|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On March 21 2025 07:09 KwarK wrote:
Oblade arguing that Trump didn’t ever plan to repeal Obamacare when he held the Obamacare repeal vote and lost it due to McCain voting against is peak Oblade.
Obviously not the argument.
On March 21 2025 10:05 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 07:09 KwarK wrote:
Oblade arguing that Trump didn’t ever plan to repeal Obamacare when he held the Obamacare repeal vote and lost it due to McCain voting against is peak Oblade. It’s almost like their takes aren’t even worth entertaining. They transcend mere political disagreement to seemingly occupy a parallel reality It’s either trolling or lunacy. I mean they criticised the Dems for not coming together and learning to work with an ‘obvious centrist’ while entirely neglecting said obvious centrist being incredibly antagonistic from day 1 of entering this political realm.
There's only one of me.
When it comes to antagonism, Democrats went for appointment blockmaxxing and impeachments. I am saying either the Democrats lack basic political shrewdness, or their actual goals are different than their stated goals - meaning posturing has become their brand. They were on board for all of two things - criminal justice reform and COVID spending. The biggest piece of spending in US history. Obviously Trump has no problem with spending per se. If Bernie were leading Senate Democrats from 2017-2020, there would have been expanded Medicaid and reduced price gouging and insurance profits. But status quo Congressional Democrats can't even work with their own presidents on things like that. Because when it comes to healthcare, neither side (or rather, none of the sides) actually knows how to do it. They don't have the details, they don't have the expertise, and they don't have a framework to acquire and utilize the expertise. Pure repeal failed. Democrats made no effort to be part of the reform of repeal & replace, which also failed. Even after it failed, they have made no efforts to be part of further bipartisan reform, or even partisan reform when in power. They didn't try. That's their failure. This is not excused by "Drumpf is mean" because astute observers notice that his first big targets of his meanness were Bush, and the GOP.
|
Is the contention that Trump didn't do impeachable things or that he shouldn't have been impeached for them?
Trump had all branches of government last time too. If stuff got blocked, it wasn't because of the democrats. I mean, if he wanted to repeal Obamacare tomorrow, there is fuck all the Dems could about it.
|
On March 21 2025 15:26 EnDeR_ wrote:
Is the contention that Trump didn't do impeachable things or that he shouldn't have been impeached for them?
Trump had all branches of government last time too. If stuff got blocked, it wasn't because of the democrats. I mean, if he wanted to repeal Obamacare tomorrow, there is fuck all the Dems could about it.
You just don't get it.
Whenever Trump or the R's can't get their shit together, usually because 1-2 of them find something like common decency or morals... or were plain not paid enough, it's the D's fault. Like when Trump couldn't come up with any actual adjustments/solutions to "fix" Obamacare, it was clearly the D's fault.
These are not serious people and oBlade is just a very obvious example.
You can go back when Trump first ran for president and look at the reactions of the R's in this tread and basically everywhere. And how they slowly talked (well, were fed by their media echosphere) themselves into supporting Trump. The truely sad part? 4 years later it happened again, go back and look at what happened in the days after Jan 6th.
They are a cult. Many are not feverish members but they still very obviously would and do support dear leader to the end, while stating that "they don't like the guy". Reality doesn't matter anymore. All the engagement they deserve is being laughed at for being good little sheep suckling on big daddy Trumps shroom.
|
Well, where Trump leads, other despots follow. Now Israel has started annexing Gaza.www.theguardian.com
Israel minister orders army to 'seize more ground' in Gaza and threatens partial annexation
Israel’s defence minister, Israel Katz, said on Friday he ordered the military to “seize more ground” in Gaza and warned of partial annexation if Hamas does not release hostages held in the Palestinian territory, reports Agence France-Presse (AFP).
“I ordered (the army) to seize more territory in Gaza … The more Hamas refuses to free the hostages, the more territory it will lose, which will be annexed by Israel,” he said in a statement in which he threatened “permanent occupation” of “buffer zones” inside the Gaza Strip.
|
A very obvious move from Netanyahu who is totally empowered by Trump, I wonder how the "I don't vote for Kamela because genocide" voters feel.
I still suppot getting rid of iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) though, and compensation for taking land is Israeli domestic politics.
|
Northern Ireland24871 Posts
On March 21 2025 14:44 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 07:09 KwarK wrote:
Oblade arguing that Trump didn’t ever plan to repeal Obamacare when he held the Obamacare repeal vote and lost it due to McCain voting against is peak Oblade. Obviously not the argument. Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 10:05 WombaT wrote:On March 21 2025 07:09 KwarK wrote:
Oblade arguing that Trump didn’t ever plan to repeal Obamacare when he held the Obamacare repeal vote and lost it due to McCain voting against is peak Oblade. It’s almost like their takes aren’t even worth entertaining. They transcend mere political disagreement to seemingly occupy a parallel reality It’s either trolling or lunacy. I mean they criticised the Dems for not coming together and learning to work with an ‘obvious centrist’ while entirely neglecting said obvious centrist being incredibly antagonistic from day 1 of entering this political realm. There's only one of me. When it comes to antagonism, Democrats went for appointment blockmaxxing and impeachments. I am saying either the Democrats lack basic political shrewdness, or their actual goals are different than their stated goals - meaning posturing has become their brand. They were on board for all of two things - criminal justice reform and COVID spending. The biggest piece of spending in US history. Obviously Trump has no problem with spending per se. If Bernie were leading Senate Democrats from 2017-2020, there would have been expanded Medicaid and reduced price gouging and insurance profits. But status quo Congressional Democrats can't even work with their own presidents on things like that. Because when it comes to healthcare, neither side (or rather, none of the sides) actually knows how to do it. They don't have the details, they don't have the expertise, and they don't have a framework to acquire and utilize the expertise. Pure repeal failed. Democrats made no effort to be part of the reform of repeal & replace, which also failed. Even after it failed, they have made no efforts to be part of further bipartisan reform, or even partisan reform when in power. They didn't try. That's their failure. This is not excused by "Drumpf is mean" because astute observers notice that his first big targets of his meanness were Bush, and the GOP.
The lack of bipartisanship is increasingly the most bipartisan facet of US politics and governance.
I don’t think you’ll get many arguments against the proposition the Dems absolutely are contributors to this too, nor that they’re internally fractured, nor that oftentimes they simply don’t even really try to do x y or z when they have the position and the numbers.
They’re reasonable enough points, but in service of a much less palatable argument, that Trump is some reasonable, centrist bloke who’s just itching to work across the aisle.
His entire political brand is antagonism, it defines how he and his administration operate.
|
On March 21 2025 22:27 KT_Elwood wrote:
A very obvious move from Netanyahu who is totally empowered by Trump, I wonder how the "I don't vote for Kamela because genocide" voters feel.
I still suppot getting rid of iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) though, and compensation for taking land is Israeli domestic politics.
I believe one of GreenHydra's many heads - or perhaps all 3 (4? 5? how many are there now?) could answer that.
|
at this point just unban danglars, he was less unhinged. "dems went for appointment blockmaxxing" when the whole one year block on obama appointing to the SC happened.
|
On March 21 2025 22:27 KT_Elwood wrote:A very obvious move from Netanyahu who is totally empowered by Trump, I wonder how the "I don't vote for Kamela because genocide" voters feel. + Show Spoiler +I still suppot getting rid of iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) though, and compensation for taking land is Israeli domestic politics.
On March 21 2025 22:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 22:27 KT_Elwood wrote:
A very obvious move from Netanyahu who is totally empowered by Trump, I wonder how the "I don't vote for Kamela because genocide" voters feel.
I still suppot getting rid of iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) though, and compensation for taking land is Israeli domestic politics. I believe one of GreenHydra's many heads - or perhaps all 3 (4? 5? how many are there now?) could answer that.
GH: Like I didn't support genocide?
Validated that Democrats have been wrong since at least 2015 about the direction of the party (really the entire Third Way experiment has collectively been maybe the worst political mistake of our lives). Pissed that we all have to deal with Trump because of their stubborn hubris. Sad/disappointed that Democrats and their supporters are so genocidal.
How do the people that supported/rationalized genocide just to lose to Trump anyway feel?
|
On March 21 2025 17:40 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 15:26 EnDeR_ wrote:
Is the contention that Trump didn't do impeachable things or that he shouldn't have been impeached for them?
Trump had all branches of government last time too. If stuff got blocked, it wasn't because of the democrats. I mean, if he wanted to repeal Obamacare tomorrow, there is fuck all the Dems could about it. You just don't get it. Whenever Trump or the R's can't get their shit together, usually because 1-2 of them find something like common decency or morals... or were plain not paid enough, it's the D's fault. Like when Trump couldn't come up with any actual adjustments/solutions to "fix" Obamacare, it was clearly the D's fault. These are not serious people and oBlade is just a very obvious example. You can go back when Trump first ran for president and look at the reactions of the R's in this tread and basically everywhere. And how they slowly talked (well, were fed by their media echosphere) themselves into supporting Trump. The truely sad part? 4 years later it happened again, go back and look at what happened in the days after Jan 6th. They are a cult. Many are not feverish members but they still very obviously would and do support dear leader to the end, while stating that "they don't like the guy". Reality doesn't matter anymore. All the engagement they deserve is being laughed at for being good little sheep suckling on big daddy Trumps shroom.
GH: This seems to be a remarkably accurate description of Democrats as well.
Democrats are the reason the US doesn't have universal healthcare. Their supporters spent most of 2024 proudly proclaiming they'd vote for a genocidal guy they insisted they didn't like, even if they knew for certain he was actually a corpse. Both parties are plenty cultish.
|
On March 21 2025 22:27 KT_Elwood wrote:
A very obvious move from Netanyahu who is totally empowered by Trump, I wonder how the "I don't vote for Kamela because genocide" voters feel.
I still suppot getting rid of iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) though, and compensation for taking land is Israeli domestic politics.
I would wonder even more how the Democrats who pledged full support for Israel feel now that they sacrificed their democracy for supporting genocide. If those voters were so important, losing them was a massive mistake. Also, I doubt that the Democrats have a huge voting base that would abandon them for not supporting genocide. Well, at least I doubt they would leave them to vote for Trump. If they did, surely they would be laughed at for voting for Musk Salute.
It is important to remember that Netanyahu was in power last year and had already killed tens of thousands of Palestinians with full support from the Democrats. The idea that they would oppose moving Gazans or the continuation of the genocide is simply naive. Blaming people who did not vote for a candidate they view as supporting genocide is just vile. Most likely, those voters did not matter at all, and now they are just used as scapegoats while Democrats act surprised how Israel could do this.
On another note, the idea that the Democrats were holding Israel back is like saying that, thanks to you, your friend only brutally maimed and sexually assaulted the victim instead of killing them. It only highlights how complicit you are with your support and involvement.
|
Equally, 'but the Dems just didn't do enough to get my vote' is unhelpful, to say the least. It was a trolley problem and people chose to not pull the lever (aka vote) when it was clear that not pulling the lever was the choice that would lead to the most suffering.
|
On March 21 2025 23:35 Legan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 22:27 KT_Elwood wrote:
A very obvious move from Netanyahu who is totally empowered by Trump, I wonder how the "I don't vote for Kamela because genocide" voters feel.
I still suppot getting rid of iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) though, and compensation for taking land is Israeli domestic politics.
I would wonder even more how the Democrats who pledged full support for Israel feel now that they sacrificed their democracy for supporting genocide. If those voters were so important, losing them was a massive mistake. Also, I doubt that the Democrats have a huge voting base that would abandon them for not supporting genocide. Well, at least I doubt they would leave them to vote for Trump. If they did, surely they would be laughed at for voting for Musk Salute. It is important to remember that Netanyahu was in power last year and had already killed tens of thousands of Palestinians with full support from the Democrats. The idea that they would oppose moving Gazans or the continuation of the genocide is simply naive. Blaming people who did not vote for a candidate they view as supporting genocide is just vile. Most likely, those voters did not matter at all, and now they are just used as scapegoats while Democrats act surprised how Israel could do this. On another note, the idea that the Democrats were holding Israel back is like saying that, thanks to you, your friend only brutally maimed and sexually assaulted the victim instead of killing them. It only highlights how complicit you are with your support and involvement.
Ok dude. Hows Gaza coming along these days? Lmao at this nonsense. It was a binary choice. Trump or Harris. Any vote that wasnt for Harris was a vote for Trump. Its a 2 party system. There may have not been a great or perfect choice but there certainly was a horrific choice and we are seeing the results of that now.
|
I mean, this is the result of inaction (i.e. not voting Harris):
www.theguardian.com
He said the army “will intensify the fight with aerial, naval and ground shelling as well as by expanding the ground operation”, which he said would include implementing Donald Trump’s proposal to turn Gaza into a resort after the relocation of its Palestinian inhabitants to other Arab countries.
It was clearly a shitty choice. Let the bigger disaster happen but have a clear conscience, or mitigate the damage and be complicit in the suffering of some Palestinians. There was no third option.
|
No one was complicit. It literally was a trolly problem except even more people die if you dont pull the lever.
|
On March 22 2025 01:35 Sadist wrote:
No one was complicit. It literally was a trolly problem except even more people die if you dont pull the lever.
Pulling the lever is the complicit part, i.e. you took action and that's different from inaction in a moral sense. This is the reason why this is a moral dilemma.
|
On March 22 2025 01:32 EnDeR_ wrote:I mean, this is the result of inaction (i.e. not voting Harris): www.theguardian.comShow nested quote +He said the army “will intensify the fight with aerial, naval and ground shelling as well as by expanding the ground operation”, which he said would include implementing Donald Trump’s proposal to turn Gaza into a resort after the relocation of its Palestinian inhabitants to other Arab countries. It was clearly a shitty choice. Let the bigger disaster happen but have a clear conscience, or mitigate the damage and be complicit in the suffering of some Palestinians. There was no third option. Choosing not to act so the bigger disaster happens is a clear conscience?
No
The people who were not allowed to vote can claim a clear conscience because they had no power to influence the outcome, everyone else had a choice.
On March 22 2025 01:52 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2025 01:35 Sadist wrote:
No one was complicit. It literally was a trolly problem except even more people die if you dont pull the lever.
Pulling the lever is the complicit part, i.e. you took action and that's different from inaction in a moral sense. This is the reason why this is a moral dilemma. Choosing to ignore the choice is an action. Your no less complicit for making it.
|
I don't disagree and I am honestly a bit tired of this discussion - it's like the 100th time we re-hash the same argument. For me it's clear that avoiding the greater disaster is the better choice, I'd vote Harris 10 times out 10 in this scenario.
We are where we are though.
|
On March 21 2025 14:44 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 07:09 KwarK wrote:
Oblade arguing that Trump didn’t ever plan to repeal Obamacare when he held the Obamacare repeal vote and lost it due to McCain voting against is peak Oblade. Obviously not the argument. Show nested quote +On March 21 2025 10:05 WombaT wrote:On March 21 2025 07:09 KwarK wrote:
Oblade arguing that Trump didn’t ever plan to repeal Obamacare when he held the Obamacare repeal vote and lost it due to McCain voting against is peak Oblade. It’s almost like their takes aren’t even worth entertaining. They transcend mere political disagreement to seemingly occupy a parallel reality It’s either trolling or lunacy. I mean they criticised the Dems for not coming together and learning to work with an ‘obvious centrist’ while entirely neglecting said obvious centrist being incredibly antagonistic from day 1 of entering this political realm. There's only one of me.
Hey! I'm Fleetfeet, He/him. I see you've been triggered by the polite action of offering gender-neutral pronouns in absence of your preferred pronouns. Perhaps there's something you could do to rectify this?
|
Trump really seems to want to make everything about himself, eh? Now with an F-47 announcement lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
