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On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense.
I was the biggest champion of norms, bipartisanship and everyone trying to understand each other and work together. 2008 Plan6 would be pissed about these hearings and said there were rules and systems for a reason. But after a full decade of getting burned for trying bipartisan efforts, I’m done. I don’t give a shit about Trump, I was done when McConnell held up the nomination in 2016 and people still voting in Republicans. The only route now is to beat Republicans and conservatives at their own game. And that starts with some good old fashion political theater, because its good TV. This is the political future until every gets tired of it and votes in people who can get along. But until then, I’m going to enough the show because its fun to watch elected Republican get a taste of their own medicine.
On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms.
You are complaining that the Democrats are trying win elections, which is how you get political power a Democracy? Are you blaming them for having a good plan, you know, like the 5 Benghazi investigations(5 times the hearings)?
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On September 04 2018 23:29 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense. Do the hearings matter? Are they going to make a difference? Or is it just for the sake of norms? They withheld 100k documents related to the guy they are going to confirm. It's not like a hearing is needed if they are going to only look at part of his record. Might as well go this is our guy and vote at this point
The poster previous called regular hearings political theatre. I fail to see an argument for why norms should not be followed in your description of why the hearings matter less since the result is known.
Now, if you’re being represented by an attorney and I ask for his documents, is invoking attorney-client privilege perfidious because it leads to maybe hundreds or thousands of documents? Is the same characteristic of executive privilege? Or just because somebody asks for them, there’s shadows and fears for them being withheld.
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On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms.
Kagan was a Clinton White House advisor and Obama's WH didn't claim privilege on any of her documents.
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On September 04 2018 23:36 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:29 IyMoon wrote:On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense. Do the hearings matter? Are they going to make a difference? Or is it just for the sake of norms? They withheld 100k documents related to the guy they are going to confirm. It's not like a hearing is needed if they are going to only look at part of his record. Might as well go this is our guy and vote at this point The poster previous called regular hearings political theatre. I fail to see an argument for why norms should not be followed in your description of why the hearings matter less since the result is known. Now, if you’re being represented by an attorney and I ask for his documents, is invoking attorney-client privilege perfidious because it leads to maybe hundreds or thousands of documents? Is the same characteristic of executive privilege? Or just because somebody asks for them, there’s shadows and fears for them being withheld.
I am not a lawyer so please be patient with me here, but are you trying to say that a candidate for the highest court in the land, someone who will serve for life should be able to hide decisions they have made?
I could understand that if the documents have some classified information he was required to rule on. But this isn't some regular person going to court who might need to protect themselves. The SC nom should be the most open thing in the world.
Please let me know if I am confused on parts, again, not a lawyer
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On September 04 2018 23:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense. I was the biggest champion of norms, bipartisanship and everyone trying to understand each other and work together. 2008 Plan6 would be pissed about these hearings and said there were rules and systems for a reason. But after a full decade of getting burned for trying bipartisan efforts, I’m done. I don’t give a shit about Trump, I was done when McConnell held up the nomination in 2016 and people still voting in Republicans. The only route now is to beat Republicans and conservatives at their own game. And that starts with some good old fashion political theater, because its good TV. This is the political future until every gets tired of it and votes in people who can get along. But until then, I’m going to enough the show because its fun to watch elected Republican get a taste of their own medicine.
This is a fair characterization of your behavior post Trump and I thank your honesty and openness in expressing it.
Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms. You are complaining that the Democrats are trying win elections, which is how you get political power a Democracy? Are you blaming them for having a good plan, you know, like the 5 Benghazi investigations(5 times the hearings)?
Oh yeah, the Benghazi hearings were a joke. I would think consistency would demand you call these proceedings a joke as wel, when the chairman cannot even make it through his damn opening statements without interruption from the opposing party.
The grandstanding for heightening your political visibility during a Senatorial hearing is not some vital part of democracy.
You could, I don’t know, wait to be recognized and use your 30 minutes of questioning to actually make the hearing about the nominee in the way of Democratic institutions. Not use interruptions and out-of-order motions to flaunt your #resist-y credentials to the camera.
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On September 04 2018 23:36 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:29 IyMoon wrote:On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense. Do the hearings matter? Are they going to make a difference? Or is it just for the sake of norms? They withheld 100k documents related to the guy they are going to confirm. It's not like a hearing is needed if they are going to only look at part of his record. Might as well go this is our guy and vote at this point The poster previous called regular hearings political theatre. I fail to see an argument for why norms should not be followed in your description of why the hearings matter less since the result is known. Now, if you’re being represented by an attorney and I ask for his documents, is invoking attorney-client privilege perfidious because it leads to maybe hundreds or thousands of documents? Is the same characteristic of executive privilege? Or just because somebody asks for them, there’s shadows and fears for them being withheld.
I never said political theater was bad. I am on records saying that some political theater is healthy for a democracy. All public hearings are performance in some way or another. The talking points and questions are prepared. The reporters are there to soak up every word.
The problem I have is when people put on faux grievance that the Democrats are holding up the process by engaging in political grandstanding because they didn’t get the documents they wanted. The Republicans knew this was coming and moved forward with the hearings anyways. They knew every Democratic Senator was pissed about the 2016 stolen seat. If they wanted to get along and have a nice polite hearing, maybe they should have considered giving the Democrats what they wanted. They didn’t, so they get a shit show of a hearing.
On September 04 2018 23:41 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:31 Plansix wrote:On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense. I was the biggest champion of norms, bipartisanship and everyone trying to understand each other and work together. 2008 Plan6 would be pissed about these hearings and said there were rules and systems for a reason. But after a full decade of getting burned for trying bipartisan efforts, I’m done. I don’t give a shit about Trump, I was done when McConnell held up the nomination in 2016 and people still voting in Republicans. The only route now is to beat Republicans and conservatives at their own game. And that starts with some good old fashion political theater, because its good TV. This is the political future until every gets tired of it and votes in people who can get along. But until then, I’m going to enough the show because its fun to watch elected Republican get a taste of their own medicine. This is a fair characterization of your behavior post Trump and I thank your honesty and openness in expressing it. Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms. You are complaining that the Democrats are trying win elections, which is how you get political power a Democracy? Are you blaming them for having a good plan, you know, like the 5 Benghazi investigations(5 times the hearings)? Oh yeah, the Benghazi hearings were a joke. I would think consistency would demand you call these proceedings a joke as wel, when the chairman cannot even make it through his damn opening statements without interruption from the opposing party.
I don’t think the hearings were a joke. They were a use of political power to attack a political opponent by the Republican party. I think they were unhealthy and have helped lead to the current political climate we are in today. But they were not a joke and they were well within the rights of the Republicans who held control of House. And I look forward to the Democrats using the same power to destroy some political opponents. Because to get back to bipartisanship and progress, the Republicans must be burned for flying to close to the sun. They need to be burned so badly that voters are unwilling to support those tactics in politics.
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On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms. Good to see you utterly failed to answer the question and immediately resorted to the political theater.
And only 27k documents were related to Bush, another 100k are for 'other' reasons, so there goes that argument
And yes I would expect every microscopic thing about a prospective Supreme court judge to be exposed to the public. Because we're talking about the highest legal position in the country that gets appointed for life.
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I don't get it Danglars, what exactly is the problem here? You have no problem for the past two years when Trump and his corrupt cronies aren't following norms, but suddenly in the moment when Trump is installing a crony into the highest court, at when the legitimacy of American democracy is most at stake, it's a problem.
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Another sign the public is not happy with the course of the court is the recent polling. The general public doesn’t get much say in who is on the court, but the parties have never nominated anyone who has this level of disapproval. And this narrative that the conservative majority Supreme Court was obtained against the will of the US people will never die. McConnell will leave office and people will still talk about the stolen nomination.
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On September 04 2018 23:40 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:36 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:29 IyMoon wrote:On September 04 2018 23:23 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote:Not much. They are not in power and the Republicans have the votes to confirm him. The Democrats would need to hold on to every one of their votes and 1 or 2 Republican senators would need to flip. It is all but assured that he will be on the bench. Long term, this type of confirmation process is going to do real damage to the court. This is one of the most contested nominations in modern history and I doubt people are going to forget it once the rulings come down. Kavanaugh is also one of the least popular nominees by a wide margin, likely because the country does not like one party controlling any breach of government for decades at time. The Republican Senators are playing with fire and I don’t even think some of them realize it. On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. The hearing was political theater to begin with. The Republicans are going to confirm him. As I said before, the Democrats have stopped the delusion that there are rules to this game and are now just trying to upstage the Republicans. Welcome to the future of politics for the next 20 years. The hearing is standard norms, which if I knew your stance prior, should still continue despite Donald J Trump occupying the White House. Now, I’m hearing that they’re political theatre. We should just have no hearings and a confirmation vote then? This makes no sense. Do the hearings matter? Are they going to make a difference? Or is it just for the sake of norms? They withheld 100k documents related to the guy they are going to confirm. It's not like a hearing is needed if they are going to only look at part of his record. Might as well go this is our guy and vote at this point The poster previous called regular hearings political theatre. I fail to see an argument for why norms should not be followed in your description of why the hearings matter less since the result is known. Now, if you’re being represented by an attorney and I ask for his documents, is invoking attorney-client privilege perfidious because it leads to maybe hundreds or thousands of documents? Is the same characteristic of executive privilege? Or just because somebody asks for them, there’s shadows and fears for them being withheld. I am not a lawyer so please be patient with me here, but are you trying to say that a candidate for the highest court in the land, someone who will serve for life should be able to hide decisions they have made? I could understand that if the documents have some classified information he was required to rule on. But this isn't some regular person going to court who might need to protect themselves. The SC nom should be the most open thing in the world. Please let me know if I am confused on parts, again, not a lawyer
I just didn’t see an argument in your post for why the norms on hearings should not be followed.
And yes, when I responded earlier to another about attorney-client privilege and executive privilege, I meant that it is vitally important that the confidentiality of those relationships are preserved. I brought up the IyMoon-YourLawyer example to illustrate one particular instance where withholding documents is justified.
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On September 04 2018 23:43 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms. Good to see you utterly failed to answer the question and immediately resorted to the political theater. And only 27k documents were related to Bush, another 100k are for 'other' reasons, so there goes that argument And yes I would expect every microscopic thing about a prospective Supreme court judge to be exposed to the public. Because we're talking about the highest legal position in the country that gets appointed for life.
You pointed to the number of documents without the reason for them being withheld. I was trying to elicit a regular response from you acknowledging the rationale behind withholding them and perhaps an argument for why that’s trash in post-Trump era as well.
If we’re just going to joke around about 100k, then I can have that kind of fun too. Were the first 488,000 not enough, and he’s carrying on this secretive double life in the last 120k?
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The norms are being followed. The man is getting a hearing in the political environment we current exist in. This is exactly the hearing he is entitled to and he will be confirmed after the hearings resolve.
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On September 05 2018 00:13 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2018 23:43 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms. Good to see you utterly failed to answer the question and immediately resorted to the political theater. And only 27k documents were related to Bush, another 100k are for 'other' reasons, so there goes that argument And yes I would expect every microscopic thing about a prospective Supreme court judge to be exposed to the public. Because we're talking about the highest legal position in the country that gets appointed for life. You pointed to the number of documents without the reason for them being withheld. I was trying to elicit a regular response from you acknowledging the rationale behind withholding them and perhaps an argument for why that’s trash in post-Trump era as well. If we’re just going to joke around about 100k, then I can have that kind of fun too. Were the first 488,000 not enough, and he’s carrying on this secretive double life in the last 120k? Ehm yes?
Was that supposed to be trick question? cause its not.
Just to take the first thing that popped into my head, He served under Bush? Was he involved in anything surrounding the illegal torture of POW's? I'd say that's an important thing to consider for a Supreme Court judge. But we can't know because those documents are being withheld.
If they contain classified information there are people within Congress who are cleared to view it.
And yes if my lawyer was being considered for the Supreme Court I would be ok with Congress having access to all his documents.
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Do you think that Brett has enough negative stuff he's said or written, that are enough to get him impeached from the seat? How long does this suppose "Presidential Privileges" last on his documents?
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For as long as the White House wants to hold onto them unless they are forced to produce by the court. And there would need to be mind boggling stuff in those documents to have him recalled from the bench.
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Like receiving money from "Christian" Churches? That's what I've been reading about the most.
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On September 05 2018 00:24 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2018 00:13 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:43 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:28 Danglars wrote:On September 04 2018 23:20 Gorsameth wrote:On September 04 2018 23:16 Danglars wrote:
Lol this hearing is great political theatre. Lots of face time for 2020 hopefuls.
No opening statement for Grassley without two interjections. Decorum be damned, this is Trump rules, and everybody knows that the proper response to Trump is playing up “resistance acting” for the cameras.
There’s nothing that you can do but laugh. And yeah they’ll blame Trump and documents and the rest, but watch the tape. The subtext is saying “Trump made me do this” because he’s broken norms. Ignoring all the political theater do you think it is proper to withhold 120k documents concerning the person to be appointed for life to the highest legal office in the country? You do know why they’re being withheld, right? Maybe if he previously advised Obama instead of a Republican, you would rediscover neutral objections that the president should be able to receive legal and policy advice confidentially without the fear of the giver later being dragged through the public eye and changing his advice based on how the public might interpret it. Kavanaugh is largely incidental to this circus. He will be confirmed. This is just Democrats riling up their base and upping their #Resistance profile. Maybe Republicans will see this stupid circus act and show up to the midterms. Good to see you utterly failed to answer the question and immediately resorted to the political theater. And only 27k documents were related to Bush, another 100k are for 'other' reasons, so there goes that argument And yes I would expect every microscopic thing about a prospective Supreme court judge to be exposed to the public. Because we're talking about the highest legal position in the country that gets appointed for life. You pointed to the number of documents without the reason for them being withheld. I was trying to elicit a regular response from you acknowledging the rationale behind withholding them and perhaps an argument for why that’s trash in post-Trump era as well. If we’re just going to joke around about 100k, then I can have that kind of fun too. Were the first 488,000 not enough, and he’s carrying on this secretive double life in the last 120k? Ehm yes? Was that supposed to be trick question? cause its not. Just to take the first thing that popped into my head, He served under Bush? Was he involved in anything surrounding the illegal torture of POW's? I'd say that's an important thing to consider for a Supreme Court judge. But we can't know because those documents are being withheld. If they contain classified information there are people within Congress who are cleared to view it. And yes if my lawyer was being considered for the Supreme Court I would be ok with Congress having access to all his documents.
Not classified per se, but subject to privileges such as attorney-client privilege, deliberative process privilege, and executive privilege. The same thing happened for Roberts.
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The problem with the White House’s move is they did it last Friday and the documents they have withheld are pretty much the entire 3 years that Kavanaugh worked at the Bush White House. There is a three year black hole in his legal record due to the White House’s last minute claim of privilege.
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The White House didn't claim privilege though did they? Only the Republican Senate said the white house claim privilege from what it sounded like at the start of the hearing. Which is the reason why democrats are all riling up in the hearing.
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On September 05 2018 00:50 Plansix wrote:
The problem with the White House’s move is they did it last Friday and the documents they have withheld are pretty much the entire 3 years that Kavanaugh worked at the Bush White House. There is a three year black hole in his legal record due to the White House’s last minute claim of privilege.
It's absolutely crazy how much power Trump has, I didn't even know that he and the White House could do that (or any number of other things I've seen since January 2017). Does the White House have to have a valid reason for withholding these documents, or is it that they can do it pretty much at will?
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EPT
