EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4529
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
| ||
|
r00ty
Germany1070 Posts
 In other news this morning: Russia attacking you as we speak. Mysterious series of fires in mail facilities over Europe connected to Russia trying to firebomb cargo planes heading to the US... But their your friend right? | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6965 Posts
I honestly saw Trump winning after surviving those two murder attemps.The guy has been censored everywhere. Put on trial so many times. The first time he won elections i thought he was lucky. Looks like americans really trust him afterall. | ||
|
Azuzu
United States340 Posts
On November 06 2024 14:27 Vindicare605 wrote: What's it say about the Democrats that they've managed to lose this dirt bag twice Kwark? You're so quick to throw names at all the people you don't like when I've never once heard you talk about how the Democrats keep doing things wrong and that's why they lose. Being the "better option" doesn't mean a fucking thing if you can't get your message across to the people you need to reach, either by bringing them to the polls in the numbers you need or by convincing enough people in the middle that you in fact ARE the better option. The Democrats have failed so miserably at this that they're going to lose to Donald Trump twice. If all they ever do is keep pointing blame at the other side and never do any kind of fixing of their own house, they'll always only ever be the "lesser of two evils" party that people don't actually want to vote for. I know for damn sure I don't vote for Democrats because I want to, I vote for them because I don't feel like I have any other choice in the matter. I don't blame people for being apathetic about the entire process or only voting in their own selfish interests when the only "good option" is so lukewarm at best. I think it says a lot more about people and especially our current media landscape than Democrats. Not that it says nothing of Democrats, I just believe there was not a set of policies that Democrats could have placed front and center and significantly increased odds of victory this election because this election wasn't about policy and I would argue neither of the last 2 elections have a damn thing to do about policy either. Strategically, Democrats are not taking many of steps Republicans do to take winning in our current system seriously: Why aren't the Democrats actively cultivating spoiler candidates? Why are Democrats running minority candidates? Why aren't Democrat billionaires buying up media companies, local broadcasting companies, and other mass influence operations? Why aren't Democrats currently building massive support that this election was stolen? Why aren't the Democrats actively driving wedge issues via infiltration of Republican media sources to fracture Republican cohesion? Why do Democrats allow themselves to be easily fractured by *every* wedge issue unlike Republicans who decide on a course and stick to it no matter how ridiculous? Why cling to reality for your spin on issues to make your opponent look bad? If you purely care about winning, these are obvious steps to take. Literally zero policy changes needed. Of course, the answer is trying to maintain any shred of credibility, responsibility, and integrity. Those virtues don't win you elections any more than policies though. I also believe they did a lot of things right this election, not that anyone cares if you ultimately lose. Back to the people and media landscape: 1. Propoganda is real and it works. It's a lesson learned many times throughout history - it's not just that you're tricked by a lie, it drags a persons entire belief system into a new framework. From my family members to people in this thread, many people's values have changed significantly due to pull of Trump's influence. Many even admit they see things differently know but they view they're current beliefs as the correct ones. Every issue is viewed through a lens based on literally thousands of hours of Fox News or similar baked into their brain. They may never even hear another viewpoint from non-spun source, much less actually consider it. The case and point is how right wing media reacts to fact checking. 2. People are incredibly impatient - assuming that inflation could instantly be tackled for instance and scoring Republicans higher on the economy than Biden is pretty ridiculous. Perhaps if Biden failed to tackle inflation it would be understandable, but no. People are programmed to reactively blame whoever is in charge at the time. Trump was a victim of this too. Even if the response to Covid were better, there still was a disastrous pandemic and Biden would have benefited thanks to it. In a sense, this is the "incumbent disadvantage" I've seen referenced in this thread. Disasters occur and it's the governments job to deal with them and I can't see the current Republican ruling apparatus able to tackle them effectively. Perhaps the blame they receive for things they aren't responsible for will be the silver lining for the all the terrible things they'll do. | ||
|
Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
We managed to barely keep an NDP government in BC. At least Trudeau didn't really burn bridges with the USA, it's a hold your nose type of deal. Lucky Trump though, he inherits two of the best economies built in the last twenty years. Maybe a Walz/Harris ticket would've done better, old white guy vs old white guy instead of gambling on people voting for a woman, and a minority. | ||
|
iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
| ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23949 Posts
| ||
|
Azuzu
United States340 Posts
On November 06 2024 14:27 Vindicare605 wrote: What's it say about the Democrats that they've managed to lose this dirt bag twice Kwark? You're so quick to throw names at all the people you don't like when I've never once heard you talk about how the Democrats keep doing things wrong and that's why they lose. Being the "better option" doesn't mean a fucking thing if you can't get your message across to the people you need to reach, either by bringing them to the polls in the numbers you need or by convincing enough people in the middle that you in fact ARE the better option. The Democrats have failed so miserably at this that they're going to lose to Donald Trump twice. If all they ever do is keep pointing blame at the other side and never do any kind of fixing of their own house, they'll always only ever be the "lesser of two evils" party that people don't actually want to vote for. I know for damn sure I don't vote for Democrats because I want to, I vote for them because I don't feel like I have any other choice in the matter. I don't blame people for being apathetic about the entire process or only voting in their own selfish interests when the only "good option" is so lukewarm at best. I think it says a lot more about people and especially our current media landscape than Democrats. Not that it says nothing of Democrats, I just believe there was not a set of policies that Democrats could have placed front and center and significantly increased odds of victory this election because this election wasn't about policy and I would argue neither of the last 2 elections have a damn thing to do about policy either. Strategically, Democrats are not taking many of steps Republicans do to take winning in our current system seriously: Why aren't the Democrats actively cultivating spoiler candidates? Why are Democrats running minority candidates? Why aren't Democrat billionaires buying up media companies, local broadcasting companies, and other mass influence operations? Why aren't Democrats currently building massive support that this election was stolen? Why aren't the Democrats actively driving wedge issues via infiltration of Republican media sources to fracture Republican cohesion? Why do Democrats allow themselves to be easily fractured by *every* wedge issue unlike Republicans who decide on a course and stick to it no matter how ridiculous? Why cling to reality for your spin on issues to make your opponent look bad? If you purely care about winning, these are obvious steps to take. Literally zero policy changes needed. Of course, the answer is trying to maintain any shred of credibility, responsibility, and integrity. Those virtues don't win you elections any more than policies though. I also believe they did a lot of things right this election, not that anyone cares if you ultimately lose. Back to the people and media landscape: 1. Propoganda is real and it works. It's a lesson learned many times throughout history - it's not just that you're tricked by a lie, it drags a persons entire belief system into a new framework. From my family members to people in this thread, many people's values have changed significantly due to pull of Trump's influence. Many even admit they see things differently know but they view they're current beliefs as the correct ones. Every issue is viewed through a lens based on literally thousands of hours of Fox News or similar baked into their brain. They may never even hear another viewpoint from non-spun source, much less actually consider it. The case and point is how right wing media reacts to fact checking. 2. People are incredibly impatient - assuming that inflation could instantly be tackled for instance and scoring Republicans higher on the economy than Biden is pretty ridiculous. Perhaps if Biden failed to tackle inflation it would be understandable, but no, he actually fucking pulled it off. People are programmed to reactively blame whoever is in charge at the time. Trump was a victim of this too. Even if the response to Covid were better, there still was a disastrous pandemic and Biden would have benefited thanks to it. In a sense, this is the "incumbent disadvantage" I've seen referenced in this thread. Disasters occur and it's the governments job to deal with them and I can't see the current Republican ruling apparatus able to tackle them effectively. Perhaps the blame they receive for things they aren't responsible for will be the silver lining for the all the terrible things they'll do. | ||
|
Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
Why aren't Democrats currently building massive support that this election was stolen? Kinda hard if the result is a massive blowout like this. Trump is gonna win the popular vote as well as most of the swing states. It's not a close result. | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On November 06 2024 15:41 GreenHorizons wrote: Cue Democrats learning absolutely fucking nothing of value from this loss. They never do. They never fucking do. | ||
|
Azuzu
United States340 Posts
On November 06 2024 15:42 Laurens wrote: Kinda hard if the result is a massive blowout like this. Trump is gonna win the popular vote as well as most of the swing states. It's not a close result. What do you think the current Republican party would do if it was Trump losing in this way? Walk quietly into the night or insist that this vote tally was more proof it was rigged? | ||
|
Introvert
United States4951 Posts
On November 06 2024 15:42 Laurens wrote: Kinda hard if the result is a massive blowout like this. Trump is gonna win the popular vote as well as most of the swing states. It's not a close result. All depends on cali, if the minority voter shift carries over in California then yes. But California non-white voters are much more Democratic than those in other states. | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23949 Posts
On November 06 2024 15:44 Vindicare605 wrote: They never do. They never fucking do. On the bright side, the country will be so fixed they'll never have to worry about voting again EDIT: So far they sound like fireworks btw. + Show Spoiler + On November 06 2024 09:59 GreenHorizons wrote: *Trying to distinguish the explosions outside* "Are those celebratory, purge-y, or both?" | ||
|
r00ty
Germany1070 Posts
The factory in my town is a very likely target and this would directly delete 10.000 high salary jobs out of a town of 300.000 people. Not even counting suppliers and the ones relying on those high payed workers. We're gonna get rust belted. | ||
|
iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
On November 06 2024 15:52 r00ty wrote: I'll be fine but the effects of this will be hard for a lot of people around me. The Volkswagen company basically announced having to close down a factory or two in Germany a couple of months ago. A 20% tarrif in the US should seal the deal. The factory in my town is a very likely target and this would directly delete 10.000 high salary jobs out of a town of 300.000 people. Not even counting suppliers and the ones relying on those high payed workers. We're gonna get rust belted. It's mostly due to high electricity and energy prices making industry uncompetitive, due to Ukraine war and shutting down coal/nuclear power plants and using unreliable renewable energy and gas.Also why the UK has the highest electricity prices in the developed world. Hopefully Trump follows through, no more funds for corrupt Ukraine and lets try to end the war.It's been highly inflationary for both energy and foodstuffs. | ||
|
Ryzel
United States550 Posts
Not that this should bring a substantial amount of comfort of course, life will still fucking suck for the bottom 50%. But, as an example, a truly fascist US would be less profitable than the current setup, and those that care about said profits will act to keep them. | ||
|
Taelshin
Canada420 Posts
| ||
|
Azuzu
United States340 Posts
On November 06 2024 16:01 Ryzel wrote: There's only so much those with real power (Warren Buffet / Bloomberg types, owners of Blackrock, etc.) will allow someone like Trump to change US policy. There are lots of powerful people who have a lot to lose from US global hegemony deteriorating, and they're not just going to sit back and let the dollar collapse and global trade be bogged down. Republican politicians are loyal to Trump, but they're even more loyal to their donors, and once they get their leashes yanked they'll start howling. Many people thought this of the oligarchs in Russia as well. But perhaps they'll have more influence here.... | ||
|
Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
It won't be easy to accept 4 more years of Drumpf in daily news. | ||
|
r00ty
Germany1070 Posts
On November 06 2024 15:58 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: It's mostly due to high electricity and energy prices making industry uncompetitive, due to Ukraine war and shutting down coal/nuclear power plants and using unreliable renewable energy and gas.Also why the UK has the highest electricity prices in the developed world. Hopefully Trump follows through, no more funds for corrupt Ukraine and lets try to end the war.It's been highly inflationary for both energy and foodstuffs. Most people here are fine with suffering for Ukraine and realise that a Putin win is much worse for everyone in Europe in the long term, even just economically. He is not a reliable partner. Cheap gas would be nice again, but we don't want a dictator to control the supply as he pleases to leverage his goals which are opposing to ours. | ||
| ||
