EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3523
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
micronesia
United States24682 Posts
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On February 24 2022 22:41 JimmiC wrote: All this mocking of Bidens warnings on this thread mostly by our conservative posters is aging extremely poorly. Pwning the libs while being completely wrong is Trumps MO but I guess just the way of the future. Trump loving talk about what a genius Putin is and great strategist should age poorly. But of couse people are so deep in the cult of Trump they will either pretend it didnt happen or be trying to join or copy him soon. Edit: here is the quotes During a live interview with The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show, a syndicated conservative talk radio show, Trump called the move by Putin "genius" and "smart." The question is this the final straw? Or do we start seeing MARA (make america russian Asap) and USR (united states of Russia) hats emerge? Putin does like to pwn libs. Thing is that even the Ukrainians in this thread told us not to listen to the scare mongers in the US, because Russia does these buildups every year. The fact is that US intelligence is not entitled to automatic trust. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8983 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Think about where you get your information from and why were you misinformed. And stop getting information from those places, because if you refuse to reflect on being wrong you will almost certainly end up being a tool for someone else's agenda again. | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
I don't really fault Biden for using the strategy of broadcasting what his intelligence people were telling him, although it's kind of a minor point overall, because that strategy obviously had no deterrence effect. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25353 Posts
I am considerably more skeptical of how the output of the US intelligence apparatus is subsequently wielded than I am in their base competence. If on top of that you have corroboration from all sorts of disparate nations then things do start to look rather credible. | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On February 25 2022 05:35 JimmiC wrote: It has the effect of people (who are not blinded by partisanship) knowing the Russian excuses are pure propaganda. You still have idiots like Trump trying to make excuses for Putin but anyone with a brain now knows this was Russians plan all along. And again, it was not just US intelligence. And its not like the people who were Trusting Biden were saying we should mount an offensive, there was no downside to being prepared other then the week of conservative pundits making fun of Biden which they do anyway. And people like yourself drink it down and spew it back out no matter how little truth there was to it. You think this would be eye opening but the fact and honesty ship has long since sailed from your camp. Not sure what you're talking about. I was in here saying the invasion was probably going to happen. I was then told by Ukrainians to calm down. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 25 2022 05:37 WombaT wrote: We're ultimately not privileged and privy to giant swathes of hidden information behind the scenes. Let's be real, even the considerably more informed within this thread are going off intuition and second-guesses than information that is rock solid. I am considerably more skeptical of how the output of the US intelligence apparatus is subsequently wielded than I am in their base competence. If on top of that you have corroboration from all sorts of disparate nations then things do start to look rather credible. The problem, from a credibility standpoint, was that the intel agencies position was the same as their position with regards to previously asserted, and now disproven, intelligence: Trust us. Previous examples of such behavior being Iraq WMD, failing to predict Gorbachov's resignation, 2016 Election machine hacking, the Libya embassy/youtube theory, and others. Several members of the White House Press Corps had asked for elaboration and the White House never made even a tiny attempt to elaborate. I remember a pretty silly Psaki exchange with one where she kept saying, the same stock answer to questions in the vein of, "but how can we trust you?" People have generally learned we need more. But even so, the fact the intel agencies were sorta (they missed by several days) right this time is irrelevant, because we were never going to do anything other than yell loudly and do nothing. Its not clear any NATO country has the political will to fight Russia at all. I'd estimate the US, UK, CA, France, Poland, and the 3 Baltics have some modicum of will. But that is 7/30 countries. The rest would likely do nothing on the frontlines even if Poland or the Baltics were invaded. This is hardly a serious situation. And is the alliance even military-capable right now? We just botched the simple operation of leaving Afghanistan. Anyone who's played Starcraft at the silver level would have done that better. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On February 25 2022 15:13 cLutZ wrote: The problem, from a credibility standpoint, was that the intel agencies position was the same as their position with regards to previously asserted, and now disproven, intelligence: Trust us. Previous examples of such behavior being Iraq WMD, failing to predict Gorbachov's resignation, 2016 Election machine hacking, the Libya embassy/youtube theory, and others. Several members of the White House Press Corps had asked for elaboration and the White House never made even a tiny attempt to elaborate. I remember a pretty silly Psaki exchange with one where she kept saying, the same stock answer to questions in the vein of, "but how can we trust you?" People have generally learned we need more. But even so, the fact the intel agencies were sorta (they missed by several days) right this time is irrelevant, because we were never going to do anything other than yell loudly and do nothing. Its not clear any NATO country has the political will to fight Russia at all. I'd estimate the US, UK, CA, France, Poland, and the 3 Baltics have some modicum of will. But that is 7/30 countries. The rest would likely do nothing on the frontlines even if Poland or the Baltics were invaded. This is hardly a serious situation. And is the alliance even military-capable right now? We just botched the simple operation of leaving Afghanistan. Anyone who's played Starcraft at the silver level would have done that better. I'm pretty sure the only reason they missed the date was because they went public with the information; that's kind of the thing with going public with intel that could affect operations of the enemy. In a world without the intel going public I think it's very possible we have the invasion a week earlier (of course, this is unknowable). It's okay to take a "wait and see" at first. But once there was an uptick in almost certain false flags in Donbas (exactly as the intel predicted), lies about withdrawing troops (also predicted), and moves to recognize the regions as independent (predicted) with a pitch of denazification (predicted), it was pretty irrational to keep doubting a Russian invasion on the part of public figures. Publicly heads of state maybe had a justification for faking belief in good faith, but privately? The plans should have been in place for a much more rapid and coordinated response. As for the intel community saying "trust us" I'm not sure what more you can say when it comes to intel you've gathered from foreign espionage. Do you want receipts or something? The agents' LinkedIn profiles? Explicitly predicting a verifiable string of events is about as good as you'll get, and that's what they did. | ||
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Sadist
United States7233 Posts
On February 25 2022 15:13 cLutZ wrote: The problem, from a credibility standpoint, was that the intel agencies position was the same as their position with regards to previously asserted, and now disproven, intelligence: Trust us. Previous examples of such behavior being Iraq WMD, failing to predict Gorbachov's resignation, 2016 Election machine hacking, the Libya embassy/youtube theory, and others. Several members of the White House Press Corps had asked for elaboration and the White House never made even a tiny attempt to elaborate. I remember a pretty silly Psaki exchange with one where she kept saying, the same stock answer to questions in the vein of, "but how can we trust you?" People have generally learned we need more. But even so, the fact the intel agencies were sorta (they missed by several days) right this time is irrelevant, because we were never going to do anything other than yell loudly and do nothing. Its not clear any NATO country has the political will to fight Russia at all. I'd estimate the US, UK, CA, France, Poland, and the 3 Baltics have some modicum of will. But that is 7/30 countries. The rest would likely do nothing on the frontlines even if Poland or the Baltics were invaded. This is hardly a serious situation. And is the alliance even military-capable right now? We just botched the simple operation of leaving Afghanistan. Anyone who's played Starcraft at the silver level would have done that better. What is this about? The Trump admin? Breach of voter rolls by Russia? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden on Friday nominated federal appeals court Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to the U.S. Supreme Court, making her the first Black woman selected to serve on a court that once declared her race unworthy of citizenship and endorsed segregation. Introducing Jackson, Biden called her a “proven consensus builder” who has “a pragmatic understanding that the law must work for the American people.” “She strives to be fair, to get it right, to do justice,” the president added. In Jackson, Biden delivers on a campaign promise to make the historic appointment and to further diversify a court that was made up entirely of white men for almost two centuries. He chose an attorney who would be the high court’s first former public defender, though she also possesses the elite legal background of other justices. Source Don't know who she is, but a lot of people cared about it so here it is. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
Ukraine is going to have the most informed insurgency ever. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8983 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21687 Posts
On February 26 2022 06:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: I really have to wonder if this does anything. Does Putin actually have any assets outside of Russia? Everyone remotely connected to Russia's inner circle has known they can be sanctioned and have their assets frozen for almost a decade now. US is sanctioning Putin and Lavrov according to NPR. Surely they have moved practically all of their stuff somewhere out of the reach of the West. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8983 Posts
On February 26 2022 06:26 Gorsameth wrote: I really have to wonder if this does anything. Does Putin actually have any assets outside of Russia? Everyone remotely connected to Russia's inner circle has known they can be sanctioned and have their assets frozen for almost a decade now. Surely they have moved practically all of their stuff somewhere out of the reach of the West. It's being reported that Sweden is also freezing any and all assets that NATO has sanctioned. And there was that rumor that China was limiting some things financially as well. Not sure how much this will hurt them in the long run or short, but people wanted him sanctioned. Putin is sanctioned. | ||
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