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KwarK
United States43987 Posts
They had a lot of nation state backers. They didn’t start off well armed citizens, the country fragmented into multiple ethnic and religious factions which made their own well equipped armies with foreign support. The conservative fantasy isn’t that Hispanics get tanks from Mexico and defeat the US army, it’s that white Americans shoot Obama. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2787 Posts
On March 08 2026 01:19 KwarK wrote: They had a lot of nation state backers. They didn’t start off well armed citizens, the country fragmented into multiple ethnic and religious factions which made their own well equipped armies with foreign support. The conservative fantasy isn’t that Hispanics get tanks from Mexico and defeat the US army, it’s that white Americans shoot Obama. Took 14 years to get well armed. If they had been from the start? Slightly more relevant. Tribes are not citizens exactly (more cohesive from the start) but they are well armed. When they turned on the SDF in favour of the new government they kicked them out really quickly. Tribe militia is a powerful force against the goverment in many middle eastern countries. | ||
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KwarK
United States43987 Posts
On March 08 2026 01:34 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Took 14 years to get well armed. If they had been from the start? Slightly more relevant. Tribes are not citizens exactly (more cohesive from the start) but they are well armed. When they turned on the SDF in favour of the new government they kicked them out really quickly. Tribe militia is a powerful force against the goverment in many middle eastern countries. Took 14 years to fully degrade the Syrian army too. If it had barely existed from the start things could have been different. | ||
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Razyda
966 Posts
On March 08 2026 01:18 Billyboy wrote: Both examples are citizens armed by foreign governments. Not people that bought a lot of hand guns at the local gun mart. Bizarre argument. Doesnt matter the source once they got armed they became gun owners. If anything you further the point that guns matter in overthrowing evil dictators. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2787 Posts
On March 08 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote: Took 14 years to fully degrade the Syrian army too. If it had barely existed from the start things could have been different. Incredibly dumb argument. A good argument against guns based on the middle east would be ISIS. Armed citizens overthrowing the government doesn't automatically mean they have to be the good guys. | ||
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KwarK
United States43987 Posts
On March 08 2026 02:02 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Incredibly dumb argument. A good argument against guns based on the middle east would be ISIS. Armed citizens overthrowing the government doesn't automatically mean they have to be the good guys. It's not a dumb argument. Conservatives like to imagine that their government is some illegitimate foreign entity, like a Red Dawn style occupation, and that they'll take it back with native forces. The example of Syria is a bunch of foreign backed groups fighting a native government. It's not an armed militia rising up, it's a civil war in which people who opposed the government were subsequently armed. You don't need the Second Amendment for that, Syria is more like if Mexican fighters cross into New Mexico to support a Hispanic uprising than that. The armed citizens being ISIS comparable religious extremists goes without saying. This is an American conservative fantasy, of course the women are subservient and the gays are being lynched. | ||
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Billyboy
1719 Posts
On March 08 2026 01:50 Razyda wrote: Bizarre argument. Doesnt matter the source once they got armed they became gun owners. If anything you further the point that guns matter in overthrowing evil dictators. My argument is that reality doesn’t fit your fantasy. Your counter argument is but my fantasy would make it better. Here’s a better idea, protect your democracy with laws against corruption and keeping individual power in check. | ||
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Razyda
966 Posts
On March 08 2026 03:07 Billyboy wrote: My argument is that reality doesn’t fit your fantasy. Your counter argument is but my fantasy would make it better. Here’s a better idea, protect your democracy with laws against corruption and keeping individual power in check. It is funny how words have no meaning any more. Do you know what is the meaning of the word "fantasy" ? What would qualify as fantasy in what i posted? And then is your second sentence which is pure fantasy, idealistic, but still fantasy. And it is in the same post where you posted this: "My argument is that reality doesn’t fit your fantasy" | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17509 Posts
On March 07 2026 17:22 decafchicken wrote: Did I miss anything good in the last 30 pages or just more semantic bickering while the world collapses collapses? only 2 to 4 million people have died in military conflict in the past 40 years. things are solid. to see how carefully measured both Iran and the USA are notice: (1) the USA just offered India a 30 day waiver to purchase Russian oil sanction free. (b) Iran apologized and promised not to hit their neighbours with drones (iii) Trump announced the U.S. International Development Finance Corporation would replace the insurers who've backed away from shipping through the persian gulf. U.S. International Development Finance Corporation will indemnify oil shipments through the persian gulf Both sides paint the other as irrational psychotics. That's just not the case... on either side. whining, bitching, moaning, and complaining are at all time highs though. | ||
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Billyboy
1719 Posts
On March 08 2026 03:20 Razyda wrote: It is funny how words have no meaning any more. Do you know what is the meaning of the word "fantasy" ? What would qualify as fantasy in what i posted? And then is your second sentence which is pure fantasy, idealistic, but still fantasy. And it is in the same post where you posted this: "My argument is that reality doesn’t fit your fantasy" Fantasy: the faculty or activity of imagining things. Much like people who have the good guy with the gun fantasy for stopping crime and mass shooting even though it happens well under 1% of the time. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17509 Posts
Arab states in the Persian Gulf are running dangerously low on interceptors to take down Iranian-fired missiles, two regional officials told CBS News. Arab states running low on interceptors just as Iran promises to stop sending missiles that require intercepting. Tellin' ya guys, what a COINCIDENCE! ! ! Anyhow this is prolly a back channel negotiated scaling back of conflict on all sides. This is also an "isolation raise". Iran does not want a multiway pot. Iran wants a 1-on-1 showdown. The USA and its defensive missiles will have to defend the GCC bases that launch attacks on Iran. | ||
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Razyda
966 Posts
On March 08 2026 03:36 Billyboy wrote: Fantasy: the faculty or activity of imagining things. Much like people who have the good guy with the gun fantasy for stopping crime and mass shooting even though it happens well under 1% of the time. See we have some progress now. Can you please specify what in my post you have seen as fantasy? | ||
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Billyboy
1719 Posts
On March 08 2026 04:19 Razyda wrote: See we have some progress now. Can you please specify what in my post you have seen as fantasy? Holy shit dude. That small arms purchased within the nation over through a dictatorship. What are you not following? Not to mention that I don’t think one dictator getting replaced by a different dictator is the win people are looking for! 😂 Edit: and if you want to look at the US example there is a correlation between more guns and a worsening democracy. | ||
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Razyda
966 Posts
On March 08 2026 05:02 Billyboy wrote: Holy shit dude. That small arms purchased within the nation over through a dictatorship. What are you not following? Not to mention that I don’t think one dictator getting replaced by a different dictator is the win people are looking for! 😂 Edit: and if you want to look at the US example there is a correlation between more guns and a worsening democracy. First of all where did you got "small" guns from? Second, I didnt say that. In what way guns purchased nationally are worse than guns supplied by foreign governments? Apparently, according to Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country there is 120 guns per 100 people in the US. I am not sure what you dont understand. If you have, for example, 50k people willing to overthrow dictator, but 5k guns then obviously foreign governments have to do some heavy lifting, If you have 50k people and 51k guns this burden gets much smaller. Frankly only fantasy here seem to be you fighting arguments no one made. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26785 Posts
On March 08 2026 06:16 Razyda wrote: First of all where did you got "small" guns from? Second, I didnt say that. In what way guns purchased nationally are worse than guns supplied by foreign governments? Apparently, according to Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country there is 120 guns per 100 people in the US. I am not sure what you dont understand. If you have, for example, 50k people willing to overthrow dictator, but 5k guns then obviously foreign governments have to do some heavy lifting, If you have 50k people and 51k guns this burden gets much smaller. Frankly only fantasy here seem to be you fighting arguments no one made. It doesn’t really because it’s 50k people with small arms, most of whom aren’t combat trained, versus a military and security forces who have better gear, and are. When regime change does tend to occur in recent times it’s either a peaceful groundswell thing, or a military coup, or a full-on civil war scenario with various paramilitary groups, frequently with foreign influence. And notably not that a bunch of armed citizens precipitate such things. The scenario you’re advocating for just doesn’t actually happen, hence the charge it’s fantasy. It also makes close to zero sense when combined with your other positions, such as ICE agents should be allowed to shroud their identity in case of reprisals I mean do you want people to be able to resist a government or not? | ||
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Vivax
22317 Posts
Shrug. Wake me up when the great America has law enforcement again. It‘s an unseen level of pettiness too. Like…These guys level schools including the students to achieve what exactly. | ||
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Billyboy
1719 Posts
On March 08 2026 06:16 Razyda wrote: First of all where did you got "small" guns from? Second, I didnt say that. In what way guns purchased nationally are worse than guns supplied by foreign governments? Apparently, according to Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country there is 120 guns per 100 people in the US. I am not sure what you dont understand. If you have, for example, 50k people willing to overthrow dictator, but 5k guns then obviously foreign governments have to do some heavy lifting, If you have 50k people and 51k guns this burden gets much smaller. Frankly only fantasy here seem to be you fighting arguments no one made. Wombat said it well. But small arms is a very common term for things like hand guns and other non military grade. The US has plenty of ARs but even more non military grade. Like you really think a bunch of dudes, that run away from every shooting in the US are going to team up and beat the US army, ICE, FBI, CIA, Local police and so on? Pure stupid fantasy. It’s crazy how many MAGA people sound like and think the same things are cool as 12 year old boys. It’s the never grew up movement. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2787 Posts
On March 08 2026 02:08 KwarK wrote: It's not a dumb argument. Conservatives like to imagine that their government is some illegitimate foreign entity, like a Red Dawn style occupation, and that they'll take it back with native forces. The example of Syria is a bunch of foreign backed groups fighting a native government. It's not an armed militia rising up, it's a civil war in which people who opposed the government were subsequently armed. You don't need the Second Amendment for that, Syria is more like if Mexican fighters cross into New Mexico to support a Hispanic uprising than that. The armed citizens being ISIS comparable religious extremists goes without saying. This is an American conservative fantasy, of course the women are subservient and the gays are being lynched. It started as protests. Then the military fired on protesters. Some military units switched sides and yes, the citizens did rise up as a militia. Very early footage had some insane guns used, I remember gun nuts pointing out that some antique guns from WWII that were used were worth small fortunes. Of course different factions like the tribes had some better weapons. The army suppressed parts of the uprising but couldn't stop it. And nearly lost once they got armed. Assad had to be bailed out heavily by Russia, Iran and Hezbollah. It's crazy to say that the rebels wouldn't have had a much easier time in a well armed society. In fact maybe they could have gotten enough momentum to win outright. Dictators get rid of guns if they can for a reason. More guns with citizens will always make regime change by force easier. In a pure dictatorship that's obviously a good thing. For any other goverment it's more of a risk. Plus of course the general problem of having close to unregulated amounts of guns in society. There are absolutely good ways to have guns in society that would favor citizens rising up against their goverment and pose a minor problem otherwise. One is a very widespread and healthy hunting community. Hunting rifles are almost useless for crime but if 20% of the population hunts and has on average 2.5 guns that's a potentially huge problem. Another way would be to have mandatory military service. You screen all young men (possibly women too) and train them. As long as they are in active reserve they either keep their guns at home or in army depots. Israel has a really powerful army but I'd argue it's almost impossible to suspend voting and turn it into a dictatorship. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1151 Posts
On March 08 2026 02:08 KwarK wrote: Conservatives like to imagine that their government is some illegitimate foreign entity, like a Red Dawn style occupation, and that they'll take it back with native forces. Apart from when their guy is the head of that foreign entity that comes in and takes people's rights, starts wars and evades justice for past and ongoing crimes. Then it's "peaceful protestors don't bring guns". | ||
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Razyda
966 Posts
On March 08 2026 06:43 WombaT wrote: It doesn’t really because it’s 50k people with small arms, most of whom aren’t combat trained, versus a military and security forces who have better gear, and are. When regime change does tend to occur in recent times it’s either a peaceful groundswell thing, or a military coup, or a full-on civil war scenario with various paramilitary groups, frequently with foreign influence. And notably not that a bunch of armed citizens precipitate such things. The scenario you’re advocating for just doesn’t actually happen, hence the charge it’s fantasy. It also makes close to zero sense when combined with your other positions, such as ICE agents should be allowed to shroud their identity in case of reprisals I mean do you want people to be able to resist a government or not? Again, where the "small" arms coming from?? Second of all I am not advocating for anything, I merely said that finally people start understand second amendment. It does really. Because it is still 50k armed people rather than 50k unarmed people. With the latter you just send in water cannons/crowd control and disperse "violent protests" arrest key figures and forget about it. With former you have whole different call to make. As for second paragraph: arent paramilitary groups very much armed citizens? My point is that whether guns are purchased in your corner store, or send to you by foreign government doesnt make a difference, what makes a difference is whether guns are there, or not. Also, last time i checked, there wasnt US embassy in the US, so chance that foreign country will supply you with guns to initiate regime change is close to 0. I also never said other countries wouldnt get involved. As for your last two paragraphs: it makes perfect sense. Them wearing maks protects their identity and consequently their families from harassment. Harassing somebody's family, is not resisting government is just being worthless pos. On the other hand masks dont make them immortal. You can go to US and start shootout with ICE agents. I will be the first to sing praises of brave Wombat resisting government. Edit: Just to clarify - I am not saying that you would harass someone family. | ||
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