Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
ok. 100 internet points for you. + 200 extra for consistency.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
You only have to close your eyes and then, yes indeed, ICE is just doing its job. Nothing suspicious going on at all. Well, fortunately some people are unwilling to close their eyes. Lets see what they have to say.
Oh, oops. ICE caught red-handed. Oopsie.
"Federal agents are arresting migrants at immigration courts -- in some cases after their deportation cases have been dismissed -- in the Trump administration's latest tactic to fast-track deportations, immigration attorneys have told ABC News."
On June 09 2025 14:51 Zambrah wrote: I’m gonna make this my last comment on the arguing with the completely disingenuous right wingers thing, but if you see someone arguing with a squirrel at the park, the only one who looks crazy is the person arguing with a squirrel
The real question is why tl.net lets their site be used for the spreading of this disingenious, divisive, fascistic crap.
I'm on the left, I'm not from the USA and I would have no problem with any government dealing with people in the country illegally if it was done in the correct way as prescribed by the laws of the country in question.
However, what is and has been happening in the US is quite unique.
We have a country that has had, for many decades a very fast and loose approach to illegal immigration, there is a whole shadow economy (billions of taxes paid by these people) of millions upon millions of people who come to the US for work, there is not enough (deliberately) time for the courts to process them and there are huge waiting lists. These people came to the US with this in mind, they know this is how it works for decades and they came as low paid labor, low paid exactly because of their illegal status.
Now you have a "movement" based on racism, that should be very clear to everyone, like any other right wing movement it needs an enemy and "the illegals" have been a nice little scapegoat for Republicans for all of these decades. Now it's escalating and people who welcome these folks, people who have been friends and neighbors with them for, again, decades are resisting these people who tried doing everything right, brought money into the economy and in the case of California greatly contributed to it being one of the most prosperous and biggest economies in the world are being whisked away by masked federal agents, often without any due process.
That is why people are rightfully angry, there was a social contract for decades that everyone understood and it's changing, it's OK for it to change if the country voted for that, but the way that it's being done is fucked up and people are angry.
People who do violence, burn cars and riot are, as always, completely detrimental to this and fuck them, no violence and damage to property is justified when there are peaceful means of protest available.
People who pretend like poor Republicans did everything to curb illegal immigration and evil Biden did open borders are, as usual, completely full of shit.
Republicans voted down a law supported by the president and the opposition party because their god king said they should do so so he has a political talking point for elections, so every single right wing sympathizer here who's pretending like this is all a left side problem is, as usual, completely hypocritical and full of shit.
The biggest victims are, of course, the people who came to your country, went through the actual process and didn't complete it in time so they get picked up by these vile goons while attending the process, of course, the black holes of empathy that are defending ICE here don't give a fuck because their are either brainwashed, too cynical or just straight up racist.
On June 09 2025 06:17 Introvert wrote: A few posters here are arguing that rioting and violence over the enforcement of immigration law is bad and half the other people here are doing a "I can't even" while displaying typical ignorance of how the process works. Is there an incident of left wing political violence in the past 9 months you guys haven't excused or even justified? It's almost like both sides are human and it's way too easy to echo chamber yourself into extemeism. I am beginning to be curious what happens in January of 2028 if a Republican wins.
How was the nation founded in the first place? If youse had just kept asking nicely you’d probably still be a colony. A much refined, classier people, albeit with considerably worse teeth.
I wouldn’t personally agree with a giant immigration clampdown myself, for various reasons but if it was done in a way that wasn’t well, this I’d reluctantly accept it as undesirable, but legitimate.
I’m also sure many on the wider left would not, but that’s my personal position.
As it stands, I have pretty fucking big issues with how it’s being done. I’m no expert, or even a particularly well-informed layman on the legal particulars, but plenty of judges seem to share my sentiment while lacking my ignorance of the specifics.
We seem to be having something of a flip with modern day ‘conservatism’. While I’d still frequently disagree on a moral level in some instances, and the left would desire a more malleable constitution, adherence to that document, or laws and procedures was something I’d have said was a pretty consistent belief amongst conservatives, in rhetoric and practice.
It’s not really something I can say with a straight face these days, honourable exceptions notwithstanding.
Immigration enforcement is being consistent with our laws. It's the dereliction of duty, primarily by Democrat presidents at the behest of left wing activists, that is why there is so much enforcement to be done in the first place.
A comparison to the American revolution to me counts as weakness as that's about as stained a line as one could possibly draw. Get back to me when the rioters have a continental congress or are arguing about the rights of Englishmen. Meanwhile, today we live an republic not a monarchy ruled from across the ocean. It's almost like all the nihilism I hear about on the right or the ends justify the means reasoning is just lefty projection. I might as well just shrug at the January 6 riot too I suppose?
I could keep going, but yet still no answer to my question. Maybe I could reframe it? What *would* be bad political violence, even theoretically. Anything at all?
And that dereliction of duty would be Biden deporting record numbers of illegals?
The issues of the left and protests are not because illegals are being deported after due process, but because masked men are kidnapping people off the streets.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
This is another example of someone being a hypocrite, pretending to concede a point, but not really doing so. I’m pretty sure Introvert was fine with Trump’s pardon of those people, and it’s completely obvious that what’s happening in LA is not the same as storming the Capitol in an attempted coup.
It’s obvious (and he knows it) but he manages to attempt to gaslight you into thinking that he genuinely acknowledges what happened on January 6th.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will. The problem is, at some point the death spiral needs to end. You can't have ICE going around doing whatever they feel like, and then people coming outon the streets to riot, then the national guard coming in and blasting them fools, and then more people coming out to riot because of the national guard and so on and so on. At some point the common sense thing to do is just take a breath and let everything fizzle out.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
Like nazism, imarite ?
Nope, like getting slap around really hard, and then complaining about fascist state attacking innocent...
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will. The problem is, at some point the death spiral needs to end. You can't have ICE going around doing whatever they feel like, and then people coming outon the streets to riot, then the national guard coming in and blasting them fools, and then more people coming out to riot because of the national guard and so on and so on. At some point the common sense thing to do is just take a breath and let everything fizzle out.
That is not how fascists think. They want to dominate. Giving in is impossible, compromise with an enemy is impossible. You need to grind them down to dust until they acknowledge your ultimate authority and are no longer willing to fight.
If they protest what you are doing, you beat them to a pulp. If they then protest they beating to a pulp, you bring out bigger guns, until they give up. You need to crush them for daring to resist you, to set an example for everyone else.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will. The problem is, at some point the death spiral needs to end. You can't have ICE going around doing whatever they feel like, and then people coming outon the streets to riot, then the national guard coming in and blasting them fools, and then more people coming out to riot because of the national guard and so on and so on. At some point the common sense thing to do is just take a breath and let everything fizzle out.
That is not how fascists think. They want to dominate. Giving in is impossible, compromise with an enemy is impossible. You need to grind them down to dust until they acknowledge your ultimate authority and are no longer willing to fight.
If they protest what you are doing, you beat them to a pulp. If they then protest they beating to a pulp, you bring out bigger guns, until they give up. You need to crush them for daring to resist you, to set an example for everyone else.
Yep, and all we need to do is keep pointing out that they could solve the whole thing extremely easily, by taking video of people breaking law, waiting a few days, and then arresting them.
I mean shit, Trump could tell the truth at this point and it wouldn't do any harm. "Listen we're going to send ICE every day until you stop rioting and let them do their jobs. Eventually we'll grind you down because you can't be out rioting 24/7."
On June 09 2025 06:17 Introvert wrote: A few posters here are arguing that rioting and violence over the enforcement of immigration law is bad and half the other people here are doing a "I can't even" while displaying typical ignorance of how the process works. Is there an incident of left wing political violence in the past 9 months you guys haven't excused or even justified? It's almost like both sides are human and it's way too easy to echo chamber yourself into extemeism. I am beginning to be curious what happens in January of 2028 if a Republican wins.
The Nazis don't want the law to rule, that's why they are telling the ICE agents to ignore the law and to hold, abduct and deport people without due process.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
On June 09 2025 16:42 Jankisa wrote: I'm on the left, I'm not from the USA and I would have no problem with any government dealing with people in the country illegally if it was done in the correct way as prescribed by the laws of the country in question. .....
people who tried doing everything right, brought money into the economy and in the case of California greatly contributed to it being one of the most prosperous and biggest economies in the world are being whisked away by masked federal agents, often without any due process.
Every person posting about "due process" has no idea what laws give the government what powers, and what statutes give especially ICE what authority to do what.
"Due process" is not "what I assume the process is, or what I think the process should be." That's "wanted process." If anyone believes something like the proper and only way under the law to deport someone without legal status is have a grand jury indictment, put a warrant out for their arrest, and have 12 angry men decide what their status is, not to be sentenced to deportation by a judge until after the jury votes, that person's impression is factually lacking.
The problem is people who don't know the reality of the system are confusing what they think should be the system vs. what the system is. You can want the process and system to be the above. Perfectly fine. Whatever. But when the current administration doesn't do that, you can't be so uninformed as to not understand the reason they're not doing it is not that they aren't following the law, but because the law isn't what you want or imagined it to be. There is no excuse.
The masks are immaterial. There's no law they can't wear masks. Just like there's no law that says Trump can make protestors not wear masks (Not that protesting and policing are equivalent, but for reference).
The government can detain someone until hearing and deportation. The hearing is with an immigration judge because it's a civil issue because as one side of the aisle constantly insists, illegal immigration isn't a crime (technically crossing the border outside a port of entry is a crime crime also, but that's not the main focus for this limited paragraph). There are delays compared to what's ideal - there aren't enough immigration judges to handle backlogs, so they need more funding to fill thousands more roles. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act provides funding, by happy coincidence.
The government can do expedited removals of someone within 2 weeks, in limited cases like they just crossed the border, or they reentered despite being ordered removed, without any hearing.
The government can detain someone and the person can say fuck this I don't want to wait for a hearing I want to leave now.
The government does not have to disclose arrest plans to the public. They are not obligated to show an individual case history or warrant or evidence to us kibitzers for any single detainment they do. This does not make them secret police. That's indistinguishable from normal police who also don't actually report to or are accountable to random people.
They can detain people in public places (this is referred to pejoratively as "snatching off the streets" mainly because "the streets" is where you get footage of extremists blocking government vehicles, not because they are kidnapping people off the sidewalk like a poorly produced Stranger Danger video) with an administrative warrant. They can and do use authority given by laws passed by Congress to write administrative warrants themselves, for themselves. They prefer it because getting someone at a courthouse is fucking safer for everyone than a surprise night raid at someone's house. They can and do execute judicial warrants granted by judges at private property like residences.
As Introvert has explained, LA is not about the Alien Enemies Act except inasmuch as people who support illegal immigration think everything is the Alien Enemies Act. The Alien Enemies Act is one basis for expedition of deportation of certain people, numbering in the hundreds. Those people could also be deported under other authority but the administration wants options. Courts have tentatively ruled it can be possible to invoke but needs a certain degree more notice/at least one habeas hearing.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will. The problem is, at some point the death spiral needs to end. You can't have ICE going around doing whatever they feel like, and then people coming outon the streets to riot, then the national guard coming in and blasting them fools, and then more people coming out to riot because of the national guard and so on and so on. At some point the common sense thing to do is just take a breath and let everything fizzle out.
"It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will." thats exactly what I mean.
"Whatever they like" is somewhat of a exaggeration isnt it?
I agree with you that it cannot continue (admittedly I would prefer for it to brew for few more months). I think however that you wont be a fan of the way it gets stopped, because government will come on top here and carrot is not the way they will do that.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will. The problem is, at some point the death spiral needs to end. You can't have ICE going around doing whatever they feel like, and then people coming outon the streets to riot, then the national guard coming in and blasting them fools, and then more people coming out to riot because of the national guard and so on and so on. At some point the common sense thing to do is just take a breath and let everything fizzle out.
"It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will." thats exactly what I mean.
"Whatever they like" is somewhat of a exaggeration isnt it?
I agree with you that it cannot continue (admittedly I would prefer for it to brew for few more months). I think however that you wont be a fan of the way it gets stopped, because government will come on top here and carrot is not the way they will do that.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
Ok sleep soon but...
how was the raid they were protesting "ignoring the rule of law"? ICE got a tip, got a warrant, and raided the place. What law was violated here exactly? I am sensing we are getting back to the sometimes downplayed but ever present left-wing view that there should be NO immigration enforcement at all.
People in this thread are complaining about people being disappeared but that certainly doesn't seem to have happened here and none of the gutless Democrat politicians in charge seem to be making that accusation.
Pinning what's happening on Trump is just dumb let's not go there.
These protests come from the fear that ICE will behave in LA the way they have elsewhere. They are taking people off the streets, taking people from courthouses etc etc. and generally spitting in the face of the laws and regulations they are supposed to follow. All it took was rumours that ICE were going to show up and that was enough to get people out onto the streets. That should tell you everything you need to know about the climate that has been created by ICE. Trump wants to fast track things and have ICE behaving unlawfully so more people can be deported. If you don't think there are any consequences for doing that or that it will just be ignored that's not a smart way to analyze the situation.
Bolded works both ways though.
It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will. The problem is, at some point the death spiral needs to end. You can't have ICE going around doing whatever they feel like, and then people coming outon the streets to riot, then the national guard coming in and blasting them fools, and then more people coming out to riot because of the national guard and so on and so on. At some point the common sense thing to do is just take a breath and let everything fizzle out.
"It depends on what you mean exactly. If you mean breaking the law and rioting will have consequences too, then yeah, of course it will." thats exactly what I mean.
"Whatever they like" is somewhat of a exaggeration isnt it?
I agree with you that it cannot continue (admittedly I would prefer for it to brew for few more months). I think however that you wont be a fan of the way it gets stopped, because government will come on top here and carrot is not the way they will do that.
On June 09 2025 06:17 Introvert wrote: A few posters here are arguing that rioting and violence over the enforcement of immigration law is bad and half the other people here are doing a "I can't even" while displaying typical ignorance of how the process works. Is there an incident of left wing political violence in the past 9 months you guys haven't excused or even justified? It's almost like both sides are human and it's way too easy to echo chamber yourself into extemeism. I am beginning to be curious what happens in January of 2028 if a Republican wins.
The Nazis don't want the law to rule, that's why they are telling the ICE agents to ignore the law and to hold, abduct and deport people without due process.
On June 09 2025 14:45 Doublemint wrote: that's an interesting way to argue. deflecting and intentionally missing the point while accusing the other one of that.
how are they legitimizing the ramped up ICE actions and fast tracked deportations? remind me again... it is the ALIEN ENEMIES ACT.
and Biden was - so you say - unlawful... ergo anything goes for the orange maniac and his lackeys?
the violence in LA is based on ICE actually doing not just legally questionable stuff to members of their community - but also intentionally escalating tensions.
if you cannot tell the difference and follow this trail of thought we are finished here. it's like I am talking to a child for christ's sake.
You keep bringing up the Alien Enemies Act for no reason at all, so far as I've read it had nothing to do with what ICE was doing in LA... Are you perhaps confused? What else do we call your continual references to it besides deflection or ignorance? You do know it is perfectly legal to apprehend and deport people in the country illegally under multiple other statutes? The AEA has been used in a relatively small number of cases overall.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm the one being consistent here. I said Jan 6=bad and LA riots right now=bad.
What's disturbing but less and less surprising is no one else will say the same.
The government and ICE have decided to completely ignore the rule of law. They created this situation. Do I think that burning cars and blocking roads is useful and good? No, not really. Trump has created a lawless environment and now complains that people are breaking the law. The LA riots are Trump's responsibility.
On June 09 2025 16:42 Jankisa wrote: I'm on the left, I'm not from the USA and I would have no problem with any government dealing with people in the country illegally if it was done in the correct way as prescribed by the laws of the country in question. .....
people who tried doing everything right, brought money into the economy and in the case of California greatly contributed to it being one of the most prosperous and biggest economies in the world are being whisked away by masked federal agents, often without any due process.
Every person posting about "due process" has no idea what laws give the government what powers, and what statutes give especially ICE what authority to do what.
"Due process" is not "what I assume the process is, or what I think the process should be." That's "wanted process." If anyone believes something like the proper and only way under the law to deport someone without legal status is have a grand jury indictment, put a warrant out for their arrest, and have 12 angry men decide what their status is, not to be sentenced to deportation by a judge until after the jury votes, that person's impression is factually lacking.
The problem is people who don't know the reality of the system are confusing what they think should be the system vs. what the system is. You can want the process and system to be the above. Perfectly fine. Whatever. But when the current administration doesn't do that, you can't be so uninformed as to not understand the reason they're not doing it is not that they aren't following the law, but because the law isn't what you want or imagined it to be. There is no excuse.
The masks are immaterial. There's no law they can't wear masks. Just like there's no law that says Trump can make protestors not wear masks (Not that protesting and policing are equivalent, but for reference).
The government can detain someone until hearing and deportation. The hearing is with an immigration judge because it's a civil issue because as one side of the aisle constantly insists, illegal immigration isn't a crime (technically crossing the border outside a port of entry is a crime crime also, but that's not the main focus for this limited paragraph). There are delays compared to what's ideal - there aren't enough immigration judges to handle backlogs, so they need more funding to fill thousands more roles. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act provides funding, by happy coincidence.
The government can do expedited removals of someone within 2 weeks, in limited cases like they just crossed the border, or they reentered despite being ordered removed, without any hearing.
The government can detain someone and the person can say fuck this I don't want to wait for a hearing I want to leave now.
The government does not have to disclose arrest plans to the public. They are not obligated to show an individual case history or warrant or evidence to us kibitzers for any single detainment they do. This does not make them secret police. That's indistinguishable from normal police who also don't actually report to or are accountable to random people.
They can detain people in public places (this is referred to pejoratively as "snatching off the streets" mainly because "the streets" is where you get footage of extremists blocking government vehicles, not because they are kidnapping people off the sidewalk like a poorly produced Stranger Danger video) with an administrative warrant. They can and do use authority given by laws passed by Congress to write administrative warrants themselves, for themselves. They prefer it because getting someone at a courthouse is fucking safer for everyone than a surprise night raid at someone's house. They can and do execute judicial warrants granted by judges at private property like residences.
As Introvert has explained, LA is not about the Alien Enemies Act except inasmuch as people who support illegal immigration think everything is the Alien Enemies Act. The Alien Enemies Act is one basis for expedition of deportation of certain people, numbering in the hundreds. Those people could also be deported under other authority but the administration wants options. Courts have tentatively ruled it can be possible to invoke but needs a certain degree more notice/at least one habeas hearing.
Foreign students are being arrested for protesting the US government's involvement in the Israel-Gaza conflict. All students, including foreigners, have the right to protest the US government.
EPT
