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United States43987 Posts
On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected.
Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution.
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On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution.
Is Trump a legitimate president?
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United States43987 Posts
On January 04 2026 00:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution. Is Trump a legitimate president?
Trump did win the election as far as anyone can tell, yes. Maduro lost.
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On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution.
I know, and I agree. I hate Maduro’s guts and i absolutely root for Zelenski. But it’s not because a country is ruled by a dictator that you can violate it this way. At the end of the day it’s the same thing.
And you better believe Trump had no problem with dictatorships. So really, it’s not about that.
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On January 04 2026 00:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 00:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution. Is Trump a legitimate president? Trump did win the election as far as anyone can tell, yes. + Show Spoiler +
Putin won an election as far as anyone can tell. Pretty sure that doesn't make him legitimate?
That aside, does that make Trump's administration legitimate regardless of how illegitimately it acts?
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On January 04 2026 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 00:11 KwarK wrote:On January 04 2026 00:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution. Is Trump a legitimate president? Trump did win the election as far as anyone can tell, yes. + Show Spoiler + Putin won an election as far as anyone can tell. Pretty sure that doesn't make him legitimate? That aside, does that make Trump's administration legitimate regardless of how illegitimately it acts?
I think this is devolving into the semantics surrounding the word "legitimate".
One could use that term to mean "legally elected/appointed".
Another could use that term to mean "true".
Another could use that term to mean "something I agree with".
And so on.
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On January 04 2026 00:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 04 2026 00:11 KwarK wrote:On January 04 2026 00:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution. Is Trump a legitimate president? Trump did win the election as far as anyone can tell, yes. + Show Spoiler + Putin won an election as far as anyone can tell. Pretty sure that doesn't make him legitimate? That aside, does that make Trump's administration legitimate regardless of how illegitimately it acts? I think this is devolving into the semantics surrounding the word "legitimate". One could use that term to mean "legally elected/appointed". Another could use that term to mean "true". Another could use that term to mean "something I agree with". And so on.
That's what he's going for. To muddy the talking points to the point where you agree with him and he can beat you over the head with it in 5 years.
This country is a fucking joke and I cannot wait to gleefully watch it's destruction from within by the people fearmongering about the enemy within. They are the enemy. This administration is SGDQ to the bottom. Now, where did I place my fiddle?
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On January 04 2026 00:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 04 2026 00:11 KwarK wrote:On January 04 2026 00:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution. Is Trump a legitimate president? Trump did win the election as far as anyone can tell, yes. + Show Spoiler + Putin won an election as far as anyone can tell. Pretty sure that doesn't make him legitimate? That aside, does that make Trump's administration legitimate regardless of how illegitimately it acts? I think this is devolving into the semantics surrounding the word "legitimate". One could use that term to mean "legally elected/appointed". Another could use that term to mean "true". Another could use that term to mean "something I agree with". And so on.
"Legitimate" in this context is pretty unambiguously "in accordance with the law". That's part of why the notion that Trump is a "legitimate president" (and in some ways why Putin isn't) is a confounding contradiction.
It's not something I or most people have probably thought about that much and Trump has sorta forced us to confront it.
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On January 04 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 00:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 04 2026 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 04 2026 00:11 KwarK wrote:On January 04 2026 00:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 03 2026 23:58 KwarK wrote:On January 03 2026 23:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 03 2026 22:49 Sermokala wrote:
Crazy part is that there was just no need for this. Biden had done enough with the other nations in the carribiean to create a more profiable and more efficent oil industry with its neighbors. All Trump had to do was to present this evidence to Maduros backers and show how being friendly with the US was more profitable than being enemies.
But yeah lets just continue the cold war and make everyone hate us in the region again. I'm sure there will be no blowback for kidnapping a head of state within their own nation by military force and killing a bunch of people in the process. I have had so many discussions with friends from Chile and Argentina arguing that Russia is definitely worse than the US. I guess i stand corrected. Zelenskyy is a legitimate president whereas Maduro lost the election and refused to concede. + Show Spoiler +Half of Venezuelans fled under his rule. He did to Venezuela what the blight did to Ireland. But in any case, if intervention was to happen it should have been done through a UN resolution. Is Trump a legitimate president? Trump did win the election as far as anyone can tell, yes. + Show Spoiler + Putin won an election as far as anyone can tell. Pretty sure that doesn't make him legitimate? That aside, does that make Trump's administration legitimate regardless of how illegitimately it acts? I think this is devolving into the semantics surrounding the word "legitimate". One could use that term to mean "legally elected/appointed". Another could use that term to mean "true". Another could use that term to mean "something I agree with". And so on. "Legitimate" in this context is pretty unambiguously "in accordance with the law". That's part of why the notion that Trump is a "legitimate president" (and in some ways why Putin isn't) is a confounding contradiction. It's not something I or most people have probably thought about that much and Trump has sorta forced us to confront it.
Why is it a contradiction?
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United States43987 Posts
Different people disagree with what the law is. You haven’t addressed the problem, you’ve renamed it.
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I think that there is too much talk about international law and how the kidnapping goes against it. Leaders and experts should probably be more direct and talk about the USA being in a war with Venezuela. Kidnapping the leader of a country is an act of war, regardless of how the leader got into power. Not being clear about the act being hostile and aggressive leaves the door open to repeats. If the USA decides that the Danish government need to be removed when they oppose gifting Greenland to the USA, then why not kidnap the leadership? Maybe some of Venezuela's neighbours do not like the next leader and kidnap them? Could Russia have just kidnapped Zelensky without leading to war? Countries do not want to make situations like these seem nuanced, as it only reinforces the view that they are weak and can be run over. Why talk to Venezuela directly if you know that the USA is actually calling the shots?
If the analysis of Trump and his government is that they are just bullies and there is no intrinsic ideology to argue against, then it seems really fucking odd how so many seem to think that bullies will stop if you just let them get away with everything and only wag a finger at them, how it is not proper. Surely aspiring warlords and tyrants will see how they should act going forward.
At least I can hope that the European arms industry is willing to be bold in future, as South American markets should be booming. Larger scale makes our own stuff so much cheaper.
Edit: What are the chances that judges throw the case against Maduro out of court or view the military actions as illegal and jeopardising the case?
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Well did he just say the US is taking over Venezuela for a while and that the US oil corps are going to pump much better than the local ones and make everyone rich?
This feels like a poorly scripted movie....
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On January 04 2026 01:50 KobraKay wrote:
Well did he just say the US is taking over Venezuela for a while and that the US oil corps are going to pump much better than the local ones and make everyone rich?
This feels like a poorly scripted movie....
There are all these theories that Iraq was invaded for oil. Then Trump just says it out loud.
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Trump takes a shot at the failed Iran hostage rescue mission during the Jimmy Carter regime. Lol. In 2025, Iran was only 2 months away from having nukes. LOL. Trump was in fine form during that FOX TV audio interview. With this latest military action in Venezuela ....Trump has saved the universe... AGAIN!
After 75+ years of nuclear war 'near misses' it is hard to take any 'near miss' seriously.
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On January 04 2026 01:53 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 01:50 KobraKay wrote:
Well did he just say the US is taking over Venezuela for a while and that the US oil corps are going to pump much better than the local ones and make everyone rich?
This feels like a poorly scripted movie.... There are all these theories that Iraq was invaded for oil. Then Trump just says it out loud.
Yeah the why was/is clear I just can’t believe he openly expresses it and in this manner.
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On January 04 2026 01:53 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 01:50 KobraKay wrote:
Well did he just say the US is taking over Venezuela for a while and that the US oil corps are going to pump much better than the local ones and make everyone rich?
This feels like a poorly scripted movie.... There are all these theories that Iraq was invaded for oil. Then Trump just says it out loud.
As usual Trump is lying. He lies a lot..
On January 04 2026 01:55 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2026 01:53 PhoenixVoid wrote:On January 04 2026 01:50 KobraKay wrote:
Well did he just say the US is taking over Venezuela for a while and that the US oil corps are going to pump much better than the local ones and make everyone rich?
This feels like a poorly scripted movie.... There are all these theories that Iraq was invaded for oil. Then Trump just says it out loud. Yeah the why was/is clear I just can’t believe he openly expresses it and in this manner.
They fucked around in the middle east so that the price of oil would skyrocket. It worked for a while. Bush's Texas oil pals made a lotta money.
During the threat of invasion in 2002 the price of oil rose steadily. It went way up in 2003 and 2004. I think it was over $40 a barrel. Talk about a great time to own an oil field in NA.
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If the USA is doing what Trump said and they are taking over governing Venezuela, then how should Venezuela, their diplomats, etc., be treated now? Should Venezuela have a vote in the UN or be a member state at all? Are the diplomats now representing the USA? Would it be proper to refer to Venezuela as a vassal state or a colony of the USA? It is clear that Venezuela has lost its independence.
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Anyone arguing about any other cause other than Oil has missed the point. Trump himself has said it is about oil. The nationalization of the Venezuelan energy industry has been a pain in the side of US oil companies for decades. It is about oil, it is only about oil. Any other excuse or justification you want to talk about it is just a distraction. It is about oil and nothing else.
Trump now turns now to oil. He claims the oil business in Venezuela has been a "bust", and that large US companies are going to go into the country to fix the infrastructure and "start making money for the country".
He adds the US is "ready" to stage a second "and much larger" attack on the country if needed.
He says they were initially prepared to do a "second wave" and had assumed it would be necessary, that but given the success of last night's attack, it probably would now not be.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c5yqygxe41pt
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On January 04 2026 02:09 Vindicare605 wrote:Anyone arguing about any other cause other than Oil has missed the point. Trump himself has said it is about oil. The nationalization of the Venezuelan energy industry has been a pain in the side of US oil companies for decades. It is about oil, it is only about oil. Any other excuse or justification you want to talk about it is just a distraction. It is about oil and nothing else. Show nested quote +Trump now turns now to oil. He claims the oil business in Venezuela has been a "bust", and that large US companies are going to go into the country to fix the infrastructure and "start making money for the country".
He adds the US is "ready" to stage a second "and much larger" attack on the country if needed.
He says they were initially prepared to do a "second wave" and had assumed it would be necessary, that but given the success of last night's attack, it probably would now not be. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c5yqygxe41pt
The nationalization, was an issue back when it happened. Since the problem has been such deep and massive corruption that they didn’t even maintain it enough to work.
Here is a country that should be richer than Norway and instead can’t even cover the basics.
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Meh, the USA prolly doesn't want permanent, physical control of the oil in Venezuela. They definitely want firm control of the worldwide price of oil.
The USA is the largest producer of oil in the world and it also processes most of the oil it brings in from Canada. Obviously, the USA's biggest oil producers greatly influence policy of both the Democrats and Republicans.
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EPT
