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On January 30 2025 16:15 Jockmcplop wrote: I just saw a report that said the 15 states that rely most on federal funding for education to keep their schools open voted for Trump, and are now panicking because he wants to stop the department of education from funding schools.
Teachers will lose their jobs, class sizes will go up and the quality of education will take a huge hit.
The Trump voting teachers can scarcely believe what it is they actually voted for. They are terrified for the future under Trump now.
It goes to show how powerful sloganing like "America First" can be. It can convince people to vote for policies that obviously make America worse, that were public knowledge and of actual interest to these particular voters.
Crazy.
"Education". These are the people teaching kids and then turn around and ask what the problem is and why children are less prepared for the world. I grew up during the 90s-00s and it was way better education system. Not great, but I entered adulthood with enough "knowledge" to function. These kids are phucked.
What was the difference between your experience and your perception of it nowadays?
My sister is 15 years younger than me, and Minibat is 27 and in general there’s been changes made that I felt covered holes in my education, and there’s few areas I think I got the better deal.
Granted I’m not over in ye olde States
It's a small sample size and anecdotal, but I can say my niece and nephew seem to be worse off in terms of common sense/core knowledge. Home Ec isn't a thing so they don't know how to be independent. Science doesn't seem to be taught because I've never heard them mention or seen them interested in any aspect of it. English...well...yeah. That's out of the window.
I guess the biggest thing I've noticed is that they don't value the "education" they're getting. Their curiosity doesn't seem existent at all. Now, I've met teens who seem to be on the ball and I don't have a doubt they'll "succeed" in life. So maybe it's balancing out.
On January 30 2025 16:15 Jockmcplop wrote: I just saw a report that said the 15 states that rely most on federal funding for education to keep their schools open voted for Trump, and are now panicking because he wants to stop the department of education from funding schools.
Teachers will lose their jobs, class sizes will go up and the quality of education will take a huge hit.
The Trump voting teachers can scarcely believe what it is they actually voted for. They are terrified for the future under Trump now.
It goes to show how powerful sloganing like "America First" can be. It can convince people to vote for policies that obviously make America worse, that were public knowledge and of actual interest to these particular voters.
Crazy.
Proponents state this is short term chaos for long term benefit. If the ideological propaganda to which these institutions adhere in their operations runs contrary to the outlined directives they lose their funding. meh.
These days educational institutions hold far less relevance. Unless you're entering a profession ... You can learn on your own. Even then some professions can now be entered with a lot less government sponsored education.
Overall, the US education system must be overhauled because it is producing some of the fattest most unhealthy children of any 1st world country. Blow It Up Donald!
Trump has been under a microscope for 10 years and has increased in popularity because he has done a decent job so far. During that same time period PM Justin Trudeau sounds very soothing and diplomatic while he led Canada to a very steady decline. By contrast, Trump is abrasive, bombastic and full of bluster. Style doesn't really matter though... all that matters are the results. I'm reasonably satisfied with Trump's performance so far.
Regarding your comment about powerful slogans... Trump is promising the sun, the moon, and the stars to Americans. If Trump can deliver the kind of economic growth and quality of life improvements for average people that Reagan did I'll be more than "reasonably satisfied" with The Donald. However, Trump has yet to do that. It is really smart of Trump to adopt Reagan's "Make American Great Again" slogan.
The issue here is that education reform is complicated -- simply blowing it up isn't going to fix it. This idea that "you can learn on your own" feels like it's coming from a position of privilege; this is not a thing anyone who is barely managing to stay afloat amidst a cost of living polycrisis will be able to achieve. Basically, it will simply widen the achievement gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. I appreciate that this may not necessarily be a concern to you, although it really should as increasing inequality also leads to more crime, worse standards of living, etc.
Efficiency under Trump's administration is when overworked people get relieved of their burden by getting fired. It's alternative efficiency.
I also think that their idea of efficiency is merely spending less and using fewer people, with no regard for whether or not that actually makes the system more efficient. The system still needs to work as well as (or better than) it did with those "unnecessary" people and "bloated" spending. If you cut costs and fire people, and then the system collapses or doesn't function properly, then you've made it less efficient and considerably worse off than how it used to be. Cheaper is not always better; less staff is not always better.
It's not their idea of efficiency, they know what they're doing. The idea is to make it collapse and then say "welp, government is bad at this, time to cut this service off completely and let the market sort it out".
On January 30 2025 16:15 Jockmcplop wrote: I just saw a report that said the 15 states that rely most on federal funding for education to keep their schools open voted for Trump, and are now panicking because he wants to stop the department of education from funding schools.
Teachers will lose their jobs, class sizes will go up and the quality of education will take a huge hit.
The Trump voting teachers can scarcely believe what it is they actually voted for. They are terrified for the future under Trump now.
It goes to show how powerful sloganing like "America First" can be. It can convince people to vote for policies that obviously make America worse, that were public knowledge and of actual interest to these particular voters.
Crazy.
Proponents state this is short term chaos for long term benefit. If the ideological propaganda to which these institutions adhere in their operations runs contrary to the outlined directives they lose their funding. meh.
These days educational institutions hold far less relevance. Unless you're entering a profession ... You can learn on your own. Even then some professions can now be entered with a lot less government sponsored education.
Overall, the US education system must be overhauled because it is producing some of the fattest most unhealthy children of any 1st world country. Blow It Up Donald!
Trump has been under a microscope for 10 years and has increased in popularity because he has done a decent job so far. During that same time period PM Justin Trudeau sounds very soothing and diplomatic while he led Canada to a very steady decline. By contrast, Trump is abrasive, bombastic and full of bluster. Style doesn't really matter though... all that matters are the results. I'm reasonably satisfied with Trump's performance so far.
Regarding your comment about powerful slogans... Trump is promising the sun, the moon, and the stars to Americans. If Trump can deliver the kind of economic growth and quality of life improvements for average people that Reagan did I'll be more than "reasonably satisfied" with The Donald. However, Trump has yet to do that. It is really smart of Trump to adopt Reagan's "Make American Great Again" slogan.
The issue here is that education reform is complicated -- simply blowing it up isn't going to fix it. This idea that "you can learn on your own" feels like it's coming from a position of privilege; this is not a thing anyone who is barely managing to stay afloat amidst a cost of living polycrisis will be able to achieve. Basically, it will simply widen the achievement gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. I appreciate that this may not necessarily be a concern to you, although it really should as increasing inequality also leads to more crime, worse standards of living, etc.
Efficiency under Trump's administration is when overworked people get relieved of their burden by getting fired. It's alternative efficiency.
I also think that their idea of efficiency is merely spending less and using fewer people, with no regard for whether or not that actually makes the system more efficient. The system still needs to work as well as (or better than) it did with those "unnecessary" people and "bloated" spending. If you cut costs and fire people, and then the system collapses or doesn't function properly, then you've made it less efficient and considerably worse off than how it used to be. Cheaper is not always better; less staff is not always better.
It's not their idea of efficiency, they know what they're doing. The idea is to make it collapse and then say "welp, government is bad at this, time to cut this service off completely and let the market sort it out".
You're right. I guess I was thinking more in terms of how it's being marketed to suckers as something good, and/or how those suckers are being convinced that what's being done is automatically increasing efficiency.
On January 30 2025 16:15 Jockmcplop wrote: I just saw a report that said the 15 states that rely most on federal funding for education to keep their schools open voted for Trump, and are now panicking because he wants to stop the department of education from funding schools.
Teachers will lose their jobs, class sizes will go up and the quality of education will take a huge hit.
The Trump voting teachers can scarcely believe what it is they actually voted for. They are terrified for the future under Trump now.
It goes to show how powerful sloganing like "America First" can be. It can convince people to vote for policies that obviously make America worse, that were public knowledge and of actual interest to these particular voters.
Crazy.
Proponents state this is short term chaos for long term benefit. If the ideological propaganda to which these institutions adhere in their operations runs contrary to the outlined directives they lose their funding. meh.
These days educational institutions hold far less relevance. Unless you're entering a profession ... You can learn on your own. Even then some professions can now be entered with a lot less government sponsored education.
Overall, the US education system must be overhauled because it is producing some of the fattest most unhealthy children of any 1st world country. Blow It Up Donald!
Trump has been under a microscope for 10 years and has increased in popularity because he has done a decent job so far. During that same time period PM Justin Trudeau sounds very soothing and diplomatic while he led Canada to a very steady decline. By contrast, Trump is abrasive, bombastic and full of bluster. Style doesn't really matter though... all that matters are the results. I'm reasonably satisfied with Trump's performance so far.
Regarding your comment about powerful slogans... Trump is promising the sun, the moon, and the stars to Americans. If Trump can deliver the kind of economic growth and quality of life improvements for average people that Reagan did I'll be more than "reasonably satisfied" with The Donald. However, Trump has yet to do that. It is really smart of Trump to adopt Reagan's "Make American Great Again" slogan.
The issue here is that education reform is complicated -- simply blowing it up isn't going to fix it. This idea that "you can learn on your own" feels like it's coming from a position of privilege; this is not a thing anyone who is barely managing to stay afloat amidst a cost of living polycrisis will be able to achieve. Basically, it will simply widen the achievement gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. I appreciate that this may not necessarily be a concern to you, although it really should as increasing inequality also leads to more crime, worse standards of living, etc.
Efficiency under Trump's administration is when overworked people get relieved of their burden by getting fired. It's alternative efficiency.
I also think that their idea of efficiency is merely spending less and using fewer people, with no regard for whether or not that actually makes the system more efficient. The system still needs to work as well as (or better than) it did with those "unnecessary" people and "bloated" spending. If you cut costs and fire people, and then the system collapses or doesn't function properly, then you've made it less efficient and considerably worse off than how it used to be. Cheaper is not always better; less staff is not always better.
It's not their idea of efficiency, they know what they're doing. The idea is to make it collapse and then say "welp, government is bad at this, time to cut this service off completely and let the market sort it out".
You're right. I guess I was thinking more in terms of how it's being marketed to suckers as something good, and/or how those suckers are being convinced that what's being done is automatically increasing efficiency.
Thats why they gut education, so people don't know better and are easily convinced by populists just throwing out bullshit solutions that can't work.
On January 30 2025 16:15 Jockmcplop wrote: I just saw a report that said the 15 states that rely most on federal funding for education to keep their schools open voted for Trump, and are now panicking because he wants to stop the department of education from funding schools.
Teachers will lose their jobs, class sizes will go up and the quality of education will take a huge hit.
The Trump voting teachers can scarcely believe what it is they actually voted for. They are terrified for the future under Trump now.
It goes to show how powerful sloganing like "America First" can be. It can convince people to vote for policies that obviously make America worse, that were public knowledge and of actual interest to these particular voters.
Crazy.
Proponents state this is short term chaos for long term benefit. If the ideological propaganda to which these institutions adhere in their operations runs contrary to the outlined directives they lose their funding. meh.
These days educational institutions hold far less relevance. Unless you're entering a profession ... You can learn on your own. Even then some professions can now be entered with a lot less government sponsored education.
Overall, the US education system must be overhauled because it is producing some of the fattest most unhealthy children of any 1st world country. Blow It Up Donald!
Trump has been under a microscope for 10 years and has increased in popularity because he has done a decent job so far. During that same time period PM Justin Trudeau sounds very soothing and diplomatic while he led Canada to a very steady decline. By contrast, Trump is abrasive, bombastic and full of bluster. Style doesn't really matter though... all that matters are the results. I'm reasonably satisfied with Trump's performance so far.
Regarding your comment about powerful slogans... Trump is promising the sun, the moon, and the stars to Americans. If Trump can deliver the kind of economic growth and quality of life improvements for average people that Reagan did I'll be more than "reasonably satisfied" with The Donald. However, Trump has yet to do that. It is really smart of Trump to adopt Reagan's "Make American Great Again" slogan.
The issue here is that education reform is complicated -- simply blowing it up isn't going to fix it. This idea that "you can learn on your own" feels like it's coming from a position of privilege; this is not a thing anyone who is barely managing to stay afloat amidst a cost of living polycrisis will be able to achieve. Basically, it will simply widen the achievement gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. I appreciate that this may not necessarily be a concern to you, although it really should as increasing inequality also leads to more crime, worse standards of living, etc.
Efficiency under Trump's administration is when overworked people get relieved of their burden by getting fired. It's alternative efficiency.
I also think that their idea of efficiency is merely spending less and using fewer people, with no regard for whether or not that actually makes the system more efficient. The system still needs to work as well as (or better than) it did with those "unnecessary" people and "bloated" spending. If you cut costs and fire people, and then the system collapses or doesn't function properly, then you've made it less efficient and considerably worse off than how it used to be. Cheaper is not always better; less staff is not always better.
It's not their idea of efficiency, they know what they're doing. The idea is to make it collapse and then say "welp, government is bad at this, time to cut this service off completely and let the market sort it out".
You're right. I guess I was thinking more in terms of how it's being marketed to suckers as something good, and/or how those suckers are being convinced that what's being done is automatically increasing efficiency.
Thats why they gut education, so people don't know better and are easily convinced by populists just throwing out bullshit solutions that can't work.
The US has engaged in a bipartisan capitalist effort to create easily manipulated consumer addicts alongside bipartisan cooperation in crushing any alternative parties for decades. This is just the US approaching the culmination of their efforts.
On January 30 2025 16:15 Jockmcplop wrote: I just saw a report that said the 15 states that rely most on federal funding for education to keep their schools open voted for Trump, and are now panicking because he wants to stop the department of education from funding schools.
Teachers will lose their jobs, class sizes will go up and the quality of education will take a huge hit.
The Trump voting teachers can scarcely believe what it is they actually voted for. They are terrified for the future under Trump now.
It goes to show how powerful sloganing like "America First" can be. It can convince people to vote for policies that obviously make America worse, that were public knowledge and of actual interest to these particular voters.
Crazy.
"Education". These are the people teaching kids and then turn around and ask what the problem is and why children are less prepared for the world. I grew up during the 90s-00s and it was way better education system. Not great, but I entered adulthood with enough "knowledge" to function. These kids are phucked.
What was the difference between your experience and your perception of it nowadays?
My sister is 15 years younger than me, and Minibat is 27 and in general there’s been changes made that I felt covered holes in my education, and there’s few areas I think I got the better deal.
Granted I’m not over in ye olde States
It's a small sample size and anecdotal, but I can say my niece and nephew seem to be worse off in terms of common sense/core knowledge. Home Ec isn't a thing so they don't know how to be independent. Science doesn't seem to be taught because I've never heard them mention or seen them interested in any aspect of it. English...well...yeah. That's out of the window.
I guess the biggest thing I've noticed is that they don't value the "education" they're getting. Their curiosity doesn't seem existent at all. Now, I've met teens who seem to be on the ball and I don't have a doubt they'll "succeed" in life. So maybe it's balancing out.
I have a lot of trouble objectively comparing my Millennial education to the education of Gen Z and Gen Alpha students. I feel that every adult or parent has a ton of bias and cherry-picking when it goes into making that evaluation, and I think it heavily depends on the state, district, school, and teacher.
In general, I think you're right that Home Economics is less prevalent nowadays, which is probably not good, but Personal Finance is more prevalent nowadays, which is probably good.
There are plenty of new, useful technologies that exist for me as a teacher, that didn't exist when I was a student... but that doesn't mean they can't be exploited or abused or a waste of time if teachers or students don't know what they're doing.
It likely depends on the subject, too. As a high school math teacher, I'm a little bit more insulated from insane "controversies" like religious nutjobs trying to force Biblical Creationism into science curricula, or bigots trying to whitewash history class, or social conservatives trying to ban English books that feature queer characters. I think it's a lot easier for me to stand on the shoulders of my old math teachers, while incorporating new math skills and strategies that I've learned and practiced, and actually implement them without quite as much political red tape. The jumping-through-hoops and bureaucracy are inevitable, of course, like needing to deal with standardized tests and administrative oversight, but those also existed 20 years ago when my parents were teachers, and I think my students might end up being in a slightly better position to learn (whether they're high-achieving, low-achieving, or somewhere in the middle) than my graduating high school class of 2006.
In response to your comments about curiosity and valuing education: I have students at all levels who are highly motivated to learn, and students at all levels who are extremely disinterested (usually because of things going on in their personal/family/work lives that I have no control over). That spectrum undoubtedly existed 20 years ago too.
I don't think education today can be compared 1:1 to education from generations ago. Times were different. Not only was there a much smaller income/wealth gap, people were also far less exposed to harmful distractions and substances that would rob people of their finances or hurt their health.
How do you educate people towards fiber and micronutrients and away from calorie dense foods in a landscape that's filled to the brim with the latter and not the former? How do you get people towards exercise and away from hyper-addictive gacha games?
The personal vices of the past used to be alcohol, tobacco and drugs. While that was really bad, it affected a much smaller portion of people and it wouldn't so easily drain their bank accounts. Educating people away from vices requires new methods because they're now accessible at home. The press of a button while in bed can make people poor. It's wild how easy it is.
Teaching people to manage such a landscape is vastly different. The past is the past, it's no longer so relevant. People have new problems that need new solutions. Instead of blaming education, maybe we should blame the sources of addiction.
On January 31 2025 02:04 Magic Powers wrote: I don't think education today can be compared 1:1 to education from generations ago. Times were different. Not only was there a much smaller income/wealth gap, people were also far less exposed to harmful distractions and substances that would rob people of their finances or hurt their health.
How do you educate people towards fiber and micronutrients and away from calorie dense foods in a landscape that's filled to the brim with the latter and not the former? How do you get people towards exercise and away from hyper-addictive gacha games?
The personal vices of the past used to be alcohol, tobacco and drugs. While that was really bad, it affected a much smaller portion of people and it wouldn't so easily drain their bank accounts. Educating people away from vices requires new methods because they're now accessible at home. The press of a button while in bed can make people poor. It's wild how easy it is.
Teaching people to manage such a landscape is vastly different. The past is the past, it's no longer so relevant. People have new problems that need new solutions. Instead of blaming education, maybe we should blame the sources of addiction.
Post WWII US capitalism looked at Nazi Germany and thought "what if we manipulated people like that but instead of Nazis we made them consumers?". It went on to spend unimaginable amounts of time, money, research, and political power on developing and implementing the psychology/science of manipulation with the ultimate goal of producing easily manipulated consumers and the media to control them with.
Just think about how much of the US economy is only advertising things we don't want or need to convince us that we do and that we're lesser than if don't have/get them. How much money is spent purposely driving up mental illness to push people to consume as a way to treat that mental illness? A little retail therapy anyone?
Loot boxes and skin FOMO/envy is teaching children this capitalist nightmare as a rule early.
Capitalists are fundamentally incapable of fixing this because it is an inextricable inevitability of capitalism. It's socialism or bust and anyone refusing to get on board with that and start moving is undeniably part of the problem from my perspective.
After the first airline crash in the US in 15 years I’m reminded of Biden trying to nominate someone to lead the FAA that knew basically nothing about aviation
Ultimately he withdrew his nomination but even the fact that he was nominated is startling to me. Nobody cares about merit and competency anymore.
I’ll try to preempt any whataboutism by linking this post of mine.
On January 31 2025 03:20 BlackJack wrote: After the first airline crash in the US in 15 years I’m reminded of Biden trying to nominate someone to lead the FAA that knew basically nothing about aviation
I think there's certainly red tape to updating education curriculum, as there should be. But the world is just changing too fast. The simple example is what is taught as history often times isn't even as relevant as the history we are living in.
On January 31 2025 03:57 Byo wrote: I think there's certainly red tape to updating education curriculum, as there should be. But the world is just changing too fast. The simple example is what is taught as history often times isn't even as relevant as the history we are living in.
A few things are unique in the current history such as extremely rapid communication and travel. Apart from that not much has really changed. People are still people and you can learn from what happened in the past if you investigate why more than that it did.
On an individual basis life has changed a lot. But as a society I don't really see it. Demagogues existed millennia ago and they still do now. The playbook is a tad more optimized but not much has changed.
The recent experiment with democracy and human rights is a big shift. But it is too early to see if it will survive for any historically worthwhile time period.
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WKRN) — In a 26-7 vote, state senators approved SB6002 Wednesday, which will create criminal penalties (Class E felony) for officials who adopt sanctuary policies. According to the bill’s text, officials can also be removed upon conviction.
State Rep. Justin Jones (D-Nashville) spoke during the hearing. He said he believes the bill is unconstitutional and restricts lawmakers’ ability to represent their constituents.
“Now this is the only time we are going to have a Tennessee law that says if you vote in the affirmative, you will be charged with a felony,” said Jones.
Trump blamed the aerial collision on, among other things, dwarfs.
We do not know what led to this crash but we have some very strong opinions and ideas. …. The FAA website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism all qualified for the position of a controller of air planes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot. A little dot on the map. A runway.
It’s not currently clear why the dwarfs crashed the plane or what their agenda is but there’s one thing that is clear, DEI is to blame.
We do not know what led to this crash but we have some very strong opinions and ideas. …. The FAA website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism all qualified for the position of a controller of air planes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot. A little dot on the map. A runway.
It’s not currently clear why the dwarfs crashed the plane or what their agenda is but there’s one thing that is clear, DEI is to blame.
Dwarfs are known to live underground and dig for gold, so they are not very good with sky stuff.
We do not know what led to this crash but we have some very strong opinions and ideas. …. The FAA website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism all qualified for the position of a controller of air planes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot. A little dot on the map. A runway.
It’s not currently clear why the dwarfs crashed the plane or what their agenda is but there’s one thing that is clear, DEI is to blame.
Immigants! DEI, I knew it was that! Even when it was the bears CRT, I knew it was that.
What happened to not using a tragedy to push a political agenda eh? Like it’s absolutely indecent to talk about gun reforms while the bodies in the latest classroom/club/cinema/backgammon tournament are still warm, but this is grand of course…
From my limited understanding/reading here 1. The FAA had staff shortages they were looking to fill, they weren’t trying to diversify to diversify, but to plug gaps. 2. What Trump was referencing wasn’t specific to air traffic controller gigs, but more general FAA positions.
I remain to be corrected, if dwarves with limited vision, suffering from complete paralysis and psychiatric problems were manning air traffic controller spots, that would be ridiculous.
Something tells me that’s not the case though. I’m not sure what, as Trump is usually accurate and honest on details and earnestly maintaining context.
We do not know what led to this crash but we have some very strong opinions and ideas. …. The FAA website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism all qualified for the position of a controller of air planes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot. A little dot on the map. A runway.
It’s not currently clear why the dwarfs crashed the plane or what their agenda is but there’s one thing that is clear, DEI is to blame.
EPT
