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On July 17 2022 00:39 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2022 00:31 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:26 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:18 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:03 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 23:45 Zambrah wrote:On July 16 2022 01:35 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 01:22 Zambrah wrote:Joe Manchin continues to prove his worth by declaring he won’t support any climate spending or tax increases for the wealthy. He’s going to make sure he tanks Democrats for the midterms as hard as he can. He’s such a genuine asset to the Democrats and I’m soooo glad they’re not even trying to whip him into shape. Democrats are a highly competent party that cares so very deeply for curing the many ills infecting America. Long past time to stop relying on him and to adjust any electoral focus towards other states, for however long that’s even worth given the state of the US in the wake of an aggressive Republican Supreme Court. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/07/14/manchin-climate-tax-bbb/
To win over Manchin, Democrats already had agreed to surrender their most prized spending proposals, from offering paid family and medical leave to providing child care, free prekindergarten and tax benefits to low-income Americans. But their cuts still proved insufficient for the austerity-minded moderate, who in recent days grew ever more skittish amid reports of record-high prices.
Of course they are trying to whip him saying otherwise is silly. I’ll buy that when I see him removed as the chair of the Energy and Natural Resources committee. Why is he obstructing the Democrats agenda on energy (among a cavalcade of other things) and allowed to remain as the committee’s chairman? He’s being a colossal spoiler in a Democrat senate and making his colleagues look like inept morons and he’s allowed to keep all of his committee seats? If they’re whipping him they’re doing the most utterly piss poor job possible. If you thought of him like he is, a moderate Republican, you would have much less stress. The options where he is are moderate Rep or batshit crazy Trumper. You can not think that there could be a more left dem their. It is not possible. How is any of this related to whipping because you need leverage to whip someone in your system. The Dems have none on Manchin because it is him or worse. Or how do you think it works? Your anger should be at the WV voters since Machin is actually left of most of them, and anyone left of Manchin would lose. No point scapegoating because that solves nothing. No, they have leverage because Manchin has all sorts of committee appointments you could take away from him and give to someone who actually supports the party’s policy in those areas. You have a Democrats preemptive quitter mindset of “there’s nothing to do so just accept it,” and I firmly disavow that mentality. There are always levers to pull in government and even if they might not work it’s better than sitting around not even trying like Democrats do. Republicans are happy to throw their weight around on things even if they lose, Democrats don’t even bother trying. You think that if they did that he would vote with them or Run red next election? His electorate does not want what you want, that is the problem. I do not get how this comes up like every 2 months and people post all sorts of stats about how much a difference he actually makes in as far as voting left of his voters and then you just keep disregarding it and pretend like if just the Dems "whipped" harder all his votes would line up and there would be no negative consequences.
He’s doing such a good job voting with them right now, I see your point!
You still laboring under the delusion that American politicians actively give a shit about what their electorate wants is also baffling to me, people have linked endless polls and popular things in this country are well and proven to not be enacted unless its also convenient for moneyed interests, see the ACA.
I want Democrats to whip him at fucking all, all they do is compromise with him endlessly only for him to go “eh never mind fuck you.”
I’ve reiterated countlessly how he acts as a net loss by depressing turnout and making every other Democrat look inept and powerless.
Fucking. TRY.
Why are you so allergic to trying? Why would you rather do nothing and fail instead of trying and failing? Where does this mentality come from?
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On July 17 2022 01:18 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2022 01:08 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:39 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:31 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:26 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:18 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:03 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 23:45 Zambrah wrote:On July 16 2022 01:35 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 01:22 Zambrah wrote:Joe Manchin continues to prove his worth by declaring he won’t support any climate spending or tax increases for the wealthy. He’s going to make sure he tanks Democrats for the midterms as hard as he can. He’s such a genuine asset to the Democrats and I’m soooo glad they’re not even trying to whip him into shape. Democrats are a highly competent party that cares so very deeply for curing the many ills infecting America. Long past time to stop relying on him and to adjust any electoral focus towards other states, for however long that’s even worth given the state of the US in the wake of an aggressive Republican Supreme Court. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/07/14/manchin-climate-tax-bbb/[quote] Of course they are trying to whip him saying otherwise is silly. I’ll buy that when I see him removed as the chair of the Energy and Natural Resources committee. Why is he obstructing the Democrats agenda on energy (among a cavalcade of other things) and allowed to remain as the committee’s chairman? He’s being a colossal spoiler in a Democrat senate and making his colleagues look like inept morons and he’s allowed to keep all of his committee seats? If they’re whipping him they’re doing the most utterly piss poor job possible. If you thought of him like he is, a moderate Republican, you would have much less stress. The options where he is are moderate Rep or batshit crazy Trumper. You can not think that there could be a more left dem their. It is not possible. How is any of this related to whipping because you need leverage to whip someone in your system. The Dems have none on Manchin because it is him or worse. Or how do you think it works? Your anger should be at the WV voters since Machin is actually left of most of them, and anyone left of Manchin would lose. No point scapegoating because that solves nothing. No, they have leverage because Manchin has all sorts of committee appointments you could take away from him and give to someone who actually supports the party’s policy in those areas. You have a Democrats preemptive quitter mindset of “there’s nothing to do so just accept it,” and I firmly disavow that mentality. There are always levers to pull in government and even if they might not work it’s better than sitting around not even trying like Democrats do. Republicans are happy to throw their weight around on things even if they lose, Democrats don’t even bother trying. You think that if they did that he would vote with them or Run red next election? His electorate does not want what you want, that is the problem. I do not get how this comes up like every 2 months and people post all sorts of stats about how much a difference he actually makes in as far as voting left of his voters and then you just keep disregarding it and pretend like if just the Dems "whipped" harder all his votes would line up and there would be no negative consequences. He’s doing such a good job voting with them right now, I see your point! You still laboring under the delusion that American politicians actively give a shit about what their electorate wants is also baffling to me, people have linked endless polls and popular things in this country are well and proven to not be enacted unless its also convenient for moneyed interests, see the ACA. I want Democrats to whip him at fucking all, all they do is compromise with him endlessly only for him to go “eh never mind fuck you.” I’ve reiterated countlessly how he acts as a net loss by depressing turnout and making every other Democrat look inept and powerless. Fucking. TRY. Why are you so allergic to trying? Why would you rather do nothing and fail instead of trying and failing? Where does this mentality come from? So whats your logic, that they are too dumb to figure out this simple whipping concept? Or are evil secret council that pretends to want things but uses manchin to block them? Not that Manchin is voting the way that keeps in him power and the dems are willing to deal with it because the options otger than him are way way worse. It is so crazy tot hink they are not trying to convimce him. It makes them look bad. Think this through logically.
Convincing is not whipping, they negotiate with him constantly, but they don’t ever threaten to remove him from key committee positions because Democrats are enormous cowards who are too afraid to try because trying might fail.
You miss every shot you don’t take and Democrats are fucking petrified of the damn ball.
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Northern Ireland25342 Posts
On July 17 2022 01:18 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2022 01:08 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:39 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:31 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:26 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:18 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:03 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 23:45 Zambrah wrote:On July 16 2022 01:35 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 01:22 Zambrah wrote:Joe Manchin continues to prove his worth by declaring he won’t support any climate spending or tax increases for the wealthy. He’s going to make sure he tanks Democrats for the midterms as hard as he can. He’s such a genuine asset to the Democrats and I’m soooo glad they’re not even trying to whip him into shape. Democrats are a highly competent party that cares so very deeply for curing the many ills infecting America. Long past time to stop relying on him and to adjust any electoral focus towards other states, for however long that’s even worth given the state of the US in the wake of an aggressive Republican Supreme Court. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/07/14/manchin-climate-tax-bbb/[quote] Of course they are trying to whip him saying otherwise is silly. I’ll buy that when I see him removed as the chair of the Energy and Natural Resources committee. Why is he obstructing the Democrats agenda on energy (among a cavalcade of other things) and allowed to remain as the committee’s chairman? He’s being a colossal spoiler in a Democrat senate and making his colleagues look like inept morons and he’s allowed to keep all of his committee seats? If they’re whipping him they’re doing the most utterly piss poor job possible. If you thought of him like he is, a moderate Republican, you would have much less stress. The options where he is are moderate Rep or batshit crazy Trumper. You can not think that there could be a more left dem their. It is not possible. How is any of this related to whipping because you need leverage to whip someone in your system. The Dems have none on Manchin because it is him or worse. Or how do you think it works? Your anger should be at the WV voters since Machin is actually left of most of them, and anyone left of Manchin would lose. No point scapegoating because that solves nothing. No, they have leverage because Manchin has all sorts of committee appointments you could take away from him and give to someone who actually supports the party’s policy in those areas. You have a Democrats preemptive quitter mindset of “there’s nothing to do so just accept it,” and I firmly disavow that mentality. There are always levers to pull in government and even if they might not work it’s better than sitting around not even trying like Democrats do. Republicans are happy to throw their weight around on things even if they lose, Democrats don’t even bother trying. You think that if they did that he would vote with them or Run red next election? His electorate does not want what you want, that is the problem. I do not get how this comes up like every 2 months and people post all sorts of stats about how much a difference he actually makes in as far as voting left of his voters and then you just keep disregarding it and pretend like if just the Dems "whipped" harder all his votes would line up and there would be no negative consequences. He’s doing such a good job voting with them right now, I see your point! You still laboring under the delusion that American politicians actively give a shit about what their electorate wants is also baffling to me, people have linked endless polls and popular things in this country are well and proven to not be enacted unless its also convenient for moneyed interests, see the ACA. I want Democrats to whip him at fucking all, all they do is compromise with him endlessly only for him to go “eh never mind fuck you.” I’ve reiterated countlessly how he acts as a net loss by depressing turnout and making every other Democrat look inept and powerless. Fucking. TRY. Why are you so allergic to trying? Why would you rather do nothing and fail instead of trying and failing? Where does this mentality come from? So whats your logic, that they are too dumb to figure out this simple whipping concept? Or are evil secret council that pretends to want things but uses manchin to block them? Not that Manchin is voting the way that keeps in him power and the dems are willing to deal with it because the options otger than him are way way worse. It is so crazy tot hink they are not trying to convimce him. It makes them look bad. Think this through logically.
Well largely they don’t appear to be.
Look at the Republicans. Sadly it’s an often insane line, but they toe the fucking line.
If Manchin largely toed the line and diverged from the Dems for issues of particular importance to his constituents that’s one thing.
He diverges on almost every other issue. Part of party politics is party discipline. Figure it out.
The Republicans have, it’s how they push things through even if they don’t have the broad support of the average citizen.
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Republicans are also way way better at running candidates everywhere, Democrats leave shit tons of seats unopposed because of their “trying too scart so we won’t bother” mentality.
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Democrats strategy of shaming people into believing that the way to get what they want is to vote for people that oppose it is as impressive as it is perverse.
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Northern Ireland25342 Posts
On July 17 2022 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
Democrats strategy of shaming people into believing that the way to get what they want is to vote for people that oppose it is as impressive as it is perverse.
Remarkable in its relative effectiveness too.
I’m basically diametrically opposed to the Republicans on almost every issue, but if I wasn’t, hey they’re doing the things I want.
The Dems will simultaneously do none of the things I want while claiming they’re the only path to get those things done.
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Northern Ireland25342 Posts
If the seat you win basically rarely votes in your corner what’s the gain there?
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I’d recommend abandoning Joe Manchin so that his constant spoilering doesnt fuck over the rest of those competitive races.
Do you seriously think that his insistence that the Democrats accomplish nothing has a positive or even a neutral influence on the other important elections?
Do you believe that Democrats look good and worth voting for when they have a House and Senate Majority and have two senators that constantly sabotage them?
Joe Manchin is a big fat fucking net negative and he needs to be cut so that Democrats have some semblance of a shot at actually looking even just a wee bit worth voting for.
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Fucking Joe Manchin paints the rest of the damn Democrats based on him by being a constant obstructionist
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Northern Ireland25342 Posts
Nobody here, to my knowledge has claimed a progressive could carry West Virginia
Basically all the complaints are the lack of cracking the whip to get Manchin to play ball, and with the lack thereof you may as well have a Republican.
The Republicans can do this, almost invariably for the worse. It’s a borderline pre-requisite that political viability encompasses claiming the election was stolen at this point.
The Dems can’t whip a singular Senator into aligning with the party platform on innumerable issues.
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On July 17 2022 01:34 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2022 01:18 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 01:08 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:39 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:31 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:26 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2022 00:18 Zambrah wrote:On July 17 2022 00:03 JimmiC wrote:On July 16 2022 23:45 Zambrah wrote:On July 16 2022 01:35 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
Of course they are trying to whip him saying otherwise is silly. I’ll buy that when I see him removed as the chair of the Energy and Natural Resources committee. Why is he obstructing the Democrats agenda on energy (among a cavalcade of other things) and allowed to remain as the committee’s chairman? He’s being a colossal spoiler in a Democrat senate and making his colleagues look like inept morons and he’s allowed to keep all of his committee seats? If they’re whipping him they’re doing the most utterly piss poor job possible. If you thought of him like he is, a moderate Republican, you would have much less stress. The options where he is are moderate Rep or batshit crazy Trumper. You can not think that there could be a more left dem their. It is not possible. How is any of this related to whipping because you need leverage to whip someone in your system. The Dems have none on Manchin because it is him or worse. Or how do you think it works? Your anger should be at the WV voters since Machin is actually left of most of them, and anyone left of Manchin would lose. No point scapegoating because that solves nothing. No, they have leverage because Manchin has all sorts of committee appointments you could take away from him and give to someone who actually supports the party’s policy in those areas. You have a Democrats preemptive quitter mindset of “there’s nothing to do so just accept it,” and I firmly disavow that mentality. There are always levers to pull in government and even if they might not work it’s better than sitting around not even trying like Democrats do. Republicans are happy to throw their weight around on things even if they lose, Democrats don’t even bother trying. You think that if they did that he would vote with them or Run red next election? His electorate does not want what you want, that is the problem. I do not get how this comes up like every 2 months and people post all sorts of stats about how much a difference he actually makes in as far as voting left of his voters and then you just keep disregarding it and pretend like if just the Dems "whipped" harder all his votes would line up and there would be no negative consequences. He’s doing such a good job voting with them right now, I see your point! You still laboring under the delusion that American politicians actively give a shit about what their electorate wants is also baffling to me, people have linked endless polls and popular things in this country are well and proven to not be enacted unless its also convenient for moneyed interests, see the ACA. I want Democrats to whip him at fucking all, all they do is compromise with him endlessly only for him to go “eh never mind fuck you.” I’ve reiterated countlessly how he acts as a net loss by depressing turnout and making every other Democrat look inept and powerless. Fucking. TRY. Why are you so allergic to trying? Why would you rather do nothing and fail instead of trying and failing? Where does this mentality come from? So whats your logic, that they are too dumb to figure out this simple whipping concept? Or are evil secret council that pretends to want things but uses manchin to block them? Not that Manchin is voting the way that keeps in him power and the dems are willing to deal with it because the options otger than him are way way worse. It is so crazy tot hink they are not trying to convimce him. It makes them look bad. Think this through logically. Well largely they don’t appear to be. Look at the Republicans. Sadly it’s an often insane line, but they toe the fucking line. If Manchin largely toed the line and diverged from the Dems for issues of particular importance to his constituents that’s one thing. He diverges on almost every other issue. Part of party politics is party discipline. Figure it out. The Republicans have, it’s how they push things through even if they don’t have the broad support of the average citizen.
Like that time they whipped McCain into voting to repeal the ACA right? The Republicans didn't pass any more major legislation than the current government with their majority when Trump was president.
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I remember that time the Republican Party all fell in line to support trumpism, and election lies, and all of that shit
Imagine if Democrats treated Manchin how Republicans treat Liz Cheney.
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On July 17 2022 05:18 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2022 03:39 Zambrah wrote:
I remember that time the Republican Party all fell in line to support trumpism, and election lies, and all of that shit
Imagine if Democrats treated Manchin how Republicans treat Liz Cheney. They would not get the vote and get a full trumper in his place. Wow progressives have really gotten ahead. Im your mind has cheney stepped in ljne? Wtf logic is this.
The logic is when Republicans DO step out of line they get fucking shit over it in order to either drive out the weak link or ensure they tow the damn line.
Let WV have its fucking Trumper, as Ive sad ad fucking nauseum before WV isnt going to be anything but red when Manchin dies or leaves office anyways, so please tell me
why do you want to fuck over all of the other Democrat races in order to protect one Senate seat for like a decade tops?
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On July 17 2022 03:39 Zambrah wrote:
I remember that time the Republican Party all fell in line to support trumpism, and election lies, and all of that shit
Imagine if Democrats treated Manchin how Republicans treat Liz Cheney.
The problem with your logic is that Cheney's senate seat is a 20 point favorite for the Trumper to win. If Swearengin was a 20 point favorite instead of a 40 point loser democrats would do the same thing to Manchin?
On July 17 2022 05:28 Zambrah wrote:
why do you want to fuck over all of the other Democrat races in order to protect one Senate seat for like a decade tops?
Citation needed that the only thing stopping a progressive movement in this country is giving the Machin seat to Republicans.
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Here’s your chance at a crack at this,
Do you seriously think that his insistence that the Democrats accomplish nothing has a positive or even a neutral influence on the other important elections?
Do you believe that Democrats look good and worth voting for when they have a House and Senate Majority and have two senators that constantly sabotage them?
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United States42692 Posts
On July 17 2022 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
Democrats strategy of shaming people into believing that the way to get what they want is to vote for people that oppose it is as impressive as it is perverse.
You don’t vote Democrat to get left wing politics. You recognize that America is a right wing country on the verge of falling into full blown fascism and that voting right wing staves off the mass extrajudicial killings for a few more years.
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EPT
