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On December 08 2018 03:59 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 03:47 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2018 03:39 Gorsameth wrote:On December 08 2018 03:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
I don't pop in here as much as I should. What happened to the right-wingers like uh... Danglars and those other guys (I'm drawing a blank on names)? I haven't seen any of their ridiculousness lately. Bunch of em got thread banned. I believe they now reside in a blog by GreenHorizons (who is also thread banned). To clarify this further, some of them got thread banned after several chances and others just moved on. And a lot of the center left and left leaning posters became less tolerant of argument they felt were in bad faith. To be fair its pretty shitty to be a right leaning poster trying to argue in good faith at the moment.
I don't disagree. But you have had the good sense to bow out and accept the Republicans are doing a terrible job creating durable change folks in the right could be proud of. Not to read into your personal feelings to much, but as someone with political views that lean more to the right, you have never seen criticism right wing politicians as an attack on you personally. You don't take people dumping on Trump as an attack on you.
Other posters do. Both on the right and left. Those folks have made their political views such a core part of their identity that any criticism of those politics is seen as an attack on them. They have bought into the political rhetoric that their "culture" is under attack, which is a great way to get people to vote defensively.
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On December 08 2018 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 03:59 Sermokala wrote:On December 08 2018 03:47 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2018 03:39 Gorsameth wrote:On December 08 2018 03:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
I don't pop in here as much as I should. What happened to the right-wingers like uh... Danglars and those other guys (I'm drawing a blank on names)? I haven't seen any of their ridiculousness lately. Bunch of em got thread banned. I believe they now reside in a blog by GreenHorizons (who is also thread banned). To clarify this further, some of them got thread banned after several chances and others just moved on. And a lot of the center left and left leaning posters became less tolerant of argument they felt were in bad faith. To be fair its pretty shitty to be a right leaning poster trying to argue in good faith at the moment. Other posters do. Both on the right and left. Those folks have made their political views such a core part of their identity that any criticism of those politics is seen as an attack on them. They have bought into the political rhetoric that their "culture" is under attack, which is a great way to get people to vote defensively.
I'm sympathetic to the idea that the capacity to have your political views distinct from your identity is a privileged position. It tells me both that those political ideas are close enough to the norm that they don't really raise a flag for anyone, and that your identity is close enough to the norm that it hasn't been politicized for you.
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On December 08 2018 04:15 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 04:10 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2018 03:59 Sermokala wrote:On December 08 2018 03:47 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2018 03:39 Gorsameth wrote:On December 08 2018 03:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
I don't pop in here as much as I should. What happened to the right-wingers like uh... Danglars and those other guys (I'm drawing a blank on names)? I haven't seen any of their ridiculousness lately. Bunch of em got thread banned. I believe they now reside in a blog by GreenHorizons (who is also thread banned). To clarify this further, some of them got thread banned after several chances and others just moved on. And a lot of the center left and left leaning posters became less tolerant of argument they felt were in bad faith. To be fair its pretty shitty to be a right leaning poster trying to argue in good faith at the moment. Other posters do. Both on the right and left. Those folks have made their political views such a core part of their identity that any criticism of those politics is seen as an attack on them. They have bought into the political rhetoric that their "culture" is under attack, which is a great way to get people to vote defensively. I'm sympathetic to the idea that the capacity to have your political views distinct from your identity is a privileged position. It tells me both that those political ideas are close enough to the norm that they don't really raise a flag for anyone, and that your identity is close enough to the norm that it hasn't been politicized for you.
Being able to ignore politics is privilege because it means that the your social position is so durable that you won't be impacted in any significant way. But in this instance, I am referencing seeing a political party as part of your cultural identity. Or as the defender of that culture though the power of government. And that any attack on that political party and their actions is an attack you as a person. A complete lack of awareness of the impact the policies be proposed, only that those policies "support" your cultural identity.
I think the self described centrist are guilty of this, though in a less aggressive manner. Centrists view their political view of being in the middle of two extremes as meritorious. That they occupy a position that allows them to see the merits and flaws of all arguments, while being able to pick and choose which have the most desirable outcome. There is a completely failure to engage with the idea that by being unwilling to push policy to one extreme or the other, they are simply defending the status quo. Which means that any flaws with the systems continue to be flawed. But when this topic is brought up, centrist either deflect or see critique of their political viewpoint as a direct attack on them. I know this because for a long time I was guilty of this exact view point.
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On December 08 2018 03:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
They got the safe space they wanted. Curiously though, they are, for the most part, better behaved in the blog thread. If only they can be as reasonable as they are now in the other thread, would none of them had gotten repeatedly banned. or maybe nobody reports their posts anymore.
There's too much bad blood between posters here and with them. It would never work.
Also, for all they might claim otherwise a lot of their content is entirely partisan hackery that comes down to 'Dems are the worst, Republicans never do anything wrong ever', which I'm content with because I can see through it, GH agrees with because he hates the Democrats, and Plansix is I think in the same boat as me.
I mean, one of the more recent ongoing discussions is about Uranium One and how Hilary has never been properly investigated, and not too long ago there was a whole page talking about how the Republicans don't play identity politics but those evil Dems play nothing else (and to be fair the Democrats do play identity politics, but it's pretty obvious that Republicans do as well).
Zero chance that'd stand for more than a post and a half in here. They think they post far higher quality posts than they actually do. Especially Danglars.
On December 08 2018 04:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 04:15 Nebuchad wrote:On December 08 2018 04:10 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2018 03:59 Sermokala wrote:On December 08 2018 03:47 Plansix wrote:On December 08 2018 03:39 Gorsameth wrote:On December 08 2018 03:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
I don't pop in here as much as I should. What happened to the right-wingers like uh... Danglars and those other guys (I'm drawing a blank on names)? I haven't seen any of their ridiculousness lately. Bunch of em got thread banned. I believe they now reside in a blog by GreenHorizons (who is also thread banned). To clarify this further, some of them got thread banned after several chances and others just moved on. And a lot of the center left and left leaning posters became less tolerant of argument they felt were in bad faith. To be fair its pretty shitty to be a right leaning poster trying to argue in good faith at the moment. Other posters do. Both on the right and left. Those folks have made their political views such a core part of their identity that any criticism of those politics is seen as an attack on them. They have bought into the political rhetoric that their "culture" is under attack, which is a great way to get people to vote defensively. I'm sympathetic to the idea that the capacity to have your political views distinct from your identity is a privileged position. It tells me both that those political ideas are close enough to the norm that they don't really raise a flag for anyone, and that your identity is close enough to the norm that it hasn't been politicized for you. Being able to ignore politics is privilege because it means that the your social position is so durable that you won't be impacted in any significant way. But in this instance, I am referencing seeing a political party as part of your cultural identity. Or as the defender of that culture though the power of government. And that any attack on that political party and their actions is an attack you as a person. A complete lack of awareness of the impact the policies be proposed, only that those policies "support" your cultural identity. I think the self described centrist are guilty of this, though in a less aggressive manner. Centrists view their political view of being in the middle of two extremes as meritorious. That they occupy a position that allows them to see the merits and flaws of all arguments, while being able to pick and choose which have the most desirable outcome. There is a completely failure to engage with the idea that by being unwilling to push policy to one extreme or the other, they are simply defending the status quo. Which means that any flaws with the systems continue to be flawed. But when this topic is brought up, centrist either deflect or see critique of their political viewpoint as a direct attack on them. I know this because for a long time I was guilty of this exact view point.
I consider myself a centrist who doesn't fall into that problem. But I'm mostly a centrist because my views don't line up neatly with any party, and I think both are regularly full of shit (obviously, talking Conservatives and Labour here rather than GOP/Dems; on the US scale I'm a lunatic screaming-at-clouds leftie).
I hold views that piss off a lot of people who are hard left in the UK, but I don't like much of the Conservative platform. I'm a monarchist (lefties in the UK are mostly anti-monarchy) and in some ways a traditionalist but I'm also very pro LGBT and pro-EU. So it puts me roughly in the centre. Centre-left.
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And we have managed to avoid the super painful discussion about racism in the US for almost 6 months, which is a huge boost to everyone’s life. And I only have to explain how congress works every couple of months, as opposed to once a week.
Also if anyone wants to see a good left wing politician working the system, watch Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She recently dumped on the Democrats for not paying their interns(which is bullshit, those kids should be paid) and is gunning for a seat on the Ways and Means Committee(a very powerful committee in the House). She is showing folks int eh left wing how to take their drive and channel it into durable political change. And she is fearless and not afraid to of being attacked on Fox News. She is what the left needs to get a solid foot hold in the House and drive the conversation, rather than focusing on beating centrists democrats in the mid west and West Virginia.
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On December 08 2018 03:56 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 01:53 IyMoon wrote:
Over under on 2pm EST Muller report drop? I hereby bet you 8.6m it will be after 1pm PST
Sounds like you have insider info
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On December 08 2018 05:34 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 05:23 IyMoon wrote:On December 08 2018 03:56 Mohdoo wrote:On December 08 2018 01:53 IyMoon wrote:
Over under on 2pm EST Muller report drop? I hereby bet you 8.6m it will be after 1pm PST Sounds like you have insider info He does, a clock! That sneaky bastard. I hope this news drops soon i dont want to wait till monday
1 hour , 22 min before it drops. My guess is they do it at 5 EST
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Considering this tweet below, "Trump disliked Tillerson" sounds like a huge understatement.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I know folks are having fun, but question for ya’ all:
Why would Mueller file his report with a lamb duck session of congress?
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On December 08 2018 05:52 Plansix wrote:
I know folks are having fun, but question for ya’ all:
Why would Mueller file his report with a lamb duck session of congress?
So you think the final report comes out after dems take the house?
Makes sense
My real question is why he is waiting until 5pm est to release the memos today
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United States44171 Posts
On December 08 2018 05:40 Sent. wrote:Considering this tweet below, "Trump disliked Tillerson" sounds like a huge understatement. + Show Spoiler +
This is just sad.
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On December 08 2018 05:54 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2018 05:52 Plansix wrote:
I know folks are having fun, but question for ya’ all:
Why would Mueller file his report with a lamb duck session of congress? So you think the final report comes out after dems take the house? Makes sense My real question is why he is waiting until 5pm est to release the memos today
Because memo’s that are filed with the court in person, with notice to the other party. Once the court dockets them, they are then public. They don’t give copies to the press. The press obtains the copies and give releases them to the public.
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Breaking news on the Cohen report says it recommends "significant jail time!" Perhaps Mueller doesn't feel like be needs Cohen to get what he wants. Or, perhaps Mueller has so much dirt on him that this is actually him getting off lightly. Cohen has been relatively cooperative so maybe its the latter
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On December 08 2018 07:03 On_Slaught wrote:
Breaking news on the Cohen report says it recommends "significant jail time!" Perhaps Mueller doesn't feel like be needs Cohen to get what he wants. Or, perhaps Mueller has so much dirt on him that this is actually him getting off lightly. Cohen has been relatively cooperative so maybe its the latter
Cohen getting 4 years is already going really easy. Only 4 years, to me, implies he helped out a lot.
Looks like it is at least 100% confirmed that individual 1 is indeed Trump:
Give me my Manafort info!!!!!!!!!
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The ending is absolutely amazing:![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Vjvytiu.png)
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So... where's the Manafort stuff?
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I don't know why people are so into these sentencing memo. They are normally pretty dull.
Now that Manafort memo should have some juice.
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EPT
