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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 692

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-13 18:36:15
September 13 2018 18:34 GMT
#13821
--- Nuked ---
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
September 13 2018 18:35 GMT
#13822
On September 14 2018 03:32 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:22 farvacola wrote:
The rumor mill is buzzing with regards to a letter received by Feinstein recently. While no one is sure about many of the details, the reporting on it from the New Republic and the Intercept suggests the letter pertains to a possible sexual assault committed by Kavanaugh during his youth. The woman involved has also picked up lawyer Debra Katz, a noted #MeToo victim attorney, and Feinstein referred the matter to the FBI.


Even if this is true nothing will come of it. Look at the way football *cough Big 10* fans went to the mat for their coaches/administrations. One of the most common defenses was "she wouldn't have waited this long to come out if it was true." That, coupled with "the timing is too convenient/this is a political ploy" arguments, will ensure that the truth is irrelevant. Nor will it noticeably slow things down (tho I did see the report that his vote had been delayed... wonder if it's related to this).

If I may Minnesota didn't go to the mat for their football coach when there was a sexual assault allegation and suspended a lot of players before the allegation was proven false.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Ryzel
Profile Joined December 2012
United States546 Posts
September 13 2018 18:35 GMT
#13823
On September 14 2018 03:30 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:24 Ryzel wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:09 Plansix wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:03 Ryzel wrote:
I can’t comment on why a show presumably about advocating gun rights would talk about this, or why she would think a human-like being shouldn’t contain human-like aspects of identity.

Although this does raise an interesting question, where does one draw the line to include ethnic/racial aspects of identity on anthropomorhized objects/creatures? Does any form of speech make it fair game, or do they also need to have a face?

Is the question interesting? Is it really? Does it matter at all of if there is a line or not? Was there ever a line or did people create it because they wanted to get mad about something on the internet to make money?


*shrug* I haven’t seen any uproars about the droids in Star Wars, or even alien races, not having diverse cultures despite being clearly human-like. Clearly there’s an aspect to Thomas and the tank engines that isn’t shared by those beings (or maybe I haven’t been looking hard enough). And to be fair, getting mad about things on the internet to make money is a prolific practice used in politics by people of all viewpoints. I’d imagine whether or not you’re annoyed by someone like that depends on whether you agree or disagree with them.

FWIW, I agree that what she did is absolutely ridiculous. As in, deserves to be ridiculed.


But there was also no uproar when Thomas and his friends were not diverse. The uproar started when they suddenly started being diverse, when the creators added new characters.

There is only one side roaring here, it seems. And I would ridicule anyone who would actually have complained about the trains not being diverse enough, as I do with everyone bitching about them being too diverse.


I agree with this post. So you’re saying anthropomorphic characters should be as ethnically/racially diverse (or not) as their creators want them to be?
Hakuna Matata B*tches
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 13 2018 18:36 GMT
#13824
On September 14 2018 02:50 Ryzel wrote:
Since there seems to be confusion with the Thomas the Tank Engine debacle, I will try to explain it.

According to the actual clip, the hostess is confused/upset by the idea that objects like trains can have an ethnicity or race. She makes the conclusion that different types of trains like girl trains and Chinese/Kenyan trains are superfluous because they’re just trains. Presumably, she’s arguing you would need to be a person to have an ethnicity. Following from this point, she views it as ridiculous that attempts are seemingly made to add diversity to the show because you can’t make trains more diverse. She then posits whether this is being done because the train characters are “too white, even though their faces are gray”, and uses the waaaaaaay over-the-top KKK picture to make a joke saying “oh, yeah I guess they are too white”.

Hope that clears it up.



That was how it struck me as well. Pretty silly and stupid to do. Simultaneously not the proof thread leftists have been looking for that the NRA was always secretly racist and never really represented it's black gun-owning membership.

It's kind of the Fox News Tucker Carlson syndrome. "Owning the left" and "the left's stupidity on X social issue" can metastasize into something as idiotic as trump derangement syndrome.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18241 Posts
September 13 2018 18:37 GMT
#13825
On September 14 2018 03:16 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:11 Velr wrote:
So change the same shit to a more grown up stupid fantasy series?

Netflix just announced that they want to make siri "non white" in their witcher series and the fans are outraged (which is kinda understandable because it does not make any sense and you would have to change the whole "main" kingdom for it to do so).

But naturally the ugliest of right wing assholes show up to be outraged and all nuance is lost... Ugh...


First off it's "Ciri" (Pedantic, I know, but it's important...well, not really).

Secondly I would take it with a grain of salt until we hear something confirmed. The ad for Ciri's actor was not published by any reputable source, and the show runners have not confirmed or deconfirmed anything.

That said I'm right there with the rabid fanbase if they actually make Ciri anything other than white. Not only because of the setting (although that is a good enough reason on its own) but because of the entire lore surrounding here making it pretty much impossible for her to have any kind of color. They could literally make any other character in the show non-white, except for Geralt and Ciri, and it could be explained away somehow and possibly make it work. But for it to work on any of those two they would literally have to rewrite their entire backstories.

Why? The royal family of Sintra is simply black. And no, Cintra is not "fantasy some corner of Poland", but rather "fantasy some corner of Africa". And other than that, everything could be exactly the same.

Lets face it, Idriss Elba made a fantastic Heimdall and that is actually a character from actual Norse mythology.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-13 18:38:37
September 13 2018 18:38 GMT
#13826
On September 14 2018 03:32 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:22 farvacola wrote:
The rumor mill is buzzing with regards to a letter received by Feinstein recently. While no one is sure about many of the details, the reporting on it from the New Republic and the Intercept suggests the letter pertains to a possible sexual assault committed by Kavanaugh during his youth. The woman involved has also picked up lawyer Debra Katz, a noted #MeToo victim attorney, and Feinstein referred the matter to the FBI.


Even if this is true nothing will come of it. Look at the way football *cough Big 10* fans went to the mat for their coaches/administrations. One of the most common defenses was "she wouldn't have waited this long to come out if it was true." That, coupled with "the timing is too convenient/this is a political ploy" arguments, will ensure that the truth is irrelevant. Nor will it noticeably slow things down (tho I did see the report that his vote had been delayed... wonder if it's related to this).

The vote delay was basicallly Senate Dems' last procedural weapon, so I'd bet it was going to happen as a matter of course. As for whether or not this new info changes anything, I think you're right, though given how little we know, I'm still hopeful!

One note on the shittiness of Big 10 fans relative to sexual assault and other sexual crimes: my personal experience leads me to believe that most of those willing to totally excuse the abusers/enablers are Big 10 fans, but not alumni
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-13 18:50:50
September 13 2018 18:41 GMT
#13827
The problem I have with the potential whicher casting thing is that there already is a ton about race and racism in the story without having to change parts about the characters for no reason other then filling quotas. Just because those races are elves and dwarves (with a heaping of religious witch hunting) instead of white and black people means to television people it doesn't matter. It devalues the stories core themes in pursuit of making it more of a commentary on the real world.

Although.... niflgaard are referred to as the "black ones" however. Nominally this is in reference to their armor but If in the TV series this refers to the color of their skin I could accept it as an interesting twist on it.

There would be a much larger issue if the skellege isles are anything but kerns from viking ireland.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
September 13 2018 18:43 GMT
#13828
On September 14 2018 03:35 Ryzel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:30 mahrgell wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:24 Ryzel wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:09 Plansix wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:03 Ryzel wrote:
I can’t comment on why a show presumably about advocating gun rights would talk about this, or why she would think a human-like being shouldn’t contain human-like aspects of identity.

Although this does raise an interesting question, where does one draw the line to include ethnic/racial aspects of identity on anthropomorhized objects/creatures? Does any form of speech make it fair game, or do they also need to have a face?

Is the question interesting? Is it really? Does it matter at all of if there is a line or not? Was there ever a line or did people create it because they wanted to get mad about something on the internet to make money?


*shrug* I haven’t seen any uproars about the droids in Star Wars, or even alien races, not having diverse cultures despite being clearly human-like. Clearly there’s an aspect to Thomas and the tank engines that isn’t shared by those beings (or maybe I haven’t been looking hard enough). And to be fair, getting mad about things on the internet to make money is a prolific practice used in politics by people of all viewpoints. I’d imagine whether or not you’re annoyed by someone like that depends on whether you agree or disagree with them.

FWIW, I agree that what she did is absolutely ridiculous. As in, deserves to be ridiculed.


But there was also no uproar when Thomas and his friends were not diverse. The uproar started when they suddenly started being diverse, when the creators added new characters.

There is only one side roaring here, it seems. And I would ridicule anyone who would actually have complained about the trains not being diverse enough, as I do with everyone bitching about them being too diverse.


I agree with this post. So you’re saying anthropomorphic characters should be as ethnically/racially diverse (or not) as their creators want them to be?


Pretty much that, yes.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 13 2018 18:44 GMT
#13829
On September 14 2018 03:34 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:22 farvacola wrote:
The rumor mill is buzzing with regards to a letter received by Feinstein recently. While no one is sure about many of the details, the reporting on it from the New Republic and the Intercept suggests the letter pertains to a possible sexual assault committed by Kavanaugh during his youth. The woman involved has also picked up lawyer Debra Katz, a noted #MeToo victim attorney, and Feinstein referred the matter to the FBI.


Since when do affairs have the FBI involved.



Because it is likely not an affair so much as a sexual assault, at least that is what the victim is claiming, innocence until proven guilty of course (not that the media follows that rule but you know what I mean).


But the FBI? I'd imagine local jurisdiction would come into play to put the local police wherever it happened.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8243 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-13 19:04:13
September 13 2018 18:46 GMT
#13830
On September 14 2018 03:37 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:16 Excludos wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:11 Velr wrote:
So change the same shit to a more grown up stupid fantasy series?

Netflix just announced that they want to make siri "non white" in their witcher series and the fans are outraged (which is kinda understandable because it does not make any sense and you would have to change the whole "main" kingdom for it to do so).

But naturally the ugliest of right wing assholes show up to be outraged and all nuance is lost... Ugh...


First off it's "Ciri" (Pedantic, I know, but it's important...well, not really).

Secondly I would take it with a grain of salt until we hear something confirmed. The ad for Ciri's actor was not published by any reputable source, and the show runners have not confirmed or deconfirmed anything.

That said I'm right there with the rabid fanbase if they actually make Ciri anything other than white. Not only because of the setting (although that is a good enough reason on its own) but because of the entire lore surrounding here making it pretty much impossible for her to have any kind of color. They could literally make any other character in the show non-white, except for Geralt and Ciri, and it could be explained away somehow and possibly make it work. But for it to work on any of those two they would literally have to rewrite their entire backstories.

Why? The royal family of Sintra is simply black. And no, Cintra is not "fantasy some corner of Poland", but rather "fantasy some corner of Africa". And other than that, everything could be exactly the same.


I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas for any of this. Cintra's royal family was not black, and the the kingdom was a northern one, and definitively not anything African inspired.

edit: Removed spoilers. I just realised not everyone might know this.

edit2: Oh, Yeah I misread your point there. No I'm sure if they rewrote large portions of her lore they could somehow make it work. I'm sure they could rewrite it to be about an African inspired tribe, and have scorpion blood run through her veins instead of Elven..but at that point there's barely any point in keeping it in the Witcher universe anymore now is it? Just make that story in a completely new and different fantasy setting. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to go down that road.

On September 14 2018 03:37 Acrofales wrote: Lets face it, Idriss Elba made a fantastic Heimdall and that is actually a character from actual Norse mythology.


This is very true, and something I would also probably think a bad idea before I saw the movie. However they got away with it because he's not really explained..he doesn't need to be. His lore is not pivotal to the entire story of the Marvel universe, unlike Ciri. If they can pull her off being anything other than white I would be happy about it, but from the offset it doesn't make a lot of sense and it's a really bad idea to even try (Especially when there is so much diversity in the Witcher universe already, and a lot of the stories already delve deep into racism. There's very little need to push anything more in there unless there's a very specific and good reason)
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
September 13 2018 18:50 GMT
#13831
My team is in the Big10 and the people I know/talked to are against a lot of the shit that went down regarding players. The fans are way more critical than you think. Sorry for adding to the tangent.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 13 2018 18:51 GMT
#13832
On September 14 2018 03:41 Sermokala wrote:
The problem I have with the potential whicher casting thing is that there already is a ton about race and racism in the story without having to change parts about the characters for no reason other then filling quotas. Just because those races are elves and dwarves (with a heaping of religious witch hunting) instead of white and black people means to television people it doesn't matter. It devalues the stories core themes in pursuit of making it more of a commentary on the real world.

We don’t even know if it is real a real casting call. And as someone who likes the Witcher and fantasy in general, the whole “racism, but with elves” is a way to engage with the concepts around bigotry, but also an easy way to have your cake and eat it too. It is a safe place holder for racism based on skin color. And it also makes it seem like racism base on skin color wouldn’t exist, which is always weird.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 13 2018 18:53 GMT
#13833
--- Nuked ---
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 13 2018 18:55 GMT
#13834
On September 14 2018 03:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:34 JimmiC wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:22 farvacola wrote:
The rumor mill is buzzing with regards to a letter received by Feinstein recently. While no one is sure about many of the details, the reporting on it from the New Republic and the Intercept suggests the letter pertains to a possible sexual assault committed by Kavanaugh during his youth. The woman involved has also picked up lawyer Debra Katz, a noted #MeToo victim attorney, and Feinstein referred the matter to the FBI.


Since when do affairs have the FBI involved.



Because it is likely not an affair so much as a sexual assault, at least that is what the victim is claiming, innocence until proven guilty of course (not that the media follows that rule but you know what I mean).


But the FBI? I'd imagine local jurisdiction would come into play to put the local police wherever it happened.

The FBI/Justice Department is the agency a Senator would hand that information over to and they would refer it to any law enforcement agency that had jurisdiction if there was cause for an investigation. A US Senator isn’t going to go directly to the local police/DA with the evidence.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 13 2018 19:10 GMT
#13835
--- Nuked ---
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-13 19:35:02
September 13 2018 19:34 GMT
#13836
The theory I read on the FBI involvement that made sense to me was there was money laundering to make it easier to pay off blackmail, rather than the actual allegations themselves. That would also make it more recent and would explain why Senate Dems went in so hard on the gambling/baseball tickets/etc., because if any of those debts were actually money laundering to deal with blackmail Kavanough would have perjured himself pretty directly.

Not to say any of that is confirmed/true, as far as I know.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 13 2018 19:38 GMT
#13837
On September 14 2018 04:10 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:36 Danglars wrote:
On September 14 2018 02:50 Ryzel wrote:
Since there seems to be confusion with the Thomas the Tank Engine debacle, I will try to explain it.

According to the actual clip, the hostess is confused/upset by the idea that objects like trains can have an ethnicity or race. She makes the conclusion that different types of trains like girl trains and Chinese/Kenyan trains are superfluous because they’re just trains. Presumably, she’s arguing you would need to be a person to have an ethnicity. Following from this point, she views it as ridiculous that attempts are seemingly made to add diversity to the show because you can’t make trains more diverse. She then posits whether this is being done because the train characters are “too white, even though their faces are gray”, and uses the waaaaaaay over-the-top KKK picture to make a joke saying “oh, yeah I guess they are too white”.

Hope that clears it up.



That was how it struck me as well. Pretty silly and stupid to do. Simultaneously not the proof thread leftists have been looking for that the NRA was always secretly racist and never really represented it's black gun-owning membership.

It's kind of the Fox News Tucker Carlson syndrome. "Owning the left" and "the left's stupidity on X social issue" can metastasize into something as idiotic as trump derangement syndrome.


I'm not sure if it was secretly racist in the past or not. But I feel pretty confident that it is racist now. To pick some random kids show and be outraged that they added a train from Africa? I mean come on now.

If they are not they should post a apology ASAP to explain how the "joke" went poorly. If someone makes a racist joke, it may not make them racist but it makes it a lot more likely. If a large organization, with editors, producers, directors and big budget, makes a racist "joke" video.... I'm pretty sure they got the message out there that they intended.

I take the opposite view, one very close to Ryzel's on it. But I do understand how you arrived at yours.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 13 2018 19:50 GMT
#13838
On September 14 2018 03:55 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:34 JimmiC wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:22 farvacola wrote:
The rumor mill is buzzing with regards to a letter received by Feinstein recently. While no one is sure about many of the details, the reporting on it from the New Republic and the Intercept suggests the letter pertains to a possible sexual assault committed by Kavanaugh during his youth. The woman involved has also picked up lawyer Debra Katz, a noted #MeToo victim attorney, and Feinstein referred the matter to the FBI.


Since when do affairs have the FBI involved.



Because it is likely not an affair so much as a sexual assault, at least that is what the victim is claiming, innocence until proven guilty of course (not that the media follows that rule but you know what I mean).


But the FBI? I'd imagine local jurisdiction would come into play to put the local police wherever it happened.

The FBI/Justice Department is the agency a Senator would hand that information over to and they would refer it to any law enforcement agency that had jurisdiction if there was cause for an investigation. A US Senator isn’t going to go directly to the local police/DA with the evidence.


But if this is about a woman/affair I'd imagine years have passed and no charges can be filed. Unless it is some type of Money laundering type deal which makes no sense with baseball tickets etc.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 13 2018 19:55 GMT
#13839
On September 14 2018 04:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2018 03:55 Plansix wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:34 JimmiC wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
On September 14 2018 03:22 farvacola wrote:
The rumor mill is buzzing with regards to a letter received by Feinstein recently. While no one is sure about many of the details, the reporting on it from the New Republic and the Intercept suggests the letter pertains to a possible sexual assault committed by Kavanaugh during his youth. The woman involved has also picked up lawyer Debra Katz, a noted #MeToo victim attorney, and Feinstein referred the matter to the FBI.


Since when do affairs have the FBI involved.



Because it is likely not an affair so much as a sexual assault, at least that is what the victim is claiming, innocence until proven guilty of course (not that the media follows that rule but you know what I mean).


But the FBI? I'd imagine local jurisdiction would come into play to put the local police wherever it happened.

The FBI/Justice Department is the agency a Senator would hand that information over to and they would refer it to any law enforcement agency that had jurisdiction if there was cause for an investigation. A US Senator isn’t going to go directly to the local police/DA with the evidence.


But if this is about a woman/affair I'd imagine years have passed and no charges can be filed. Unless it is some type of Money laundering type deal which makes no sense with baseball tickets etc.

So she referred it to the FBI, so I think it is safe to assume that the letter involves some sort of criminal wrong doing that she felt should be looked into and we are not aware of. Or she is a complete moron and thinks affairs are illegal.

I choose the first one because it makes more sense.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-13 20:17:33
September 13 2018 20:17 GMT
#13840
Apparently Kavanaugh may have lied to the FBI when disclosing his prior history of legal trouble while being interviewed for his federal jobs.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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