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On June 26 2018 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 05:01 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. I think the argument is that denying someone service when they ask for dinner with their family is the most “focused” form of public outrage. Not all forms of protest were created equal after all. That was democracy in the workplace. Boss asked her employees what they wanted and they didn't want to serve her. That's not just great focused public outrage but a tiny positive step toward worker directed enterprises.
Agreed. But the message I am reading from Democrats today isn’t that the outrage isn’t justified, but that there needs to be a plan on how turn it into change. That this denial of service isn’t the end of the world, but it’s something that should continue as an effective way to change things.
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On June 26 2018 04:47 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 04:45 zlefin wrote:On June 26 2018 04:29 NewSunshine wrote:
I agree. I think it's dangerously easy for the Republicans to attack that kind of activism, and for other Democrats to disown it, but the kind of public protest put on display at the Red Hen, and what Maxine went out and called for, showed our government officials how disliked they are better than 1,000,000 people shouting into the void of Twitter. She has it right, if we're going to try and bring these people a dose of much-needed reality, do it to their face. Show them that people are upset with them. Make them face some form of kickback for their actions. Civility is overrated. Change has to come from somewhere, and it never comes from a place of comfort. I'd rather the dose of reality come by convicting more of them. might be hard to arrange, but it's a much more satisfying result. not sure what grounds can be found for some of them though. That would be nice, but the convictions and indictments that we've already gotten haven't done a thing. See this thread. Trump's defenders are unfazed by the trappings of reality. Everyone but the man Donald could be jailed and they wouldn't give 2 shits. They need to face focused public outrage, they need to face a real protest.
based on the text of the post I responded to you in; the people to whom the dose of reality was to be given was the trump admin people; not their defenders in the public at large.
and to thsoe people, they have done quite a bit I think. sure the public at large may blithely ignore it; but the high up people know they are at real risk of getting jailed. It doesn't seem to be fazing them much; but I think it's doing a bit.
I don't expect the fools in the public at large to ever get it.
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On June 26 2018 05:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:01 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. I think the argument is that denying someone service when they ask for dinner with their family is the most “focused” form of public outrage. Not all forms of protest were created equal after all. That was democracy in the workplace. Boss asked her employees what they wanted and they didn't want to serve her. That's not just great focused public outrage but a tiny positive step toward worker directed enterprises. Agreed. But the message I am reading from Democrats today isn’t that the outrage isn’t justified, but that there needs to be a plan on how turn it into change. That this denial of service isn’t the end of the world, but it’s something that should continue as an effective way to change things.
It's a small segment of Democrat politicians that have any desire to change things, most of them just want to make their futility seem legitimate and unavoidable..
Holding Democrat politicians accountable is the first step none of them want to take.
Democrats could have every seat in congress/senate and the presidency and things would only change marginally. None of the big pervasive issues would be addressed because they are features not bugs.
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On June 26 2018 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 05:07 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:01 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. I think the argument is that denying someone service when they ask for dinner with their family is the most “focused” form of public outrage. Not all forms of protest were created equal after all. That was democracy in the workplace. Boss asked her employees what they wanted and they didn't want to serve her. That's not just great focused public outrage but a tiny positive step toward worker directed enterprises. Agreed. But the message I am reading from Democrats today isn’t that the outrage isn’t justified, but that there needs to be a plan on how turn it into change. That this denial of service isn’t the end of the world, but it’s something that should continue as an effective way to change things. It's a small segment of Democrat politicians that have any desire to change things, most of them just want to make their futility seem legitimate and unavoidable.. Holding Democrat politicians accountable is the first step none of them want to take. Democrats could have every seat in congress/senate and the presidency and things would only change marginally. None of the big pervasive issues would be addressed because they are features not bugs.
Of course things would change. First of all, they would split into two new political parties based on their views. And second, congress might start holding hearings on real legislation again.
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On June 26 2018 05:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:07 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:01 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. I think the argument is that denying someone service when they ask for dinner with their family is the most “focused” form of public outrage. Not all forms of protest were created equal after all. That was democracy in the workplace. Boss asked her employees what they wanted and they didn't want to serve her. That's not just great focused public outrage but a tiny positive step toward worker directed enterprises. Agreed. But the message I am reading from Democrats today isn’t that the outrage isn’t justified, but that there needs to be a plan on how turn it into change. That this denial of service isn’t the end of the world, but it’s something that should continue as an effective way to change things. It's a small segment of Democrat politicians that have any desire to change things, most of them just want to make their futility seem legitimate and unavoidable.. Holding Democrat politicians accountable is the first step none of them want to take. Democrats could have every seat in congress/senate and the presidency and things would only change marginally. None of the big pervasive issues would be addressed because they are features not bugs. Of course things would change. First of all, they would split into two new political parties based on their views. And second, congress might start holding hearings on real legislation again.
Exactly, it would change marginally.
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On June 26 2018 05:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 05:17 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:07 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:01 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. I think the argument is that denying someone service when they ask for dinner with their family is the most “focused” form of public outrage. Not all forms of protest were created equal after all. That was democracy in the workplace. Boss asked her employees what they wanted and they didn't want to serve her. That's not just great focused public outrage but a tiny positive step toward worker directed enterprises. Agreed. But the message I am reading from Democrats today isn’t that the outrage isn’t justified, but that there needs to be a plan on how turn it into change. That this denial of service isn’t the end of the world, but it’s something that should continue as an effective way to change things. It's a small segment of Democrat politicians that have any desire to change things, most of them just want to make their futility seem legitimate and unavoidable.. Holding Democrat politicians accountable is the first step none of them want to take. Democrats could have every seat in congress/senate and the presidency and things would only change marginally. None of the big pervasive issues would be addressed because they are features not bugs. Of course things would change. First of all, they would split into two new political parties based on their views. And second, congress might start holding hearings on real legislation again. Exactly, it would change marginally.
Going through the public, open process to pass legislation to do anything would be the first step towards change. Right now congress does nothing but wait for the next election. If the left ever obtains enough power in congress to have a foot hold, at some point they would need to pass laws.
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On June 26 2018 05:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 05:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:17 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 05:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:07 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 05:01 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. I think the argument is that denying someone service when they ask for dinner with their family is the most “focused” form of public outrage. Not all forms of protest were created equal after all. That was democracy in the workplace. Boss asked her employees what they wanted and they didn't want to serve her. That's not just great focused public outrage but a tiny positive step toward worker directed enterprises. Agreed. But the message I am reading from Democrats today isn’t that the outrage isn’t justified, but that there needs to be a plan on how turn it into change. That this denial of service isn’t the end of the world, but it’s something that should continue as an effective way to change things. It's a small segment of Democrat politicians that have any desire to change things, most of them just want to make their futility seem legitimate and unavoidable.. Holding Democrat politicians accountable is the first step none of them want to take. Democrats could have every seat in congress/senate and the presidency and things would only change marginally. None of the big pervasive issues would be addressed because they are features not bugs. Of course things would change. First of all, they would split into two new political parties based on their views. And second, congress might start holding hearings on real legislation again. Exactly, it would change marginally. Going through the public, open process to pass legislation to do anything would be the first step towards change. Right now congress does nothing but wait for the next election. If the left ever obtains enough power in congress to have a foot hold, at some point they would need to pass laws.
There's no point in giving them more power when they aren't being held accountable for the ways they use the power they have (at the local levels for example).
Giving them more power won't make them behave better.
Though I think it's clear now we agree it would only change things marginally to have the current Democratic party occupy every seat. They are essentially just the more 'civil' version of the Republican party.
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On June 26 2018 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 04:29 NewSunshine wrote:
I agree. I think it's dangerously easy for the Republicans to attack that kind of activism, and for other Democrats to disown it, but the kind of public protest put on display at the Red Hen, and what Maxine went out and called for, showed our government officials how disliked they are better than 1,000,000 people shouting into the void of Twitter. She has it right, if we're going to try and bring these people a dose of much-needed reality, do it to their face. Show them that people are upset with them. Make them face some form of kickback for their actions. Civility is overrated. Change has to come from somewhere, and it never comes from a place of comfort. This is why they want it to stop and why people calling for 'civility' or claiming "the middle" are irrefutably helping the oppressors. It works. ICE has had to temporarily shut down multiple facilities because people just refused to be "civil". Of course I find our immigration policy uncivil and those breaking laws to stop it the civil ones. BTW I understand why people here are oblivious to this, but if you had any Black friends with family in the south you would know that there has always and still is places where Black people aren't welcome and won't be served or will be intentionally mistreated by service staff. Hell there's bars within an hour drive in WA where on weekends black people aren't welcome (white supremacist biker gatherings). I was actually given the choice to stand for the national anthem or leave the bar not long ago. White people, especially Republicans live in a fantasy land where what's happening to them isn't a much more gentle reflection of the way they have treated others for the entirety of this country's history. EDIT: Mohdoo is demonstrating that for us rather well right now.
I think the two recent activism paths are doing a good job at showing what I think is productive vs nonproductive.
All the stuff with Portland shutting down an ICE office was an absolute home run. Perfectly done. Large group of people banding together against big bad government stealing babies is A+ messaging. This was a bunch of not super powerful people banding together to take down something very powerful doing very bad things. Perfect.
It is less transparent with Sanders. It is easy to see the person dining as being in a vulnerable position. Sanders was kicked out of a restaurant because that restaurant used their authority to remove her. So from the beginning, sure, Sanders is a part of the current administration. But SHS is not ICE and she was not really prevented from doing anything politics related. This was a jab at her, from a position of power, aimed at preventing...well, not really anything.
When people protest against ICE, it is a super clear case of saving people from ICE. ICE is locking kids in cages, so we should go hurt their productivity. But SHS is "just the messenger" to many people. And it allows republicans to frame this as "intolerance towards conservatives", which already has great optics and buy-in from conservatives. They LOVE the idea of being victims of society.
It is *much* harder for ICE to be framed as a poor helpless little organization locking up kids. There is a reason Ted freaking Cruz even joined the echo chamber in calling for reuniting families.
It is all a matter of framing activism as: (group a lot of people identify with) defending (weak individual or people) against (oppressive/evil government).
^That works every time and is what we should try to stick to. Denying SHS her dinner just doesn't have the same optics. Preventing kids from being thrown in cages is a wayyyyyyyyyyy easier sell.
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On June 26 2018 06:09 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 26 2018 04:29 NewSunshine wrote:
I agree. I think it's dangerously easy for the Republicans to attack that kind of activism, and for other Democrats to disown it, but the kind of public protest put on display at the Red Hen, and what Maxine went out and called for, showed our government officials how disliked they are better than 1,000,000 people shouting into the void of Twitter. She has it right, if we're going to try and bring these people a dose of much-needed reality, do it to their face. Show them that people are upset with them. Make them face some form of kickback for their actions. Civility is overrated. Change has to come from somewhere, and it never comes from a place of comfort. This is why they want it to stop and why people calling for 'civility' or claiming "the middle" are irrefutably helping the oppressors. It works. ICE has had to temporarily shut down multiple facilities because people just refused to be "civil". Of course I find our immigration policy uncivil and those breaking laws to stop it the civil ones. BTW I understand why people here are oblivious to this, but if you had any Black friends with family in the south you would know that there has always and still is places where Black people aren't welcome and won't be served or will be intentionally mistreated by service staff. Hell there's bars within an hour drive in WA where on weekends black people aren't welcome (white supremacist biker gatherings). I was actually given the choice to stand for the national anthem or leave the bar not long ago. White people, especially Republicans live in a fantasy land where what's happening to them isn't a much more gentle reflection of the way they have treated others for the entirety of this country's history. EDIT: Mohdoo is demonstrating that for us rather well right now. I think the two recent activism paths are doing a good job at showing what I think is productive vs nonproductive. All the stuff with Portland shutting down an ICE office was an absolute home run. Perfectly done. Large group of people banding together against big bad government stealing babies is A+ messaging. This was a bunch of not super powerful people banding together to take down something very powerful doing very bad things. Perfect. It is less transparent with Sanders. It is easy to see the person dining as being in a vulnerable position. Sanders was kicked out of a restaurant because that restaurant used their authority to remove her. So from the beginning, sure, Sanders is a part of the current administration. But SHS is not ICE and she was not really prevented from doing anything politics related. This was a jab at her, from a position of power, aimed at preventing...well, not really anything. When people protest against ICE, it is a super clear case of saving people from ICE. ICE is locking kids in cages, so we should go hurt their productivity. But SHS is "just the messenger" to many people. And it allows republicans to frame this as "intolerance towards conservatives", which already has great optics and buy-in from conservatives. They LOVE the idea of being victims of society. It is *much* harder for ICE to be framed as a poor helpless little organization locking up kids. There is a reason Ted freaking Cruz even joined the echo chamber in calling for reuniting families. It is all a matter of framing activism as: (group a lot of people identify with) defending (weak individual or people) against (oppressive/evil government). ^That works every time and is what we should try to stick to. Denying SHS her dinner just doesn't have the same optics. Preventing kids from being thrown in cages is a wayyyyyyyyyyy easier sell.
We agree on ICE (which I admit surprised me). We disagree on SHS because we see the value in disrupting the lives of people who facilitate these atrocities differently. Trump has a hard time keeping a press secretary precisely because they are one of the least insulated members of the people in power.
If people feel like the benefits of helping Trump don't outweigh the negatives of being accountable for his administrations actions they won't participate. This has been reinforced by the inability of Trump to keep people in position if he can even get them there in the first place.
The first layer to go were the people worried about the looks/comments they would get at the country clubs, charity events, and socialite dinners. The tier in there now doesn't care about the "liberal" faction of that crowd (they never liked each other anyway) and increasingly don't care about the "conservative" faction either.
Trump is down to people who think they can support his immigration policy and then go eat at a public Mexican restaurant. It is absolutely imperative to make it clear that's not going to work for them.
We can agree that actions like we see at ICE locations around the country are critical but I hope you'll see the importance of stuff like the SHS incident (and other Trump officials) as well.
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And with that our boy Trump has weighed in on the discussion:
The Red Hen Restaurant should focus more on cleaning its filthy canopies, doors and windows (badly needs a paint job) rather than refusing to serve a fine person like Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it is dirty on the inside!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 25, 2018
Source
The article has a lot of similar information that we already know. But it highlights a simple fact of what is happening now, only half of the people involved are advocating to all get along and be civil. The White House is saying the treatment of Sarah Sanders was unacceptable, but that the President will harass anyone that he feels has earned his public same. From the NFL to Immigration Judges, they could all feel his wrath if he decides to do so. We should all play nice while the Trump administration advocates for denying due process under threat of deportation.
The Washington Post had a nice opinion piece on the subject of the frustration among democratic voters that. That all the norms and rules are not being applied to Trump and his administration. Those folks rightly feel like they are getting played.
A quote from it:
To the first point, the Sanders-Red Hen situation has unearthed (or perhaps vivified) a growing sentiment in our society. It is seen in liberals and opponents of President Trump who are done with playing nice. It is apparent as the Democratic Party gradually sheds Michelle Obama's declaration that “When they go low, we go high” and trading it for “We fight fire with fire.” It is borne of frustration and a lack of results after abiding by the norms of political discourse while Trump and his allies run roughshod over all the old rules.
And from that standpoint, it's an understandable reaction. Democrats, the logic goes, are unilaterally disarming by not adopting the kind of extreme tactics that Trump regularly employs. Democrats, with some good reason, feel as if their side of the political debate is being played for fools.
Whether specific actions like the one taken Friday are appropriate is another question entirely, though. The Washington Post editorial board has warned against this kind of thing, as has former top Barack Obama White House official David Axelrod.
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On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop.
do you think restaurants should stop serving xdaunt?
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On June 26 2018 04:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 04:40 Doodsmack wrote:
Predictably, Trump has now responded to Maxine and implied retaliation, once again showing the lack of civility that he embodies and encourages. Republicans chose this man to be president.
I wonder if Trump talked his way through a few IQ questions if it would reveal a hidden intelligence or that he's even more stupid than we think?
Don't his followers want him to respond like that? As in, it's a high IQ move for whoever writes his twitter to say that?
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On June 26 2018 06:56 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. do you think restaurants should stop serving xdaunt?
Dunno, what has he done to them?
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On June 26 2018 06:56 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. do you think restaurants should stop serving xdaunt?
I think the restaurant shouldn't have a reason to not serve xDaunt. Whether they do or not is up to xDaunt.
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Well, he did argue that a baker have the right to refuse service due to political beliefs, so if a restaurant decides to exercise that same right, perhaps he should be happy for that political freedom?
Actually I am quite interested to see the viewpoint and squaring of the circle from those who defend the baker, now are outraged when then a political figure is denied service.
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On June 26 2018 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 06:56 IgnE wrote:On June 26 2018 04:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
Focused public outrage is the only check we have left. Congress and the Judicial are failing.
The reason Trump seems so much worse than standard Republicans is that he dispensed of the wisdom that suggested such blatant corruption and oppression would destabilize US society at large so it was imperative to keep it on the DL.
If there aren't signs of society destabilizing then it emboldens even more absurd actions. That's why the calls for civility from 'the left' have to stop. do you think restaurants should stop serving xdaunt? I think the restaurant shouldn't have a reason to not serve xDaunt. Whether they do or not is up to xDaunt.
Unless he's gearing up to be a mouthpiece for the administration, I don't see why he would be denied. He's harmless.
Oh, and on the topic of irony. I changed the topic.
I'm going to ignore for the moment that this was clearly not written by Trump - the vocabulary is too high level - and that the President of the United States is letting a staffer put out official statements under his name, and instead focus on how this call for #civility is also the most delicious irony. Dirty on the outside, dirty on the inside. For once, you're right Trump. You're right.
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On June 26 2018 07:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Well, he did argue that a baker have the right to refuse service due to political beliefs, so if a restaurant decides to exercise that same right, perhaps he should be happy for that political freedom?
I'm under no delusions that there'd be plenty of people who'd refuse me service if I was a member of the Trump administration or otherwise a public, highly visible figure. I just want to stress that this is a more recent development and, per my previous comments, a reflection of the current shitiness of our society. Hell, it's a good thing that I'm married, because dating would be a pain in the ass with the new political litmus tests that women put out there, which is a completely foreign concept to me. And for those who are wondering, if I was going to describe the political leanings of my wife, she'd probably be a cross between Mohdoo and Igne with more than a dusting of Chinese totalitarianism thrown in.
Actually I am quite interested to see the viewpoint and squaring of the circle from those who defend the baker, now are outraged when then a political figure is denied service.
It's not hard. There's nothing inconsistent between arguing against the use of government power to force someone to do something, and then arguing for a civil society in which people do not discriminate in the marketplace based upon political, religious, or other divisions.
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On June 26 2018 07:46 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 07:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Well, he did argue that a baker have the right to refuse service due to political beliefs, so if a restaurant decides to exercise that same right, perhaps he should be happy for that political freedom? I'm under no delusions that there'd be plenty of people who'd refuse me service if I was a member of the Trump administration or otherwise a public, highly visible figure. I just want to stress that this is a more recent development and, per my previous comments, a reflection of the current shitiness of our society. Hell, it's a good thing that I'm married, because dating would be a pain in the ass with the new political litmus tests that women put out there, which is a completely foreign concept to me. And for those who are wondering, if I was going to describe the political leanings of my wife, she'd probably be a cross between Mohdoo and Igne with more than a dusting of Chinese totalitarianism thrown in. Show nested quote +Actually I am quite interested to see the viewpoint and squaring of the circle from those who defend the baker, now are outraged when then a political figure is denied service. It's not hard. There's nothing inconsistent between arguing against the use of government power to force someone to do something, and then arguing for a civil society in which people do not discriminate in the marketplace based upon political, religious, or other divisions.
You keep saying this but it doesn't make it true. What's new is that the type of "shitty society" you're describing has negatively impacted (albeit slight af) someone you think matters.
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There has been polling lately that political ideology and a party affiliation are becoming big issues for people seeking relationships. That is a reflection of how far apart the parties are right now. But there isn’t a lot of reflection on how it got to be like that again. Because this isn’t the first time that political affiliations were seen as important factors in relationships.
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Also protests are de facto based on "political divisions". Dressing it up doesn't make the protester wrong. Then again, we more or less know xDaunt's stance on protests, unless he's had a change of heart I haven't seen. Can't say his position surprises.
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EPT
