EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3529
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
You don't have to believe that this is a plot or a conspiracy or that even anyone intended for this to happen, but that's what happened and what's happening. In fact, I don't think anyone disagrees that it's happening, some people just think it's good for some reason. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26315 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:25 Jerubaal wrote: My simple thesis is that the entire Democrat agenda will enrich the rich and impoverish everyone else. Everything else is a distraction meant to divide us. Make consumer goods more expensive by raising the cost of energy. Suffocate anyone who doesn't go along via ESG scores. The lockdowns were an enormous "transfer of wealth" as they say as tech and big businesses actually benefitted while smaller and local businesses suffered, many of them never to open again. You don't have to believe that this is a plot or a conspiracy or that even anyone intended for this to happen, but that's what happened and what's happening. In fact, I don't think anyone disagrees that it's happening, some people just think it's good for some reason. So capitalism basically? I mean that’s just what happens with capitalism. Oh quel surprise the rich win again! What is the alternative pathway in preventing this, given the whole, actual pandemic thing. And indeed now the Russo-Ukrainian conflict that’s bound to have significant knock-on effects | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
The thing that disappoints me is that Republicans lauded Trump as he dragged their dirty laundry into the public sphere, and "told it like it is" by telling you exactly how he was swindling taxpayers as he did it, and then act like this is a phenomenon particular to Democrats. You owe yourself better. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:23 Severedevil wrote: If it's "our" shit you're shoving, why are you showing your whole ass? I'm trying to respond with as many concrete examples as I can. Meanwhile, I'm getting responses like this. It's hard being the only person here. You pretty much ran off anyone else (including me to a large extent) who wasn't willing to goose-step your party line. Now you just occasionally get a low post count person who wants to say something provocative and then give the bird. @WombaT You know, when I was in my early teens, I always wondered why Democrats always called Republicans racist. There weren't really even racial issues. So Republicans are racist because they don't like affirmative action? To bury the lead some more, you may have heard of something called the Southern Strategy which is a supposed Republican political strategy to win southern states by appealing to white racial animosity, essentially sacrificing black votes to secure white ones. Now there's a lot of debate over whether this really lines up historically or was ever implemented in a meaningful way. But this is an interesting topic because of its converse...it's readily apparent to any observer that racebaiting is part and parcel of the Democrat political messaging. How many examples do I need to bring up? You can see it on this forum. It's so strong that, as many black Americans have attested, there is strong pressure in the black community to not vote Republican lest you be seen as trying to be white. Personally, I think Democrats cynically prey on the situation of black Americans and fetishize them to use as a political shield, but I don't automatically accuse every person who has a Left wing view of this. So please, if you would, show a little grace to someone who is likely just very frustrated. | ||
KwarK
United States43642 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:25 Jerubaal wrote: My simple thesis is that the entire Democrat agenda will enrich the rich and impoverish everyone else. Everything else is a distraction meant to divide us. Make consumer goods more expensive by raising the cost of energy. Suffocate anyone who doesn't go along via ESG scores. The lockdowns were an enormous "transfer of wealth" as they say as tech and big businesses actually benefitted while smaller and local businesses suffered, many of them never to open again. You don't have to believe that this is a plot or a conspiracy or that even anyone intended for this to happen, but that's what happened and what's happening. In fact, I don't think anyone disagrees that it's happening, some people just think it's good for some reason. It’s not a very good thesis. There’s a lot wrong with it. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:44 Jerubaal wrote: I'm trying to respond with as many concrete examples as I can. Meanwhile, I'm getting responses like this. It's hard being the only person here. You pretty much ran off anyone else (including me to a large extent) who wasn't willing to goose-step your party line. Now you just occasionally get a low post count person who wants to say something provocative and then give the bird. It's just a marketplace of ideas, my dude. If your shit's not selling, get a better product. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:16 WombaT wrote: Are there racists on TL? By the law of averages almost certainly. If they post racist bile on TL, are they immediately banned? Also yes. Is TL a racist organisation because it has racists posting under its banner? Well no, because they get banned if they make themselves known. I assume you see where I’m going with this analogy I can admit that I'm racist.I know of and are related to a lot of racists. See guys no one gives a shit. If someone confronts you with "dude that's racist" just don't double down on it and try to examine what you did and what you could do better. Its not difficult, you don't need to define yourself by "I'm not racist" and ruin any other part of your thoughts and feelings that makes you a human being. Having flaws as a person is normal and accepted, so long as you can accept that they are flaws. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
1. The Ukraine part does not flow well with the rest of it. I can forgive that for being a last-minute addition to what is otherwise a long-drafted speech. 2. The part about inflation seems utterly delusional. "We'll fix inflation by promoting good jobs at home." Yeah, that's like saying "we'll fix that gaping chest wound with good nutrition and plenty of exercise." I guess admitting that we're in a debt-inflation trap isn't very good for a pep talk. 3. It reminds me a lot of the Obama speeches. Wording, content, and all. I bet they share writing staff. 4. The pandemic part was pretty good. 5. He talked a lot about fighting cancer, but didn't make mention of the Ford Ord situation. Not surprised, but it would have been nice. 6. Otherwise standard fare. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26315 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:44 Jerubaal wrote: I'm trying to respond with as many concrete examples as I can. Meanwhile, I'm getting responses like this. It's hard being the only person here. You pretty much ran off anyone else (including me to a large extent) who wasn't willing to goose-step your party line. Now you just occasionally get a low post count person who wants to say something provocative and then give the bird. @WombaT You know, when I was in my early teens, I always wondered why Democrats always called Republicans racist. There weren't really even racial issues. So Republicans are racist because they don't like affirmative action? To bury the lead some more, you may have heard of something called the Southern Strategy which is a supposed Republican political strategy to win southern states by appealing to white racial animosity, essentially sacrificing black votes to secure white ones. Now there's a lot of debate over whether this really lines up historically or was ever implemented in a meaningful way. But this is an interesting topic because of its converse...it's readily apparent to any observer that racebaiting is part and parcel of the Democrat political messaging. How many examples do I need to bring up? You can see it on this forum. It's so strong that, as many black Americans have attested, there is strong pressure in the black community to not vote Republican lest you be seen as trying to be white. Personally, I think Democrats cynically prey on the situation of black Americans and fetishize them to use as a political shield, but I don't automatically accuse every person who has a Left wing view of this. So please, if you would, show a little grace to someone who is likely just very frustrated. I don’t think you’re wrong with the last parts, the Democratic Party is very good at paying just enough lip service without meaningful action to various minority groups. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26315 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:52 Sermokala wrote: I can admit that I'm racist.I know of and are related to a lot of racists. See guys no one gives a shit. If someone confronts you with "dude that's racist" just don't double down on it and try to examine what you did and what you could do better. Its not difficult, you don't need to define yourself by "I'm not racist" and ruin any other part of your thoughts and feelings that makes you a human being. Having flaws as a person is normal and accepted, so long as you can accept that they are flaws. Indeed. Ignorance is, to me a valid excuse, the first time something’s pointed out. Within reason obviously. If you persist with behaviour that’s been pointed out already as problematic, it’s not so much some gap in knowledge, it’s a flaw in your being that you’re happy not to work on fixing. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:34 Starlightsun wrote: And what agenda do Republicans have to combat climate change? There's a lot interesting in this. For one, it seems, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're saying "if they come up with a big enough crisis, I'll happily sign all my rights away." This is another subject that seems to be an article of faith. On the whole, I don't profess to be an expert, but it seems like there's no way out but through. If the whole world is going to die in 10 years (or is it 50 years?), it's too late. The 3rd world isn't going to stop polluting. China is only getting behind the "green energy" because they are the ones making all the solar panels. This green energy will stagnate the economy and bring technological innovation to a screeching halt. Techonology is getting better and better all the time. And if you really think we are all about to die because of global warming but absolutely refuse to use nuclear energy...you're a charlatan as far as I'm concerned. On March 02 2022 12:43 NewSunshine wrote: Yeah, no shit the Democrats will look for ways to enrich themselves via mechanisms that favor the rich, and distract the poor so they can't pay attention. Because with a few exceptions in the political sphere, they're all fucking doing it. The upper class definitely. The thing that disappoints me is that Republicans lauded Trump as he dragged their dirty laundry into the public sphere, and "told it like it is" by telling you exactly how he was swindling taxpayers as he did it, and then act like this is a phenomenon particular to Democrats. You owe yourself better. I understand you're in NI, but the American economy in 2018 was going absolutely gangbusters. We had levels of unemployment that were thought impossible. We had record earnings for minority groups like blacks and Hispanics. But Paul "I'm literally wrong about everything" Krugman told me tax cuts were bad m'kay. On March 02 2022 12:49 JimmiC wrote: To believe what you do, you almost have to believe that Covid is fake, or is not worse than the flu. And when you believe something that wrong the rest of assumptions that tie to it also are extremely wrong. This is why "alternative facts" are so bad, because they are not that, they are lies. I don't. And this is the problem with so many of these issues- Covid, global warming. Do you see how insane it is that these are treated as matters of religion? It's actually hilarious listening to Democrats say the same things that every reasonable person was saying years ago- Protect yourself if you're vulnerable, including vaccine, masking, quarantine; everyone else is probably fine- as if they are the reasonable people and not the ones stoking hysteria. It's really hard to imagine them overhyping this more than they did. Meanwhile, almost weekly, we get more and more evidence that almost everything we did was useless. Lockdowns weren't that effective, masks aren't that effective, social distancing might as well be essential oils on chakra beads, and, of course, the holy grail of vaccines. And remember that whole lab leak theory? Are those the lies that you're talking about? Because these are the lies people were censored over, were defamed and lost their jobs over. We just witnessed the greatest artificial depression in world history concurrent with the greatest widespread curtailment of civil liberty in recent memory because some people "thought it might help". One death is too many is how you end up in tyranny. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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KwarK
United States43642 Posts
On March 02 2022 13:42 Jerubaal wrote: What you're really saying is "my ideological schema makes your facts irrelevant." Your “facts” aren’t facts. It’s a massive gish gallop of nonsense that leaps from bad claim to bad claim to put the onus on the readers to go through and fact check it line by line. Nobody can really be bothered to do that but that doesn’t mean you’re right, it means you’re too bad at debate to be worth responding to. To take just one of your bad arguments in isolation, you slap 2018 economic growth (undefined, we talking GDP, SP500, Dow, what?), unemployment and tax cuts together. And yet the tax cut bill you’re referring to didn’t impact taxes filed in 2018, it impacted taxes filed in 2019 for tax year 2018. Furthermore government spending went up. Keynesians advocate for juicing the economy with demand stimulus through tax and spend. Libertarians typically advocate for growth through low taxation. What the Republicans did was large scale borrowing to fund tax cuts and spend, artificially inflating the economy by putting more money in the hands of both consumers and the government. This was not a success of conservative policy but rather populist policy. The “why can’t we have both high taxes and high government spending” of a man who bankrupted multiple casinos. But it took me far longer to respond that it did for you to make the bad argument and that is why people just dismiss you out of hand when you make a gish gallop. It’s not that your arguments are good, it’s that they are so obviously bad that nobody can be bothered to engage you. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On March 02 2022 14:04 KwarK wrote: Your “facts” aren’t facts. It’s a massive gish gallop of nonsense that leaps from bad claim to bad claim to put the onus on the readers to go through and fact check it line by line. Nobody can really be bothered to do that but that doesn’t mean you’re right, it means you’re too bad at debate to be worth responding to. To take just one of your bad arguments in isolation, you slap 2018 economic growth (undefined, we talking GDP, SP500, Dow, what?), unemployment and tax cuts together. And yet the tax cut bill you’re referring to didn’t impact taxes filed in 2018, it impacted taxes filed in 2019 for tax year 2018. Furthermore government spending went up. Keynesians advocate for juicing the economy with demand stimulus through tax and spend. Libertarians typically advocate for growth through low taxation. What the Republicans did was large scale borrowing to fund tax cuts and spend, artificially inflating the economy by putting more money in the hands of both consumers and the government. This was not a success of conservative policy but rather populist policy. The “why can’t we have both high taxes and high government spending” of a man who bankrupted multiple casinos. But it took me far longer to respond that it did for you to make the bad argument and that is why people just dismiss you out of hand when you make a gish gallop. It’s not that your arguments are good, it’s that they are so obviously bad that nobody can be bothered to engage you. So responding to a bunch of posts is "gish galloping"? + Show Spoiler + On a side note, as interesting as the concept is, it's ironic in kind of a disgusting way that it's named after a young earther after the disgusting lies of the anti-religion propagandists like Washington Irving inventing the Christopher Colombus story and the horrific Draper/White book. You have to realize that the overriding thesis of this forum isn't that there are people who are wrong; it's that anyone who doesn't share those positions is irredeemably stupid and/or evil. That's why the meme arose about how everyone who disagrees with a Democrat position, no matter how minor, must also be racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic. It's not about the issue: It's about having the Gnostic wisdom, the Woke vs The Deplorables. Every post you've made replying to me has made this abundantly clear. And to prove that I am so stupid and ignorant and of bad faith, you first pretend that my topic section for that section is a evidence and deride it for being non-specific. You then ignore the two very specific pieces of evidence, including the topic du jour back then, unemployment. You could have said, well there were some strong indicators, but it couldn't be long term, or unemployment that low is not ideal. Instead you "well akchually" me. And, again, you're entitled to your opinion, but you're not arguing to be right, you're arguing that I should be marginalized. So...were you alive when Trump was President? Were you in cryostasis? Is the premise that the economy was strong, even improved, under Trump up until the lockdowns something that can't even be coutenanced? Because idk about you, but I was alive during Trump's presidency and that was definitely the prevailing sentiment. But I'm sure investopedia will tell me that I'm wrong. On March 02 2022 14:08 JimmiC wrote: Nope, there is nothing ideological about facts. They either are or they are not. You can then have alternative theories on the whys, hows and so on. But facts are facts, once you start believe there can be two facts you can be told just about anything. Actual conservatives are even trying to tell you this but the populism is too engrained in many. See when those emails came out about those heads of virology deciding to say there was zero chance of the lab leak happening because it was not important at that time and the important part was doing the right things to contain the virus, not place blame and so on. People like me did not pretend it did not happen, we did call it a right wing conspiracy, we read about it and formed our opinions based on what the emails said and the reasoning, because it did happen. We took that and a whole bunch of other facts and formed an opinion. What you do, and so many with these believes is just disregard the facts you don't like and accept the ones you do as truth, regardless if it even makes sense let alone is provable. I'm confused. You're saying that the people who are supposed to be the experts in this sort of thing said that there was no way it could be a lab leak not based on any facts but for political reasons that benefitted them, but the people who said "this all looks too suspicious, I'm skeptical." Are the problem? Jesus Christ, man. Do you think the most important thing is to "follow the experts" even if the experts clearly have ulterior motives and get proven wrong repeatedely and change "the science" weekly? Again, it doesn't matter whether it was from a lab or not. The point is that there was clear political motivation for many of these issues, the lab for one, and they used the guise of their authority and credentials to shape the message while censoring and defaming anyone who protested. I personally hope it was natural because I would be disgusted to think the U.S. had anything to do with it. I'm disgusted as it is. | ||
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