguing against people who already made the exact same points and agree with the points you’re making.
i'm glad we all agree. However, I'd say graphics are same because we are requiring more computing horsepower and expense in order to deliver improvements that are almost unnoticeable. Thus, when cost is factored in graphics are staying the same. Whereas, by 1990 you could play Arcade Punch Out on cheap hardware.
in the past, graphics got substantially better on the same hardware.
For the most part, more horsepower is needed because there is more stuff on the screen. More NPCs, more trees, more flowers, more houses, more mountains, wider range of view, longer range of view, more shadows, better shadows. More fucking leaves on trees moving independantly. Things are not better looking than 10 years ago. Just more of it. That is where your horsepower goes. And sometimes the games are just horribly optimized and your horsepower just goes down the drain
More of all that stuff does mean better though. More hair strands, leaves, shadows, NPCs, distant mountains, that all means a more complete picture closer to real life.
It’s also wrong and reductive to a point that most of these people whinging about video games are the same people who spend more time whinging than actually playing. The same type of guys who keep reminiscing about video games from their childhood because that’s the last time they were able to enjoy video games.
Like you are legitimately blind in the same way as people who can’t differentiate 30 FPS from 120 FPS if you think the current generation of higher budget fighting games are not meaningfully more fluid and graphically better than their most recent predecessors.
There are a whole load of circumstances that have resulted in a large number of games coming out with relatively meagre technical improvements vs last generation games, the major one being most of these games literally being last generation games that started production during the last generation.
Honestly the coolest stuff from games visually isnt even in the photorealism spectrum, the coolest stuff is the really creative and interesting ways people are managing to do things like create liminal spaces, abuse post processing to create some really cool visual stylization, people's hyperfixation on fucking Call of Duty and other games that are about being as hyper real as possible is such a plague, Ill add Overwatch and Fortnite as being plagues too, but mostly because of how many dipshit investor types point to it and go "unga bunga me want fortnite look unga bunga," completely unable to understand that people who aren't artists or art adjacent shouldnt make art decisions.
Still, theres a lot of really wonderful looking games out there, Slime Rancher 2 has hue shifting grass thats really nicely done, Hades' black cel shading look is spreading aggressively out there atm, Return of the Obra Dinn has a great aesthetic with their shader/postprocessing. So much thoughtful great looking work out there outside of But Can I See Every Pore Possible?
On April 02 2025 23:30 Zambrah wrote: Honestly the coolest stuff from games visually isnt even in the photorealism spectrum, the coolest stuff is the really creative and interesting ways people are managing to do things like create liminal spaces, abuse post processing to create some really cool visual stylization, people's hyperfixation on fucking Call of Duty and other games that are about being as hyper real as possible is such a plague, Ill add Overwatch and Fortnite as being plagues too, but mostly because of how many dipshit investor types point to it and go "unga bunga me want fortnite look unga bunga," completely unable to understand that people who aren't artists or art adjacent shouldnt make art decisions.
Still, theres a lot of really wonderful looking games out there, Slime Rancher 2 has hue shifting grass thats really nicely done, Hades' black cel shading look is spreading aggressively out there atm, Return of the Obra Dinn has a great aesthetic with their shader/postprocessing. So much thoughtful great looking work out there outside of But Can I See Every Pore Possible?
The main problem in pushing the graphical envelope is 4K or 4K+ becoming more widely adopted, which are swallowing up gains, it adds much more overhead than many realise.
We had long epochs of 540 or 720p for example and over time and with better hardware more and more was squeezed from that hardware with a pretty consistent display end point. If this current gen had just squeezed the most you could out of like 1440 or whatever you’d be seeing more juice squeezed from the orange.
But as to your point, yeah 100%. Gimme a great, distinctive artstyle and that hits further for sure. Any other recommendations btw? You’re a man of taste!
I generally don't care for anything that is higher res than 1080p. I could maybe understand a case for 1440p, but anything higher than that is just flexing.
On April 02 2025 23:30 Zambrah wrote: Honestly the coolest stuff from games visually isnt even in the photorealism spectrum, the coolest stuff is the really creative and interesting ways people are managing to do things like create liminal spaces, abuse post processing to create some really cool visual stylization, people's hyperfixation on fucking Call of Duty and other games that are about being as hyper real as possible is such a plague, Ill add Overwatch and Fortnite as being plagues too, but mostly because of how many dipshit investor types point to it and go "unga bunga me want fortnite look unga bunga," completely unable to understand that people who aren't artists or art adjacent shouldnt make art decisions.
Still, theres a lot of really wonderful looking games out there, Slime Rancher 2 has hue shifting grass thats really nicely done, Hades' black cel shading look is spreading aggressively out there atm, Return of the Obra Dinn has a great aesthetic with their shader/postprocessing. So much thoughtful great looking work out there outside of But Can I See Every Pore Possible?
In short, graphics have improved, and the improvement in graphics have allowed designers to more completely achieve their visions. Solid examples imo are some of the breathtaking scenes/landscapes in Elden Ring, compared to even Dark Souls 2. Facial capture/animation in Death Stranding or The Last of Us 2 also stand out, to me. Saying 'graphics haven't improved' is silly - the level of restriction on designers because 'we technologically can't do that' has decreased and continues to decrease over time.
On April 02 2025 23:30 Zambrah wrote: Honestly the coolest stuff from games visually isnt even in the photorealism spectrum, the coolest stuff is the really creative and interesting ways people are managing to do things like create liminal spaces, abuse post processing to create some really cool visual stylization, people's hyperfixation on fucking Call of Duty and other games that are about being as hyper real as possible is such a plague, Ill add Overwatch and Fortnite as being plagues too, but mostly because of how many dipshit investor types point to it and go "unga bunga me want fortnite look unga bunga," completely unable to understand that people who aren't artists or art adjacent shouldnt make art decisions.
Still, theres a lot of really wonderful looking games out there, Slime Rancher 2 has hue shifting grass thats really nicely done, Hades' black cel shading look is spreading aggressively out there atm, Return of the Obra Dinn has a great aesthetic with their shader/postprocessing. So much thoughtful great looking work out there outside of But Can I See Every Pore Possible?
In short, graphics have improved, and the improvement in graphics have allowed designers to more completely achieve their visions. Solid examples imo are some of the breathtaking scenes/landscapes in Elden Ring, compared to even Dark Souls 2. Facial capture/animation in Death Stranding or The Last of Us 2 also stand out, to me. Saying 'graphics haven't improved' is silly - the level of restriction on designers because 'we technologically can't do that' has decreased and continues to decrease over time.
I was blown away by the presentation of both Hellblade games. Wouldn’t spend retail on them, but as Game Pass is basically what renting a game for a weekend used to be, great. The audio design is also absolutely fantastic.
On April 02 2025 09:36 Hat Trick of Today wrote: Like you are legitimately blind in the same way as people who can’t differentiate 30 FPS from 120 FPS if you think the current generation of higher budget fighting games are not meaningfully more fluid and graphically better than their most recent predecessors.
if a targeted consumer can not tell the difference then there is no difference.
On April 02 2025 09:36 Hat Trick of Today wrote: There are a whole load of circumstances that have resulted in a large number of games coming out with relatively meagre technical improvements vs last generation games, the major one being most of these games literally being last generation games that started production during the last generation.
When mediocre games take 5+ years to make they risk becoming irrelevant due to changing tastes and preferences. They are tech demos... they are not games. However, they can be very good at raising money from investors so they can spend lots of money telling us how great the game might be some day in the future.
It is comical that investor capital is easy enough to obtain that orgs can take more than 1 console cycle to make one game. I want a job at Bonfire Studios!
In this kind of environment I have no clue how your average software engineer obtains any level of professional fulfillment. I think most know the disaster for which they're signing up; they just want to cash.
On April 03 2025 08:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the hobby of video game voice acting is going back to computer generated sounds where it started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11v2g9C_f4
On April 02 2025 09:36 Hat Trick of Today wrote: Like you are legitimately blind in the same way as people who can’t differentiate 30 FPS from 120 FPS if you think the current generation of higher budget fighting games are not meaningfully more fluid and graphically better than their most recent predecessors.
if a targeted consumer can not tell the difference then there is no difference.
On April 02 2025 09:36 Hat Trick of Today wrote: There are a whole load of circumstances that have resulted in a large number of games coming out with relatively meagre technical improvements vs last generation games, the major one being most of these games literally being last generation games that started production during the last generation.
When mediocre games take 5+ years to make they risk becoming irrelevant due to changing tastes and preferences. They are tech demos... they are not games. However, they can be very good at raising money from investors so they can spend lots of money telling us how great the game might be some day in the future.
It is comical that investor capital is easy enough to obtain that orgs can take more than 1 console cycle to make one game. I want a job at Bonfire Studios!
In this kind of environment I have no clue how your average software engineer obtains any level of professional fulfillment. I think most know the disaster for which they're signing up; they just want to cash.
I’d appreciate it if you kept the anti-Semitic tropes off of TL, thanks
On April 02 2025 23:30 Zambrah wrote: Honestly the coolest stuff from games visually isnt even in the photorealism spectrum, the coolest stuff is the really creative and interesting ways people are managing to do things like create liminal spaces, abuse post processing to create some really cool visual stylization, people's hyperfixation on fucking Call of Duty and other games that are about being as hyper real as possible is such a plague, Ill add Overwatch and Fortnite as being plagues too, but mostly because of how many dipshit investor types point to it and go "unga bunga me want fortnite look unga bunga," completely unable to understand that people who aren't artists or art adjacent shouldnt make art decisions.
Still, theres a lot of really wonderful looking games out there, Slime Rancher 2 has hue shifting grass thats really nicely done, Hades' black cel shading look is spreading aggressively out there atm, Return of the Obra Dinn has a great aesthetic with their shader/postprocessing. So much thoughtful great looking work out there outside of But Can I See Every Pore Possible?
In short, graphics have improved, and the improvement in graphics have allowed designers to more completely achieve their visions. Solid examples imo are some of the breathtaking scenes/landscapes in Elden Ring, compared to even Dark Souls 2. Facial capture/animation in Death Stranding or The Last of Us 2 also stand out, to me. Saying 'graphics haven't improved' is silly - the level of restriction on designers because 'we technologically can't do that' has decreased and continues to decrease over time.
I was blown away by the presentation of both Hellblade games. Wouldn’t spend retail on them, but as Game Pass is basically what renting a game for a weekend used to be, great. The audio design is also absolutely fantastic.
To my shame, I haven't played either. They do rattle around in my brain as 'probably examples of solid vision, design and execution', but I haven't actually experienced them myself.
On April 02 2025 23:30 Zambrah wrote: Honestly the coolest stuff from games visually isnt even in the photorealism spectrum, the coolest stuff is the really creative and interesting ways people are managing to do things like create liminal spaces, abuse post processing to create some really cool visual stylization, people's hyperfixation on fucking Call of Duty and other games that are about being as hyper real as possible is such a plague, Ill add Overwatch and Fortnite as being plagues too, but mostly because of how many dipshit investor types point to it and go "unga bunga me want fortnite look unga bunga," completely unable to understand that people who aren't artists or art adjacent shouldnt make art decisions.
Still, theres a lot of really wonderful looking games out there, Slime Rancher 2 has hue shifting grass thats really nicely done, Hades' black cel shading look is spreading aggressively out there atm, Return of the Obra Dinn has a great aesthetic with their shader/postprocessing. So much thoughtful great looking work out there outside of But Can I See Every Pore Possible?
In short, graphics have improved, and the improvement in graphics have allowed designers to more completely achieve their visions. Solid examples imo are some of the breathtaking scenes/landscapes in Elden Ring, compared to even Dark Souls 2. Facial capture/animation in Death Stranding or The Last of Us 2 also stand out, to me. Saying 'graphics haven't improved' is silly - the level of restriction on designers because 'we technologically can't do that' has decreased and continues to decrease over time.
Yeah, theres some areas that have sort of hit serious diminishing returns a la photorealism, but even there things like simulations have a ton of room to become more efficient, so hair will eventually behave much more like it does in real life, clothing can have physics that adhere extremely closely to more complicated collision and complex simulations. VFX can have more particles, denser meshes, more mesh particles, more complicated mesh particles, more complicated simulations, games can render further so they can do the sort of Dark Soulsian thing where if you can see it you can go there more literally.
There are a lot of avenues through which improved technology can make games look better, that being said I will argue that at this point aesthetic considerations grossly outweigh any technological advancements that aren't being pretty creative with aesthetics or interesting gameplay mechanics that can abuse the hardware. Games as an industry is kind of a piss poor space for innovation in the AAA space, indie and AA games I think are going to flourish more given their ability and willingness to really experiment and push boundaries in interesting ways.
This is true for all software engineers.. not just software engineers in video games.
Pretty insightful that she points out that the "engineers" spending the most time at the foosball game are the ones who whine the most about "work-life balance". My work place has a video game // pinball // foosball // air hockey decathlon once every two months at a Barcade. I prefer to keep work and play physically separated lest they bleed into each other too much.
For many it’s just a job. Not everyone wants to live and breathe it, and that’s fine. If you want to excel, then yeah put in the hard yards. Or you can’t expect to have unlimited job security if you don’t keep on top of things like new popular languages and frameworks.
I don’t know many of my accountancy, lawyer, actuarial buddies who do much hobbyist projects alongside their day gigs. To take some examples.
On April 30 2025 00:22 WombaT wrote: For many it’s just a job. Not everyone wants to live and breathe it, and that’s fine. If you want to excel, then yeah put in the hard yards. Or you can’t expect to have unlimited job security if you don’t keep on top of things like new popular languages and frameworks.
I don’t know many of my accountancy, lawyer, actuarial buddies who do much hobbyist projects alongside their day gigs. To take some examples.
Are these accountants, lawyers and actuaries building anything though?
The good software engineers i know are constantly building cool stuff. This is where stuff like MAME, and PCSX2, and countless other passion projects come from.
Every highly skilled and very happy craftsman I know is always building something. My grandfathers never stop. They are constantly building things. They are builders right down to the core of their DNA. Its right there in their Cs and Gs and As and Ts.
OTOH, we have a whole generation of "tech workers" under 30 who have zero passion for their chosen craft. These tech workers are lazier than any front line employee you'll ever see.
I've been in both camps. I've been a lazy tech worker and I've been someone who lives, eats, and breathes software building. Really smart tech managers can tell the difference almost instantly. Now, they may hide their judgements from you because no poker player turns over their cards unless called down... but they know laziness when they see it. It is amazing the doors that open up just a few months after deciding to make software building the cornerstone of your life.
Sure, the economy is weak these days... the competition is just as weak.
On April 30 2025 00:22 WombaT wrote: Or you can’t expect to have unlimited job security if you don’t keep on top of things like new popular languages and frameworks.
i don't bother with the latest trends. when assessing whether or not to work with a customer a big factor is the value of the transactions in their database. if their payroll system cranks out $5M a week to 5,000 employees... that software system has my attention.
Job security comes from having multiple CIOs, CEOs, Data Officers, and IT Project Managers trusting you. Don't get fooled into running on a treadmill designed by HR losers who only know some buzzwords. Fuck them.. and fuck their bullshit.
On May 02 2025 00:24 WombaT wrote: I’m struggling to parse a view that you have to be doing passion projects all the time with one that doesn’t keep on top of trends in the profession. Can you clarify?
Before getting to the answer I should add this: hopefully you rarely feel like you "must" do your passion project. 80%+ of the time you should want to build cool stuff. If you are constantly forcing yourself to do stuff... perhaps building software is not for you.
Engage in your passion project with whatever tool best fits the job. So if you're creating Stella, MAME or NESticle you're probably not chasing whatever the latest trends are. Also, the install base of your tech stack is low. KNow that going in. So building Stella 2.0 is probably going nowhere... unless you are robert decrescenzo.
I code in C#, SAS, Visual Foxpro, C++, and PHP. These are ancient languages that produce reliable software. How old is ANSI-SQL? 1992 or something? meh, it works. For the past 20 years I've watched countless BS trends come and go. Fuck them all. If you have a CEO that trusts you... he or she will provide the latitude within the project to build it how you see fit. You may or may not sprinkle in something new? who knows.
How do you build trust with a CEO or CIO or Project Manager? Build reliable software on the deadlines you promise.
You require a proper foundation for building reliable software and a leader that trusts you. You do not need the latest BS technology that morons are raving about. The clowns raving about the latest BS tech usually do not want to step into the C# shark tank. This is shark tank with plenty of 10,000+ hour predators roaming the oceans. so these weak, insecure coders float around always playing with totally new and experimental stuff. This gives them all kinds of time to fuck around and produce nothing.
Fuck it man. Jump in the shark tank. If you're any good you'll be a C# shark in two years. If you have passed a few Actuarial Exams you can be a SAS shark in months. Granted the last exam to become an associate in the actuary society is pretty hard.
The current installation base of the technologies you are using matters. Why do I bother with xBase languages? The installation base and the billions of dollars in transactions that occur within xBase systems. Governments just don't want to give them up.
Also, if you are a 10,000+ hour C# shark you are far more capable of delving into whatever totally new stuff .NET 4.8.1 offers versus whatever you've been using. Be innovative ... FROM YOUR BASE.
You should be enjoying those 10,000+ hours of C# in the same way Jimmy Page and Eddie Van Halen enjoy playing the guitar. If hitting that "build exe" button doesn't give you a buzz... maybe making software isn't for you. If its not for you... its nothing to be ashamed of.... the hermit coder lifestyle isn't for everyone.
You don’t see any contradiction whatsoever in imploring people do do hobbyist programming in their spare time, because the job needs passion, and just refusing to keep on top of trends and experiment with them?
On May 02 2025 01:11 WombaT wrote: You don’t see any contradiction whatsoever in imploring people do do hobbyist programming in their spare time, because the job needs passion, and just refusing to keep on top of trends and experiment with them?
None at all?
i'm not imploring any one to do anything. if one is not passionate about it. don't do it. if you are passionate about crafting software then do exactly that. As the great Samwise Didier said "Always Be Creating".
On May 02 2025 01:11 WombaT wrote: You don’t see any contradiction whatsoever in imploring people do do hobbyist programming in their spare time, because the job needs passion, and just refusing to keep on top of trends and experiment with them?
None at all?
i'm not imploring any one to do anything. if one is not passionate about it. don't do it. if you are passionate about crafting software then do exactly that. As the great Samwise Didier said "Always Be Creating".
That is just a textbook imploration though lmao.
If you want to be an exceptional engineer, then yeah it helps. For many it’s just a regular job they do competently and pay their bills, and they’re happy to pursue other passions in their spare time.
On May 02 2025 01:11 WombaT wrote: You don’t see any contradiction whatsoever in imploring people do do hobbyist programming in their spare time, because the job needs passion, and just refusing to keep on top of trends and experiment with them?
None at all?
i'm not imploring any one to do anything. if one is not passionate about it. don't do it. if you are passionate about crafting software then do exactly that. As the great Samwise Didier said "Always Be Creating".
That is just a textbook imploration though lmao. If you want to be an exceptional engineer, then yeah it helps. For many it’s just a regular job they do competently and pay their bills, and they’re happy to pursue other passions in their spare time.
Who wants to go to a regular job indefinitely while you just "pay their bills" ? ZZZzzzzz..... play it right and you're off the regular job tread mill in under 5 years.
again though, you have to love your craft. if you don't you're better off doing something else.
Linux began in 1991 as a personal project by Finnish student Linus Torvalds to create a new free operating system kernel. The resulting Linux kernel has been marked by constant growth throughout its history. Since the initial release of its source code in 1991,
a major part of the industry's foundation is various personal projects.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7klHDzu.png)
