US Politics Mega-thread - Page 350

On June 26 2018 10:41 xDaunt wrote:

You’re right, I was conflating something else.

On June 26 2018 09:49 xDaunt wrote:

I agree. Let’s not put the kids in cages. Let’s reunite them with their families on an express flight out of the US.

On June 26 2018 10:35 xDaunt wrote:
It’s the repeat offenders that are being jailed.

Edit: And the issue isn’t that you can’t seek asylum if you enter illegally. The issue is that there are consequences as a matter of law if you opt for that route.

On June 26 2018 08:44 Plansix wrote:


Way back in 2012 a baker refused to serve joe Biden cookies while campaigning. Now, Biden did ask if he could stop by while campaigning and be baker refused. All fair and good. But then Paul Ryan decided that these bakers were sending a message to the administration and turned them into a feature at a campaign event.

This is a very similar event(though with key differences) that somehow remained civil and didn’t escalate. And standing up to Obama and the government was celebrated by Republicans. It was all cool until they were the ones in power and there is no longer an adult in the White House.

On June 26 2018 07:46 xDaunt wrote:
I'm under no delusions that there'd be plenty of people who'd refuse me service if I was a member of the Trump administration or otherwise a public, highly visible figure. I just want to stress that this is a more recent development and, per my previous comments, a reflection of the current shitiness of our society.

On June 26 2018 08:44 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/ASFried/status/1011385963162013696

Way back in 2012 a baker refused to serve joe Biden cookies while campaigning. Now, Biden did ask if he could stop by while campaigning and be baker refused. All fair and good. But then Paul Ryan decided that these bakers were sending a message to the administration and turned them into a feature at a campaign event.

This is a very similar event(though with key differences) that somehow remained civil and didn’t escalate. And standing up to Obama and the government was celebrated by Republicans. It was all cool until they were the ones in power and there is no longer an adult in the White House.

On June 26 2018 16:21 Jockmcplop wrote:


I didn't know this.
It pretty much puts the last couple of days of arguments in perspective.

Its also amusing that no-one really remembers the incident. Maybe its because the Obama administration didn't want to paint a picture of themselves as poor helpless victims, given that they were trying to run a country, and acted with dignity instead.

On June 26 2018 07:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Well, he did argue that a baker have the right to refuse service due to political beliefs, so if a restaurant decides to exercise that same right, perhaps he should be happy for that political freedom?

Actually I am quite interested to see the viewpoint and squaring of the circle from those who defend the baker, now are outraged when then a political figure is denied service.

The first explosive fire of the season roared across Northern California on Monday, scorching thousands of acres, razing several homes and forcing hundreds of residents to flee.

Named the Pawnee Fire, the blaze was so destructive that Gov. Jerry Brown declared a state of emergency as it continued to carve a path of devastation through Lake County — about 100 miles northwest of Sacramento — only 5 percent contained after more than two days of burning.

By late Monday night, officials said, the inferno had charred more than 10,000 acres of mostly rural and sparsely populated land, destroying at least 22 buildings, threatening an additional 600, and forcing as many as 1,500 residents to scoop up their treasured belongings and seek safer shelter.

Lt. Corey Paulich, a spokesman for the Lake County Sheriff’s Office, said he believed about half of the destroyed structures were homes; the others were sheds, barns, garages and other outbuildings, he said.

The cause of the fire was still under investigation, Cal Fire officials said.

“It’s still very dangerous, as most fires are,” said Scott McLean, a Cal Fire deputy chief. “There is still significant fire activity. Not today, not tomorrow, but in the next few days, we expect to see the fire containment figures start to rise.”

For many Northern Californians, the sight of billowing black smoke and dancing orange flames stirred harrowing memories of last October’s deadly string of wildfires that collectively killed more than 40 people, ripped through more than 7,000 structures and burned hundreds of thousands of acres of California wine country and other nearby land.

Investigators eventually determined that a dozen of the blazes were caused by electric power and distribution lines, conductors and the failure of power poles. The utility Pacific Gas & Electric Company has since reportedly warned investors that it anticipates being held liable for at least $2.5 billion in damages.

Lake County specifically is no stranger to fire danger. In 2016, the Clayton Fire, near Lower Lake, burned nearly 4,000 acres and destroyed about 300 structures. (Investigators eventually arrested a man on suspicion of arson in connection with that fire.) The year before that, in 2015, the Valley Fire tore through Lake, Napa and Sonoma Counties, ravaging about 2,000 structures and killing four people.

Fire officials said that as of Monday, the Pawnee Fire — which began northeast of Clearlake Oaks on Saturday — was being driven by low relative humidity, erratic winds and above-normal temperatures, which were in the mid-80s.

The authorities have issued a mandatory evacuation order for the Spring Valley area, which has a population that numbers in the hundreds. They said a shelter had been established at a local high school and urged residents who stayed behind to cut their water usage so that firefighters have enough to douse the flames.

And although the Pawnee Fire was by far the largest and most alarming blaze, several smaller fires were spreading elsewhere in the state.

The Creek Fire, for example, had scorched about 1,300 acres by Monday in Shasta County — about 200 miles northeast of Lake County — forcing evacuations and closing roads there. The Lane Fire, which is burning between the other two, had consumed 3,000 acres and prompted an evacuation warning.

Mid-June is the beginning of the traditional fire season in California, though officials have long insisted that the season is now year-round.

Chief McLean said that of the more than 250 fires that ignited last week alone in his agency’s jurisdiction, 90 started over the weekend. The combination of high winds, heat and abundance of fuels — like dry brush, foliage and vegetation — that remain scattered throughout the region are likely to blame, he said.

Indeed, much of California’s terrain remains charred from what seems like years of relentless wildfires and perennial drought, which, combined with a bark beetle infestation, have killed more than 100 million trees.

Even though a yearslong drought was declared over last spring, Chief McLean noted dryly: “Last year we had one decent storm. This year we have had a little bit more.”

“We have to have significant storms coming through here on the West Coast for several years to get us where we need to be,” he said.

And while he said it was too soon to forecast what kind of fire year 2018 would be, Chief McLean said Cal Fire had already responded to about 200 more wildfires to date than it did in 2017.

“The fortunate thing, and the unfortunate thing, is we have a population that is experienced,” Lieutenant Paulich of Lake County said. “They’re used to getting the evacuation notices and they know what to do what they get them. They’re aware of the dangers because of the last three years.”

On June 26 2018 19:09 Falling wrote:
For myself, if the restaurant was asked by Sanders to cater a Republican event, I'm fully onboard with them refusing. There's any number of events one could cater and I like for businesses to be free to pick and choose which ones they want to cater- political ideology is fair game for refusing. It's a transformative event, where the business must do something specific for you, and I think a business needs to be able to stand behind whatever event they are personally being involved with. I don't love that they refused service to a regular meal. I don't think it was right to deny Biden service either. I don't want government stepping in, but I don't like that this is where we are going.

I don't know. Am I making a weird distinction? I think there's a difference between a band refusing to play for a Republican convention (or use their music for that matter) vs a guitar store refusing to sell a guitar to a member of a president's cabinet. The first I think is inevitably necessary, the second is perhaps allowable, but I don't like it.

On June 26 2018 19:42 Excludos wrote:


Again it really needs pointing out that she wasn't refused service "cause she's a republican", she was refused service because she's with an administration that at the time (and still ongoing) had several human rights violations against immigrants from the same country as the restaurant owner. This isn't a case of "refused service because of political views", it's a case of "refused service because she's a giant douchedildo who's complicit in removing children from their parent's arms and locking them in cages".

To put it to a hypothetical: It's less ok to refuse service to a republican than it is to refuse service to a literal Nazi who just happens to also be a republican. It's not ok to refuse service to someone because they're gay, but if that gay person also happen to be a child molester..

On June 26 2018 07:46 xDaunt wrote:


I'm under no delusions that there'd be plenty of people who'd refuse me service if I was a member of the Trump administration or otherwise a public, highly visible figure. I just want to stress that this is a more recent development and, per my previous comments, a reflection of the current shitiness of our society. Hell, it's a good thing that I'm married, because dating would be a pain in the ass with the new political litmus tests that women put out there, which is a completely foreign concept to me. And for those who are wondering, if I was going to describe the political leanings of my wife, she'd probably be a cross between Mohdoo and Igne with more than a dusting of Chinese totalitarianism thrown in.



It's not hard. There's nothing inconsistent between arguing against the use of government power to force someone to do something, and then arguing for a civil society in which people do not discriminate in the marketplace based upon political, religious, or other divisions.

On June 26 2018 19:47 Jockmcplop wrote:


Was it OK for the cookie guy to refuse to serve Biden?

The issue for me isn't really with the act of refusing to serve a politician, but the obvious tit for tat battle that ensues. Moving the political battleground into new areas isn't something that's really going to help when a country is divided up like America.

On June 26 2018 21:25 Excludos wrote:


Yes, because that wasn't refusal of serving a citizen out eating dinner my him/herself, he was refusing to support a campaign (for whatever reason he may want). That is and must be entirely allowed without any kind of repercussion.

Let's do the whole hypothetical again: It's not ok to refuse service to someone because they're gay, but it's entirely ok to refuse catering to a gay bar.