On August 31 2024 00:32 hexhaven wrote: Well technically no other game that was released on August 23rd this year that was in development for the same amount of time, and with the same budget, and with the same number of people working on it, failed as quickly as Concord, I'll give you that.
On August 29 2024 05:26 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Both No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 also sold well at the start AND made comebacks.
Yeah I guess No Man's Sky is generally well received nowadays, they managed to turn that ship around.
And I almost forgot Anthem was a thing for a bit! Hard to keep up with all these titles, but as CP2077 and NMS show, it's certainly possible.
Fallout 76 is also doing better nowadays, I think?
Fallout 76 is also doing good.
On the topic of games just being unlucky.
Battleborn launched the same month as Overwatch.
Smite 2 has their alpha test next week and Deadlock just lifted their NDA. Sometimes it's just hard.
Being unlucky does happen for sure.
The film Dark City springs to mind. A really stylish film about a world where the populace are being controlled in a false reality, with a saviour character.
Sounds a lot like another film that was a gigantic success right? There are differences and the Matrix had its enjoyable kung fu thing going on, but for whatever reason one bombed and one spawned a multimedia franchise.
Or music is full of these great influential artists and local scene legends inspiring others, only for the second or third wave to be the ones who get that mainstream success.
Happens all the time for sure.
It feels even more marked these days because of F2P megagames, gaming sub services etc. One would think this would make people experiment with more games, and for some that’s true, myself included. But least in my experiences with younger people they tend to play fewer games, but more frequently.
When I was a kid if I’d dropped 40/50 quid on a game unless it was pretty abysmal I’d give it a proper shot as I wouldn’t be getting a new one for a bit. Me and my peers had different platforms with hugely different libraries
Nowadays you’re competing with free stuff, and if a game doesn’t land, or even if it’s good but you can’t convince your mates to play with you, you’ll potentially just return to what you were playing before with them.
On August 31 2024 00:32 hexhaven wrote: Well technically no other game that was released on August 23rd this year that was in development for the same amount of time, and with the same budget, and with the same number of people working on it, failed as quickly as Concord, I'll give you that.
On August 29 2024 05:26 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Both No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 also sold well at the start AND made comebacks.
Yeah I guess No Man's Sky is generally well received nowadays, they managed to turn that ship around.
And I almost forgot Anthem was a thing for a bit! Hard to keep up with all these titles, but as CP2077 and NMS show, it's certainly possible.
Fallout 76 is also doing better nowadays, I think?
Fallout 76 is also doing good.
On the topic of games just being unlucky.
Battleborn launched the same month as Overwatch.
Smite 2 has their alpha test next week and Deadlock just lifted their NDA. Sometimes it's just hard.
Being unlucky does happen for sure.
The film Dark City springs to mind. A really stylish film about a world where the populace are being controlled in a false reality, with a saviour character.
Sounds a lot like another film that was a gigantic success right? There are differences and the Matrix had its enjoyable kung fu thing going on, but for whatever reason one bombed and one spawned a multimedia franchise.
Or music is full of these great influential artists and local scene legends inspiring others, only for the second or third wave to be the ones who get that mainstream success.
Happens all the time for sure.
I remember in the late 90s Dark Reign was supposed to be this next big RTS hit. Good pre-launch word of mouth, bid budget, strong expectations ... and it ended up being completely overshadowed by Total Annihilation. Of course, StarCraft then came out about 6 months later, and we've been on that road ever since.
IGN cranked out a couple of articles covering the Concord low sales and they align with the Forbes writers. As for why it happened: Asmongold and that mainstream/corpo Forbes guy's top 10 align as well. Both the "cottage industry guy" and the "corpo mainstream guy" are providing similar reasons for the very low sales. So, the consensus is in.
Concord experienced historically low sales totals given the resources allocated by one of the biggest video game publishers in the world.
60 people in Concord right now. We need a scoreboard with the user counts for Concord and Stormgate.
Maybe Tim Morten and Tim Campbell have made some mistakes. Tellin' ya. They got nuttin on Firewalk. You want to burn some money... give it to Firewalk.
On August 31 2024 17:39 WombaT wrote: Show us on the doll where Firewalk hurt you Jimmy You seem to be taking an inordinate amount of glee in Concord bombing It’s a totally reasonable quote, it’s why multiplayer games are so popular after all
It is a well crafted quote that tries to get people to associate Firewalk's game with great games of the past. It is comedic due to the end result.
if someone disagrees with my comments i provide rebuttals. if you disagree with the rebuttal you can simply state your case. no need to try to dream up an origin story.
I'll stand by my original comment: The Concord trainwreck is a fascinating case study. Further to that, lots of people find it interesting.
Resources that don’t seem to include marketing, for some reason.
Speaking of consensus, consensus is that Battleborn largely flopped. I think there’s plenty of merit that it gave valuable experience and hell, Battleborn was actually a pretty decent game that flopped. It happens
Probably a better game than Concord for sure
But there’s a generosity you display with all things Gearbox you just don’t extend to other developers. Especially considering Gearbox run their own ship,
On August 08 2024 12:48 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot's declared during the company's Q1 2024 earnings report that Star Wars Outlaws would have the “biggest marketing campaign ever so far for a Ubisoft game”
This is how their marketing dollars are being spent...
Everything the "previewers" say is approved by an agent of Ubisoft. So when people note that 90% of the previews are positive.. it doesn't mean much.
The Star Wars license must be very expensive. So a big marketing budget for a Star Wars game makes sense. This is a big bet by Ubisoft. I think this game is going to bomb relative to Ubisoft's expected ROI.
I think more people will be playing Star Wars Bounty Hunter. The game runs on a potato and is also on the Switch, PS4/5, XBOX1, XBOX SERIES S/X.
I think we're looking at big layoffs at Ubisoft in about 6 months. I think every Canadian Ubisoft employee not located in Quebec should start looking for work ... tout suite.
Always wait for the official release and then another ~ two weeks before buying anything. Gotta say I'm not surprised it has come to this
I'd say wait even longer. Two weeks are still in that initial hype video with lots of paid content and so forth. I'd wait another month or two at the least. That way, you are out of that hype and honeymoon window, and get more accurate information if the game is actually fun long-term, or just flashy for 10 hours before it gets boring.
Ubisoft stated Star Wars Outlaws had their highest advertising budget of any Ubisoft game. 1 Day after release and the game is on sale at GameStop for $63 rather than the announced $70. At Best Buy, you get a $10 gift card with the $70 Star Wars Outlaws game.
The early access people got screwed by a bug that required them to start a brand new character from the very beginning 30 hours into the 3 days of early access.
We need to start a "Save The `Star Wars` Whales" campaign.
I feel bad for people who did not wait. This instant sale price is an indicator sales of the game are not good. I predicted $20 on Black Friday. I might be wrong; it might be $20 before Black Friday.
Earlier someone stated we have no idea how many copies of Concord were sold to Playstation owners. Further speculation was the cottage industry video game coverage people like Asmongold would ignore aspects of a story for the purposes of a sensationalist headline.
Well, the #s are in and they are not good. 1,100 people on the Playstation got the "Kill Your 1st Enemy" trophy.
More and more stories of people taking a long time to find games are surfacing. I listened someone play the game in the background while I was playing another game. The guy spent 70 minutes out of 2 hours of "play time" waiting for games.
On September 01 2024 22:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Earlier someone stated we have no idea how many copies of Concord were sold to Playstation owners. Further speculation was the cottage industry video game coverage people like Asmongold would ignore aspects of a story for the purposes of a sensationalist headline.
Well, the #s are in and they are not good. 1,100 people on the Playstation got the "Kill Your 1st Enemy" trophy.
More and more stories of people taking a long time to find games are surfacing. I listened someone play the game in the background while I was playing another game. The guy spent 70 minutes out of 2 hours of "play time" waiting for games.
All I said was it is responsible reportage to not use incomplete Steam numbers and say that = the player count. Which I have seen. Not everywhere
I said any variation of ‘based on logic/probabiity/other sources, the PlayStation numbers are also likely to be terrible’
Rather than just go ‘hey fair enough’ you’re arguing that the PlayStation numbers are bad, something I already said they likely are!
Firewalk Studios was given $250 million in 2021 to make Concord. LOL. This is pure tragic-comedy. There are more people working at Firewalk than are playing Concord on Steam right now.
Also, to show you how brutal and ruthless the Video Game Industry is: big layoffs at Rock steady Games makers of Suicide Squad. It is brutal and ruthless because the layoffs occur on LABOUR DAY.
Is this an intentional FUCK YOU statement to the very small % of unionized workers? Either way it is out of line to execute layoffs on labour day.
It is interesting to compare/contrast GamesIndustry.biz top editor guy Chris Dring's predictions about sales of Star Wars Outlaws versus Asmongold's analysis and prediction style.
I think Asmongold provides more and better business insights than the "connected" top editor guy at GamesIndustry.biz.
I think Star Wars Outlaws is in deep trouble; I say Ubisoft will obfuscate sales #s as much as possible by blurring the lines between their monthly subscription service and sales of the game. We are not going to get a BM:W super simple announcement of "10 million units sold".... or a Diablo4 "666 million in revenue." We'll get a confusing word salad when Ubi discusses SW:O sales.
Regarding Ubisoft's big decline these past 5 years on the stock market I'd like to comment on it by using a quote of that famous intellectual of the 20th century Yogi Berra. "It gets late early out there."
I'm absolutely going to buy and play Outlaws. In a year or two after the bugs have been fixed and it's 75% off.
I think this is a big "problem" for AAA single player games. There are so many good games today that unless you want to play the latest multiplayer fad then there is no rush to buy something when it comes out. Unless your game is a slam dunk so people cannot wait to play it (looking at you BG3) just play something else and wait. You'll get a better game at a lower price.
My backlogg on steam is growing constantly anyways.
I was very surprised EA let the technical problems remain in Jedi Survivor. Fallen Order was so nicely executed and I thought Disney would not tolerate crippling tech issues in one of their Star Wars games.
Perhaps after Disney took away EA's exclusivity then EA decided to let Jedi Survivor twist in the wind? Its a shame because Jedi Survivor is a super solid game if you can get around the crippling tech issues.
On September 03 2024 01:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: …. Also, to show you how brutal and ruthless the Video Game Industry is: big layoffs at Rock steady Games makers of Suicide Squad. It is brutal and ruthless because the layoffs occur on LABOUR DAY.
Is this an intentional FUCK YOU statement to the very small % of unionized workers? Either way it is out of line to execute layoffs on labour day.
It’s certainly competitive, as to how brutal and ruthless it is seems quite dependent where in the chain you reside.
The battlefield is strewn with many a studio corpse, or the bodies from another round of layoffs
Hopefully the Labor Day timing is just coincidental as that would be pretty shitty indeed. That said, I mean I’d be not much more pissed or disappointed being laid off that day than any other. What’s wrong with May Day like many of the rest of us celebrate anyway?
On September 03 2024 23:17 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I'm absolutely going to buy and play Outlaws. In a year or two after the bugs have been fixed and it's 75% off.
I think this is a big "problem" for AAA single player games. There are so many good games today that unless you want to play the latest multiplayer fad then there is no rush to buy something when it comes out. Unless your game is a slam dunk so people cannot wait to play it (looking at you BG3) just play something else and wait. You'll get a better game at a lower price.
My backlogg on steam is growing constantly anyways.
Indeed, doubly so once you factor in F2P being a thing, and sub services like Game Pass and its PlayStation equivalent.
Unless I get laid off and can return to something approach my childhood/teenage levels of time investment I’m not even close to clearing my top category of games I really, really want to play. Much less the quite interested, or ‘this isn’t my usual type of game, but I’ve heard good things and want to mix it up a bit’ one
On September 03 2024 01:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: …. Also, to show you how brutal and ruthless the Video Game Industry is: big layoffs at Rock steady Games makers of Suicide Squad. It is brutal and ruthless because the layoffs occur on LABOUR DAY.
Is this an intentional FUCK YOU statement to the very small % of unionized workers? Either way it is out of line to execute layoffs on labour day.
It’s certainly competitive, as to how brutal and ruthless it is seems quite dependent where in the chain you reside.
The battlefield is strewn with many a studio corpse, or the bodies from another round of layoffs
Hopefully the Labor Day timing is just coincidental as that would be pretty shitty indeed. That said, I mean I’d be not much more pissed or disappointed being laid off that day than any other. What’s wrong with May Day like many of the rest of us celebrate anyway?
On September 03 2024 23:17 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I'm absolutely going to buy and play Outlaws. In a year or two after the bugs have been fixed and it's 75% off.
I think this is a big "problem" for AAA single player games. There are so many good games today that unless you want to play the latest multiplayer fad then there is no rush to buy something when it comes out. Unless your game is a slam dunk so people cannot wait to play it (looking at you BG3) just play something else and wait. You'll get a better game at a lower price.
My backlogg on steam is growing constantly anyways.
Indeed, doubly so once you factor in F2P being a thing, and sub services like Game Pass and its PlayStation equivalent.
Unless I get laid off and can return to something approach my childhood/teenage levels of time investment I’m not even close to clearing my top category of games I really, really want to play. Much less the quite interested, or ‘this isn’t my usual type of game, but I’ve heard good things and want to mix it up a bit’ one
Another thing to consider there is the massive amount of open world games that are in most people's single player top lists to play. Each one is 100h+. You can do 10 other games in the same time and that is honestly something more interesting for me.
Even a title such as BG3 I enjoyed act 1. 2 became a bit too much of the same and I actually havn't more than started act 3 ages ago.
Though to be honest the multi player titles is the biggest drain. 10k hours in a single one of them would be 100 open world games when I complain about their length.
Some are comparing the failure of Concord to the level of failure of Atari 2600 E.T.: The extraterrestrial. There are a few similarities. However, the extremely short development time for ET guaranteed a poor game. And, indeed, compared to many really good Activision 1982 games ... ET is very bad. However, the game sold 2.6 million units in late '82 and early '83. It was not a commercial failure. The problem is Atari made as many ET cartridges as Atari 2600 console units.
Back in that era a game could be bad, however, if it had good name brand recognition it could sell. Also, in late 1982, and early 1983 Reagan-omics was rocking and the NA economy was booming. The video game industry was growing at its fastest pace in history. Today, the economy is meh and the video game industry growth has slowed to a snail's pace.
Ray Kassar gave a single developer ~30 days to make E.T. In that era a really good video game took 6+ months to develop. Many really good games took a year to make.
To compare ET just check out any Activision game from 1982. ET is a technical failure yet it sold 2.6 million copies.
So, Concord is a failure far more than ET The Extra Terrestrial. Concord is on another level. The studio was given forever to make the game. Concord sold extemely poorly. The single ET developer had 30 days to make ET.
Ray Kassar destroyed the #1 game company at the peak of its success as the video game industry was growing by leaps and bounds in a booming 1983 NA economy. He is the #1 ultimate failure in the history of the video game industry.
On September 03 2024 23:17 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I think this is a big "problem" for AAA single player games. There are so many good games today that unless you want to play the latest multiplayer fad then there is no rush to buy something when it comes out. Unless your game is a slam dunk so people cannot wait to play it (looking at you BG3) just play something else and wait. You'll get a better game at a lower price.
Black Myth Wukong did well despite IGN and its corpo cabal trying to wreck its maker Game Science. When these corpo media outlets claim they love the developers of games.. its just a distraction.
Really great games will almost always do well. Sometimes an arguably only "good" game will also do really well.
My point is more that there are many perfectly adequate games that launch to a pretty "meh" reception because the average gamer just has to much to choose from. Also the insane upgrade cost of hardware and already generally great graphics means that at least for me the difference between a new game and a couple of years old game is not particularly noticeable.
It's not like when you went from doom - quake - quake 2 - unreal etc.
You need a well crafted game and luck to hit it out of the park. Making something "alright" and getting a bit unlucky is not going to cut it, especially in multiplayer games.
It's not like the old days when people would buy it just for the fresh new game feel because there are 10 new things to choose from (and for single player 100x more).
On September 05 2024 00:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: My point is more that there are many perfectly adequate games that launch to a pretty "meh" reception because the average gamer just has to much to choose from. Also the insane upgrade cost of hardware and already generally great graphics means that at least for me the difference between a new game and a couple of years old game is not particularly noticeable.
This is a great point. Graphics are not improving the way they did in decades past. You end up with the Switch living forever.
On September 05 2024 00:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Really great games will almost always do well. Sometimes an arguably only "good" game will also do really well.
My point is more that there are many perfectly adequate games that launch to a pretty "meh" reception because the average gamer just has to much to choose from. Also the insane upgrade cost of hardware and already generally great graphics means that at least for me the difference between a new game and a couple of years old game is not particularly noticeable.
It's not like when you went from doom - quake - quake 2 - unreal etc.
You need a well crafted game and luck to hit it out of the park. Making something "alright" and getting a bit unlucky is not going to cut it, especially in multiplayer games.
It's not like the old days when people would buy it just for the fresh new game feel because there are 10 new things to choose from (and for single player 100x more).
Aye that’s why I get so frustrated with the whole ‘x game didn’t do as well as expected, dead franchise/studio closed’ cycle, especially when it’s often the publisher to blame for the former.
I was never a big graphics fiend, I know some people are but for me there’s really not a huge difference between a mid-2010s game and now. Whereas the difference between say, 1996 when I first regularly started playing games, and 2006 is a gigantic one.
Given I was sinking most of my gaming time into SC2 and a few others for a bunch of years in that period, that leaves me with a hell of a lot of top drawer games that look absolutely fine to me, that I haven’t even got round to touching.
People complain a lot about aspects of the industry and its practices but it’s a hell of a time to be a gamer in a bunch of ways too.
On September 05 2024 05:06 WombaT wrote: People complain a lot about aspects of the industry and its practices but it’s a hell of a time to be a gamer in a bunch of ways too.
the industry has been pretty scummy since the 70s. its same old , same old. Crunch, severely underpaid creators, giant corps defying laws and court decisions while making up their own rules... etc that's been going on forever.
For a street smart consumer video games are the best they've ever been in history. Though, you have to be a prudent, patient consumer to take full advantage of the current situation.
EPT
