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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On November 29 2018 16:37 ReditusSum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2018 06:38 Plansix wrote:
The agreement they entered with the prosecutor did not include them leaking information about the investigation to the people being investigated. That is very very bad. The fact that Trump's team took that information is slightly less dumb, but not smart at all. As far as I am aware, it has never been confirmed that Trump is under investigation. The assumption is that he is really under investigation, but I'm pretty sure that is still just the unofficial reality but not the official reality. The theory I am hearing from conservatives is that Mueller wanted Manafort to lie about the Trump tower meeting, basically fabricate testimony so they could pursue a case against Don Jr. but instead Manafort's lawyers shared this information with Trump's team (that Mueller was pressuring him to fabricate testimony). This seems plausible given the fact that a federal judge has already accused Mueller of doing just that and almost every target of his investigation has said the same thing: that he is pressuring them to fabricate testimony. Also this was (is?) typical for the Justice Dept as we saw with the Ted Stevens case and the Enron case. As far as the "lies" go, this is that Manafort allegedly met with Assange? But we've learned that the FBI was surveilling him as far back as 2013... so how would they not know whether he met Assange or not? How could they suddenly "learn" that he met with Assange when they apparently started watching him 3 years before he met with Assange? So was the "met with wikileaks" thing a perjury trap, or just a straight-up lie by the Mueller team leaked to the media to try to scare Manafort into playing ball? It seems obvious what is going on: A Russian working with the same firm that Clinton hired tried to set Donald Jr. up with a honey-pot meeting, but Don Jr and team didn't take the bait; so now they need Manafort to fabricate testimony and claim there was some kind of pay-to-play (concerning the Magninsky act). It goes back to the theory (one I tend to find the most credible) that Mueller is really just a clean-up operation trying to distract everyone from the massive (and highly unethical and potentially illegal) spying operation the Obama admin and Justice Dept. (and probably British intelligence) set up against a rival political campaign.
Yeah, why should we take Mueller's own word for it. What does he know about what he's investigating after all?
Theory != Hypothesis. What you have is a hypothesis, because you have little to no evidence for it other than a vague idea of how you'd like things to be. Since this has nothing to do with science, the rest of us likes to use the phrase "Conspiracy theory".
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On November 29 2018 16:37 ReditusSum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2018 06:38 Plansix wrote:
The agreement they entered with the prosecutor did not include them leaking information about the investigation to the people being investigated. That is very very bad. The fact that Trump's team took that information is slightly less dumb, but not smart at all. As far as I am aware, it has never been confirmed that Trump is under investigation. The assumption is that he is really under investigation, but I'm pretty sure that is still just the unofficial reality but not the official reality. The theory I am hearing from conservatives is that Mueller wanted Manafort to lie about the Trump tower meeting, basically fabricate testimony so they could pursue a case against Don Jr. but instead Manafort's lawyers shared this information with Trump's team (that Mueller was pressuring him to fabricate testimony). This seems plausible given the fact that a federal judge has already accused Mueller of doing just that and almost every target of his investigation has said the same thing: that he is pressuring them to fabricate testimony. Also this was (is?) typical for the Justice Dept as we saw with the Ted Stevens case and the Enron case. As far as the "lies" go, this is that Manafort allegedly met with Assange? But we've learned that the FBI was surveilling him as far back as 2013... so how would they not know whether he met Assange or not? How could they suddenly "learn" that he met with Assange when they apparently started watching him 3 years before he met with Assange? So was the "met with wikileaks" thing a perjury trap, or just a straight-up lie by the Mueller team leaked to the media to try to scare Manafort into playing ball? It seems obvious what is going on: A Russian working with the same firm that Clinton hired tried to set Donald Jr. up with a honey-pot meeting, but Don Jr and team didn't take the bait; so now they need Manafort to fabricate testimony and claim there was some kind of pay-to-play (concerning the Magninsky act). It goes back to the theory (one I tend to find the most credible) that Mueller is really just a clean-up operation trying to distract everyone from the massive (and highly unethical and potentially illegal) spying operation the Obama admin and Justice Dept. (and probably British intelligence) set up against a rival political campaign. I'm going to make a bold claim and say you can't source ANY of that outside of conspiracy theory sites.
The meeting between Don, Jr. That they admitted happened, in which they talked about dirt on Hillary, which they admitted happened, which had representatives of the Russian government, which the Intelligence agencies confirmed, was a bait by Clinton?
What a weird alternative reality you live in.
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A Russian working with the same firm that Clinton hired tried to set Donald Jr. up with a honey-pot meeting, but Don Jr and team didn't take the bait; so now they need Manafort to fabricate testimony and claim there was some kind of pay-to-play (concerning the Magninsky act). It goes back to the theory (one I tend to find the most credible) that Mueller is really just a clean-up operation trying to distract everyone from the massive (and highly unethical and potentially illegal) spying operation the Obama admin and Justice Dept. (and probably British intelligence) set up against a rival political campaign.
.. Alex, is that you?
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What did I just read? No need to take reditusun seriously any longer.
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On November 29 2018 20:32 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +A Russian working with the same firm that Clinton hired tried to set Donald Jr. up with a honey-pot meeting, but Don Jr and team didn't take the bait; so now they need Manafort to fabricate testimony and claim there was some kind of pay-to-play (concerning the Magninsky act). It goes back to the theory (one I tend to find the most credible) that Mueller is really just a clean-up operation trying to distract everyone from the massive (and highly unethical and potentially illegal) spying operation the Obama admin and Justice Dept. (and probably British intelligence) set up against a rival political campaign.
.. Alex, is that you?
Needs more lizard people, pizzagates, and Thanks Obamas. But in all seriousness, I would love to see some sources for that set of conspiracies that ReditusSum wrote, especially since much of it conflicts with even what the Trump crew has admitted.
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United States43557 Posts
By “didn’t take the bait” do you mean “said ‘If it’s what you say, I love it, especially later in the summer’ and then took it”? Because those are the facts.
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Actually I just want to apologise and say I was a bit mean spirited, but in the end a substantial proportion of the US electorate believe what reditusun just wrote, or near enough variants to it. It's pointless to ask for a source becuase as many of us has read before, it would only lead to accusations of deepstate and bias by traditional (journalistic integrity) media. It seems totally bizarre to us, but he probably gets his news from fox, reddit and 4chan and views those sources as the truth and everything else as lies. it's sad, but that's what the US pol thread has showed me.
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United States43557 Posts
We literally have the emails where Don Jr. takes the bait and a confession from the man himself. The best case scenario for Don Jr., and the one he is currently saying is true, is that he tried to accept Russian state aid and failed. That’s his defence. That he was stupid enough to try and collude but it was too difficult.
This is as strange as a 9/11 conspiracy theory that questions whether the towers were actually destroyed. It’s not just filling in the blanks creatively, it’s going back to the basic agreed facts of the event and changing them.
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That said it wouldn't actually suprise me if a major terrorist attack occured under Trumps presidency similar in scale to 9/11 and Trump just flat out denies it happened. Afterall this is a man who who happily tell people that death figures from failing to respond to natural disasters were made up to make himself look better. And people believe him.
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if trump hasn’t used the phrase ‘crisis actors’ i would honestly be astonished, and it would even change my perception of him for the better just a little bit.
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On November 29 2018 22:27 KwarK wrote:
We literally have the emails where Don Jr. takes the bait and a confession from the man himself. The best case scenario for Don Jr., and the one he is currently saying is true, is that he tried to accept Russian state aid and failed. That’s his defence. That he was stupid enough to try and collude but it was too difficult.
This is as strange as a 9/11 conspiracy theory that questions whether the towers were actually destroyed. It’s not just filling in the blanks creatively, it’s going back to the basic agreed facts of the event and changing them.
That's the entire modus operandi of Trump and his team though. It's the denial of real facts and the introduction of complete nonsense marketed as "alternative facts". He invented an alternate universe where he had a big inauguration crowd and he's the smartest and greatest and bigliest and has all the best words, and his supporters believe they live in that universe. They don't realize that universe is imaginary. Who's to say if the twin towers are destroyed in that universe? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump claimed he built them himself, during the little downtime he had between saving kittens, killing Hitler, and picking himself up by his own bootstraps with no help or money from his father.
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“I’m doing deals, and I’m not being accommodated by the Fed,” Trump told the Post. “They’re making a mistake because I have a gut, and my gut tells me more sometimes than anybody else’s brain can ever tell me.”
That's why he ran so many brands/casinos etc into the ground is such a great businessman. Comes from the great genes.
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I dunno, it feels like the perfect quote to put on the wall of Trump's memorial years from now. Right next to the quotes "Grab her by the pussy" and "We have some bad hombres here."
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There are also reports that Steven Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary, tried to stop the Fed from raising interest rates, which would have ended anyone's career prior to Trump. But Trump and his anti-goverment administration are just trying to take us back to 1920's crony capitalism speed run style.
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To be fair he said he was his own primary consultant before he even became president in march 2016. Still got elected:
Asked on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” who he talks with consistently about foreign policy, Trump responded, “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things."
"I know what I’m doing and I listen to a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people and at the appropriate time I’ll tell you who the people are," Trump said. “But my primary consultant is myself and I have a good instinct for this stuff."
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On November 30 2018 00:38 Plansix wrote:
There are also reports that Steven Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary, tried to stop the Fed from raising interest rates, which would have ended anyone's career prior to Trump. But Trump and his anti-goverment administration are just trying to take us back to 1920's crony capitalism speed run style.
I am waiting to live in that era, Old Sport. Don't you dare try and stop this from happening, I say!
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On November 29 2018 16:37 ReditusSum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2018 06:38 Plansix wrote:
The agreement they entered with the prosecutor did not include them leaking information about the investigation to the people being investigated. That is very very bad. The fact that Trump's team took that information is slightly less dumb, but not smart at all. As far as I am aware, it has never been confirmed that Trump is under investigation. The assumption is that he is really under investigation, but I'm pretty sure that is still just the unofficial reality but not the official reality. The theory I am hearing from conservatives is that Mueller wanted Manafort to lie about the Trump tower meeting, basically fabricate testimony so they could pursue a case against Don Jr. but instead Manafort's lawyers shared this information with Trump's team (that Mueller was pressuring him to fabricate testimony). This seems plausible given the fact that a federal judge has already accused Mueller of doing just that and almost every target of his investigation has said the same thing: that he is pressuring them to fabricate testimony. Also this was (is?) typical for the Justice Dept as we saw with the Ted Stevens case and the Enron case. As far as the "lies" go, this is that Manafort allegedly met with Assange? But we've learned that the FBI was surveilling him as far back as 2013... so how would they not know whether he met Assange or not? How could they suddenly "learn" that he met with Assange when they apparently started watching him 3 years before he met with Assange? So was the "met with wikileaks" thing a perjury trap, or just a straight-up lie by the Mueller team leaked to the media to try to scare Manafort into playing ball? It seems obvious what is going on: A Russian working with the same firm that Clinton hired tried to set Donald Jr. up with a honey-pot meeting, but Don Jr and team didn't take the bait; so now they need Manafort to fabricate testimony and claim there was some kind of pay-to-play (concerning the Magninsky act). It goes back to the theory (one I tend to find the most credible) that Mueller is really just a clean-up operation trying to distract everyone from the massive (and highly unethical and potentially illegal) spying operation the Obama admin and Justice Dept. (and probably British intelligence) set up against a rival political campaign.
Dude, if Manafort was pressured to fabricate testimony by Mueller, Trump would have tweeted that Mueller was corrupt by now.
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On November 30 2018 00:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 00:38 Plansix wrote:
There are also reports that Steven Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary, tried to stop the Fed from raising interest rates, which would have ended anyone's career prior to Trump. But Trump and his anti-goverment administration are just trying to take us back to 1920's crony capitalism speed run style. I am waiting to live in that era, Old Sport. Don't you dare try and stop this from happening, I say!
Are you ready to watch the economy choke on protectionist tariffs and the corpses of poorly regulated banks? Are you ready for conservative politicians to rally behind bringing back the good old days while blaming globalists and foreigners for the state of the economy? Are you ready for some new hyper conservative political party to emerge calling themselves the New Founding Fathers without any irony? Are you ready for them to promise to bring back the natural order?
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On November 30 2018 00:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 00:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On November 30 2018 00:38 Plansix wrote:
There are also reports that Steven Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary, tried to stop the Fed from raising interest rates, which would have ended anyone's career prior to Trump. But Trump and his anti-goverment administration are just trying to take us back to 1920's crony capitalism speed run style. I am waiting to live in that era, Old Sport. Don't you dare try and stop this from happening, I say! Are you ready to watch the economy choke on protectionist tariffs and the corpses of poorly regulated banks? Are you ready for conservative politicians to rally behind bringing back the good old days while blaming globalists and foreigners for the state of the economy? Are you ready for some new hyper conservative political party to emerge calling themselves the New Founding Fathers without any irony? Are you ready for them to promise to bring back the natural order?
If I can party like Gatsby and call people Old Sport....yep!
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EPT
