EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 694
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10917 Posts
| ||
|
Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On September 14 2018 06:04 Sbrubbles wrote: The only thing I'm curious of is how the author on one hand and Poles (in general) on the other are reacting to this possibility. The books have a cultural significance to them, so it follows that their opininons should matter. The Author is being very vague about it. He says that there are different skin colored people all around the world. The games are not entirely cannon to the books and the TV series is being said to be closer to the books. I mean the implications is that the TV series are black people who have formed themselves an sprawling empire, with at least a french province, and set out to conquer the white people. This story ofc being from the perspective of the white man as he saves the world and finds the time to be the better father to the black peoples princess. I mean if thats what they want the story to be but its a bizarre idea to consider that to be a positive step for diversity. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18356 Posts
On September 14 2018 06:48 Sermokala wrote: The Author is being very vague about it. He says that there are different skin colored people all around the world. The games are not entirely cannon to the books and the TV series is being said to be closer to the books. I mean the implications is that the TV series are black people who have formed themselves an sprawling empire with at least a french province, and set out to conquer the white people. This story ofc being from the perspective of the white man as he saves the world and finds the time to be the better father to the black peoples princess. I mean if thats what they want the story to be but its a bizarre idea to consider that to be a positive step for diversity. The whole thing is doomed anyway. They cast Henry Cavill as Geralt. | ||
|
On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Can any prison sentence assigned as part of a plea deal be pardoned? I assume yes. Source: | ||
|
Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On September 14 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: I always get weirded out by fantasy series with humanoids that are all one skin color that just happens to be white. I get that its all magic and authors can make it whatever they want, but entire races that are kinda close to humans but are all Caucasian just because seems like weird choice for an author. Unless the world lacks a sun, then it sort of makes sense. I think the bigger issue is that if you make elves too physically different than the in universe status quo human race but close to a real world ethnicity, it looks like you're making a point on ethnicity even if you didn't mean to, especially if you attribute specific social/personality characteristics to them not present in the human characters. You can't have elves be a new, different, race from a real world one if they share defining physical characteristics with one of them. Or, rather, you can but your audience might not buy it. | ||
|
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On September 14 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: I always get weirded out by fantasy series with humanoids that are all one skin color that just happens to be white. I get that its all magic and authors can make it whatever they want, but entire races that are kinda close to humans but are all Caucasian just because seems like weird choice for an author. Unless the world lacks a sun, then it sort of makes sense. Most classic fantasy tend to be analogues for Europe, especially medieval Europe. And most of them also draw heavily from mid 20th century European authors that basically set the stage for the fantasy genre (Tolkein in particular). Plus everyone knows classic fantasy = British accents, and everyone being white is largely what happens with the British accent casting pool. Especially in a series where birthright and lineage are plot relevant details, and not like Thor where you can have random Idris Elba. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11920 Posts
On September 14 2018 06:23 Excludos wrote: Let me stop you right there: You don't. By your answer you haven't read any of them. In the spirit of responding with shitty oneliners: I reread them, and you don't seem to have any points but the ones i addressed. Oh, and i guess the amazing genius detailed argument of "the lore doesn't allow it". Which i guess is countered by "the lore allows it", and then leads to the great intellectual exchange of "does not!" "does too!" | ||
|
Excludos
Norway8267 Posts
On September 14 2018 07:37 Simberto wrote: In the spirit of responding with shitty oneliners: I reread them, and you don't seem to have any points but the ones i addressed. Oh, and i guess the amazing genius detailed argument of "the lore doesn't allow it". Which i guess is countered by "the lore allows it", and then leads to the great intellectual exchange of "does not!" "does too!" "the lore doesn't allow it" wasn't just something I threw on, it was my entire argument, once again proving you never read the posts previous to now. The current lore of the books and games just straight up doesn't allow it. The Princess of a Northern/Polish medieval kingdom with elven blood in her veins isn't going to casually and randomly be black. There's just no way the audience is going to accept that, because even a fantasy show needs to have some kind of internal logic for people to get immersed. You can't just have random things for the sake of having them. There needs to be reason and structure. The question is whether it's ok to change the lore to account for changing Ciri's skin color. In my eyes, if that's the reason alone, the answer is no. Changing lore just for the sake of diversity and nothing else doesn't improve the end result, and ends up alienating those who are familiar with the series to begin with. Besides, if you're going to change large portions of the lore, then really why not make it its own product? Why have it be the Witcher series when it could be any other fantasy series the director rather wants to be making? Don't get me wrong, television and books are widely different formats. A lot of things are going to be required to change to make it work. However changing the whole character that is Ciri from tip to toe is in my opinion a rather drastic one. Especially if the only reason for it is "Well we really want a diverse cast". And doubly so when literally any other person in the series could be cast that way instead of Ciri and those changes wouldn't have to be made. This line of argument is a far cry from the "Are they really that unimaginative?" tripe you were going on about earlier. Just because you can't imagine there being legit reasons for something doesn't mean they don't exist. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
The only thing that has to be said is that this is an American production so taking liberties on pretty inconsequential things like Ciri's skin colour shouldn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. As far as I'm aware, there's only one mention of skin colour with direct relation to Ciri and that's describing Ciri's doppelganger as pale skinned. This isn't exactly a biopic of Oskar Schindler or Christopher Wallace. There's already a Polish Witcher series for those who want the true Eastern European experience. | ||
|
Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On September 14 2018 08:34 Womwomwom wrote: The lore between books and games aren't even that consistent, like the status of Geralt's job as a Witcher, what monsters are actually vulnerable to silver weapons or even the overall characterization of Geralt. The only thing that has to be said is that this is an American production so taking liberties on pretty inconsequential things like Ciri's skin colour shouldn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. As far as I'm aware, there's only one mention of skin colour with direct relation to Ciri and that's describing Ciri's doppelganger as pale skinned. This isn't exactly a biopic of Oskar Schindler or Christopher Wallace. There's already a Polish Witcher series for those who want the true Eastern European experience. A bigger issue is the ramifications of what Ciri being black does to the story as a whole. Hot swapping an african nation into a german nations role carries a lot of issues with the basic premises that the IP has. If the black ones are really " the black ones" then it makes the oppression of the northern white realms problematic at the least and Geralts place in the world even more problematic. Her casting doesn't happen in a vacuum. | ||
|
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On September 14 2018 08:40 Sermokala wrote: A bigger issue is the ramifications of what Ciri being black does to the story as a whole. Hot swapping an african nation into a german nations role carries a lot of issues with the basic premises that the IP has. If the black ones are really " the black ones" then it makes the oppression of the northern white realms problematic at the least and Geralts place in the world even more problematic. Her casting doesn't happen in a vacuum. I don't disagree with that any of that actually. The wider point I'm making is that if the American production team wants to take liberties with their take on the Witcher books to appeal to an American audience, then I'm perfectly fine with that. I just don't think people arguing for consistency with books and games are points people want to be making. The plot and characterization in the video games are Witcher fan fiction to the nth degree. | ||
|
Sermokala
United States14155 Posts
On September 14 2018 08:45 Womwomwom wrote: I don't disagree with that any of that actually. The wider point I'm making is that if the American production team wants to take liberties with their take on the Witcher books to appeal to an American audience, then I'm perfectly fine with that. I just don't think people arguing for consistency with books and games are points people want to be making. The plot and characterization in the video games are Witcher fan fiction to the nth degree. I disagree. I see it as people wanting the version of the story that they feel is most accurate and true to the reason why its popular in the first place. See Man of steel and superman killing zod. They see what the changes would do the story and they don't think those are good changes. Mainstream television and movies have shown contempt for nerd culture in their adaptations more often then not and don't want to see it again. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On September 14 2018 09:01 Sermokala wrote: I disagree. I see it as people wanting the version of the story that they feel is most accurate and true to the reason why its popular in the first place. See Man of steel and superman killing zod. They see what the changes would do the story and they don't think those are good changes. Mainstream television and movies have shown contempt for nerd culture in their adaptations more often then not and don't want to see it again. Man of Steel's problems can be summed up by the Zod neck break sequence but that's not really the reason why its bad. Its just not a good film because Zack Snyder is a commercial director at heart who wanted both spiritual edification and stupidly long & destructive fight sequences. On September 14 2018 09:04 Plansix wrote: Fan fiction with the official licensing from the creator and 100 million dollar budget isn’t really fan fiction. It defies the very convention of what makes fan fiction communities, not getting paid and not having no permission. That's obviously not the point I'm making. I'm talking about the "lore consistency" argument people frequently bring up, the Witcher games take really big liberties with the books so they're actually playable and interesting to a gaming audience. Like I alluded to...when people say that they want the American production to respect "people wanting the version of the story that they feel is most accurate and true", are they talking about the books or are they talking about the games? I bet you fans of the Witcher 3 are probably going to be disappointed if they follow the books more strongly because Book Geralt is a huge loser. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
Falling
Canada11577 Posts
On September 14 2018 06:34 Plansix wrote: I sometimes wonder if people watched a different movie. The entire point of that scene is that they could have gotten away after Poe distracted the dreadnaught and Poe was ordered to retreat. The only reason it got a chance come close to firing is because they waited to support Poe's unauthorized attack. He defied orders and got people killed to destroy a piece of military hardware. That's not so clear as it was never directly explained. If they were just waiting for Poe, then that's not very clever. X-wings have always been shown to have hyperdrives. So just leave him and go- there's a giant space cannon spooling up again (which should have shot the Raddus before the base, but whatever.) I assumed that they were still hanging around because they couldn't leave- either due to receiving the last of the transports or because they were still calculating the jump to the hyperspace or something. The idea that they wanted to retreat, but chose to wait for one pilot to come back seemed so absurd, I didn't even consider it on first viewing, as it would make Leia much worse. But the main point is, no reason was given- so any reason for sticking around is head canon. But can't jump is much better than won't jump as far as the Rebel leadership is concerned. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 14 2018 09:56 Falling wrote: That's not so clear as it was never directly explained. If they were just waiting for Poe, then that's not very clever. X-wings have always been shown to have hyperdrives. So just leave him and go- there's a giant space cannon spooling up again (which should have shot the Raddus before the base, but whatever.) I assumed that they were still hanging around because they couldn't leave- either due to receiving the last of the transports or because they were still calculating the jump to the hyperspace or something. The idea that they wanted to retreat, but chose to wait for one pilot to come back seemed so absurd, I didn't even consider it on first viewing, as it would make Leia much worse. But the main point is, no reason was given- so any reason for sticking around is head canon. But can't jump is much better than won't jump as far as the Rebel leadership is concerned. I think the point was to have all the ships there to provide support for the bomber fleet he was commanding and he told to attack. In star wars the fleets like to jump together. | ||
|
Introvert
United States5000 Posts
I suppose for context I should add that this is a story from a well-respected news source on the last minute, highly suspicious accusations against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh for some sort of misconduct, with #MeToo overtones. A senior Democratic senator has alerted federal investigators to a confidential letter she received regarding Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump’s conservative nominee for the US supreme court, in an extraordinary move that suggested she had been informed of possible wrongdoing. Dianne Feinstein, who is the top Democrat on the Senate judiciary committee, said she had received information about Kavanaugh’s nomination from an individual who had strongly requested confidentiality. The letter was likely passed on to the FBI because the bureau is responsible for background checks into judicial nominees. News of the letter came as Judge Kavanaugh faced fresh scrutiny about his relationship with another judge, who was forced to resign from the bench last year. “I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the supreme court,” Feinstein said in a statement. “That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities,” she said. A source who said they were briefed on the contents of the letter said it described an incident involving Kavanaugh and a woman that took place when both were 17 years old and at a party. According to the source, Kavanaugh and a male friend had locked her in a room against her will, making her feel threatened, but she was able to get out of the room. The Guardian has not verified the apparent claims in the letter. It is not yet clear who wrote it. A spokesman for Feinstein declined to comment. The White House did not immediately return a request for comment. While additional details about the letter were scarce, two media outlets have reported that the person who wrote the letter is being represented by an attorney, Debra Katz, who has been described in media reports as Washington’s #MeToo lawyer. Katz has not responded to a request for comment from the Guardian. BuzzFeed reported that she was seen on Capitol Hill on Wednesday night, shortly after the Intercept first reported the existence of the letter. And just as the cherry on top, the last ~900 words of the article are all about Kavanaugh's relationship to now-disgraced former Judge Kozinski, which is an obvious attempt to try and make this something, while being a recognition that it's really nothing. It's pretty dirty, really, but it IS funny. www.theguardian.com Edit: or, as one theoy I read says, this is purposely ridiculous so that when the "real story" comes out, it enhances it. Interesting thought. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
m4ini
4215 Posts
Obviously. I mean, where are we at now. Democrats have pedophile rings, faked the moonlanding, faked school shootings, faked deaths in puerto rico - it's not that big a stretch to argue that democrats are "them" and "they" are coming after the good, honest, swampdrained republicans that all just genuinely want the best for you. And nature. In regards to the witcher: Ciri in the TV show was shown as people understood what she's supposed to look like based on the books (the entire show is based on Last Wish and Sword of Destiny). Sure you can bend everything to bullshit reasons in how Ciri is black now, but in all honesty: why? Like, what exactly is the reason that we need a black ciri, instead of the one that A everyone knows (the games), everyone assumes (the books) or more die hard fans know (the TV show)? If someone can give me a good explanation why you have to deliberately look for a minority actress other than just trying to be politically correct (which is not enough reason for me to screw with a story that i loved for decades), lets hear it. Here's the thing. It's not like she'd be black/asian/whatever out of necessity. They'd change everything people know to pander. It's like me asking that Wakanda is populated by white people in Black Panther 2. It would be stupid, in fact as stupid as Johansson as Motoko or a black girl as Ciri. But, what i find very telling, is that the usual suspects immediately make this an issue of racism, and "oh so you're against diversity then?". As i just said, i disliked a white actress in Ghost in the Shell, i despised the american actor in Death Note. Doctor Strange/Tilda Swinton, the list goes on. Whitewashing is as annoying as pandering to SJWs. Henry Cavill Well, guess it doesn't matter anyway. There's so many obvious choices, why someone would go with that guy is beyond me. The Rock would've been a better choice, and i understand that the Rock doesn't have the correct skin color, hair, bodytype, anything at all to play the witcher. Neither does Cavill, but at least Johnson is likeable. Why Cavillo is chosen over Viggo Mortensen, or Karl Urban completely escapes me. | ||
| ||
