|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On November 02 2021 17:27 Starlightsun wrote:
It feels like Biden's first two years have been filled with crisis after crisis. Pandemic, Afghanistan, immigrant surge, and bunch of natural disasters. And this is on top of inheriting the disjointed mess of incompetence and malice that previous administration left, crowned by January 6th. Combined with an obstinate congress with insufficient majority, I don't know what people are expecting him to do besides be some kind of FDR or something which I don't know is even possible in this age. I still hold hope that with 4 years they will make some progress at least rather than fling us all into the abyss.
Democrats failing on protecting voting rights for the people they need to vote for them in order to secure anything else is probably the biggest one hurting Biden/Democrats among their most consistent supporters currently.
I personally think Biden/Democrats are practically malevolent by way of their policy (most indisputably their globally maligned sanctions) but even their most loyal supporters are struggling to swallow their incompetence in protecting voting rights and women's bodily autonomy (which I'd say is potentially an alternative #1 thing hurting Democrats right now among their most consistent supporters).
|
Yeah they can’t even fucking accomplish things that help them electorally, like it’s not even a question that making it easier for their core constituency to vote is something directly to their advantage and they can’t even get that right. Democrats have mostly spent the last year or so proving they are unwilling/unable to protect the rights of their voters lol.
|
"Winning" the senate was definitely a poisoned chalice.
It's obvious at this point that manchin and particularly sinema are indistinguishable from Rs. Unfortunately, having their butts in their seats means the Ds look like they're failing to use a majority they don't actually have.
Biden was probably never going to go full government-by-EO, but at least with a republican senate he could have started doing the dance. As it is, we have a functionally-republican senate, but he looks weak and petulant if he tries to go around them. It's the worst of both worlds.
|
On November 02 2021 21:28 Belisarius wrote:
"Winning" the senate was definitely a poisoned chalice.
It's obvious at this point that manchin and particularly sinema are indistinguishable from Rs. Unfortunately, having their butts in their seats means the Ds look like they're failing to use a majority they don't actually have.
Biden was probably never going to go full government-by-EO, but at least with a republican senate he could have started doing the dance. As it is, we have a functionally-republican senate, but he looks weak and petulant if he tries to go around them. It's the worst of both worlds.
This is why I think Manchin does more harm than good, and it'd be better for Democrats to purge him and his ilk from the party.
|
On November 02 2021 17:27 Starlightsun wrote:
It feels like Biden's first two years have been filled with crisis after crisis. Pandemic, Afghanistan, immigrant surge, and bunch of natural disasters. And this is on top of inheriting the disjointed mess of incompetence and malice that previous administration left, crowned by January 6th. Combined with an obstinate congress with insufficient majority, I don't know what people are expecting him to do besides be some kind of FDR or something which I don't know is even possible in this age. I still hold hope that with 4 years they will make some progress at least rather than fling us all into the abyss.
This seems quite disingenuous in lionizing the meager work that Biden's administration managed to get done. The only thing in your "crisis after crisis" list that qualifies as an actual crisis is the pandemic, and it's far easier to manage the tail end of that, where a vaccine has been developed and is actively scaling up production, than to be on the front end when there's endless trouble and no obvious way to handle it. Afghanistan being an inevitable loss, the border situation being messy, and nondescript natural disasters occurring are little more than the long-time reality of the world we live in, and the only real notable accomplishment Biden can claim within that was killing an aid worker and his family during the withdrawal and claiming it was ISIS. No major foreign policy events beyond an unceremonious Afghanistan withdrawal, an economy still coked up on enough stimulus that it doesn't look like it's collapsing yet, and the tail end of a pandemic. Not even close to being one of the toughest presidencies so far.
Some people expect so little that they can make lists of minor changes Biden made and convince themselves that that makes for a good president. If the bar is "not being as bad as Trump," he certainly manages to squeeze out the bare minimum to meet that bar. But apparently he would have to be "some kind of FDR" to achieve more than that, such as perhaps one or two meaningful policy victories in the course of a presidency. Too much to hope for, evidently.
|
On November 02 2021 22:03 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 17:27 Starlightsun wrote:
It feels like Biden's first two years have been filled with crisis after crisis. Pandemic, Afghanistan, immigrant surge, and bunch of natural disasters. And this is on top of inheriting the disjointed mess of incompetence and malice that previous administration left, crowned by January 6th. Combined with an obstinate congress with insufficient majority, I don't know what people are expecting him to do besides be some kind of FDR or something which I don't know is even possible in this age. I still hold hope that with 4 years they will make some progress at least rather than fling us all into the abyss. This seems quite disingenuous in lionizing the meager work that Biden's administration managed to get done. The only thing in your "crisis after crisis" list that qualifies as an actual crisis is the pandemic, and it's far easier to manage the tail end of that, where a vaccine has been developed and is actively scaling up production, than to be on the front end when there's endless trouble and no obvious way to handle it. Afghanistan being an inevitable loss, the border situation being messy, and nondescript natural disasters occurring are little more than the long-time reality of the world we live in, and the only real notable accomplishment Biden can claim within that was killing an aid worker and his family during the withdrawal and claiming it was ISIS. No major foreign policy events beyond an unceremonious Afghanistan withdrawal, an economy still coked up on enough stimulus that it doesn't look like it's collapsing yet, and the tail end of a pandemic. Not even close to being one of the toughest presidencies so far. Some people expect so little that they can make lists of minor changes Biden made and convince themselves that that makes for a good president. If the bar is "not being as bad as Trump," he certainly manages to squeeze out the bare minimum to meet that bar. But apparently he would have to be "some kind of FDR" to achieve more than that, such as perhaps one or two meaningful policy victories in the course of a presidency. Too much to hope for, evidently.
Perhaps crisis was a bad choice of word. I certainly don't mean to lionize him as having emerged triumphant over crises. It's just been my impression that almost every week there's a new round of bad press over an intractable problem whose solution will require years or is largely outside the power of the executive branch. I don't understand why Biden is becoming so maligned when it is the legislative branch holding the cards right now and standing in the way.
I thought of FDR and the credit he is given for influencing the congress and even the courts to pass the sweeping reforms he wanted. But of course circumstances are very different now and I was thinking of the two presidents in contrast regarding their charisma and I guess "force of will". It's still my impression that Biden's intents have been surprisingly progressive but that he is hamstrung by the congress.
On November 02 2021 18:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 17:27 Starlightsun wrote:
It feels like Biden's first two years have been filled with crisis after crisis. Pandemic, Afghanistan, immigrant surge, and bunch of natural disasters. And this is on top of inheriting the disjointed mess of incompetence and malice that previous administration left, crowned by January 6th. Combined with an obstinate congress with insufficient majority, I don't know what people are expecting him to do besides be some kind of FDR or something which I don't know is even possible in this age. I still hold hope that with 4 years they will make some progress at least rather than fling us all into the abyss. Democrats failing on protecting voting rights for the people they need to vote for them in order to secure anything else is probably the biggest one hurting Biden/Democrats among their most consistent supporters currently. I personally think Biden/Democrats are practically malevolent by way of their policy (most indisputably their globally maligned sanctions) but even their most loyal supporters are struggling to swallow their incompetence in protecting voting rights and women's bodily autonomy (which I'd say is potentially an alternative #1 thing hurting Democrats right now among their most consistent supporters).
Yeah it's pretty discouraging that they cannot even act on these things which are so pressing and fundamental. I guess there is still some time but the clock is ticking (and too bad to all the women in Texas who need abortions right now).
|
Northern Ireland26006 Posts
@Starlightsun I would assume part of it is the populace not really understanding how governmental mechanisms actually work?
I mean it seems overly simplistic but I can’t really think of a better one. Ringfencing this from other, completely legitimate criticism of Biden’s tenure thus far.
Given the (as far as I understand it) general flip of the legislature in the midterms generally against the incumbent’s party. It makes sense to happen from time to time as a reaction to a President performing badly or enacting unpopular policies as part of the standard political sensibility shifts, but it also seems to happen when a President ‘isn’t getting enough done’, which given that the legislature is the hurdle to getting said things done doesn’t make a huge amount of sense to stack it further against those policies.
While not reflected in terms of overall appeal, in terms of favourability to his cohort, with Trump it was almost the inverse. He’d posture and say things that were absolutely beyond the powers afforded to him by the Office, tread over lines of convention and people lapped it up, despite ultimately being meaningless in terms of tangible legislative results:
|
On November 03 2021 04:00 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 18:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 02 2021 17:27 Starlightsun wrote:
It feels like Biden's first two years have been filled with crisis after crisis. Pandemic, Afghanistan, immigrant surge, and bunch of natural disasters. And this is on top of inheriting the disjointed mess of incompetence and malice that previous administration left, crowned by January 6th. Combined with an obstinate congress with insufficient majority, I don't know what people are expecting him to do besides be some kind of FDR or something which I don't know is even possible in this age. I still hold hope that with 4 years they will make some progress at least rather than fling us all into the abyss. Democrats failing on protecting voting rights for the people they need to vote for them in order to secure anything else is probably the biggest one hurting Biden/Democrats among their most consistent supporters currently. I personally think Biden/Democrats are practically malevolent by way of their policy (most indisputably their globally maligned sanctions) but even their most loyal supporters are struggling to swallow their incompetence in protecting voting rights and women's bodily autonomy (which I'd say is potentially an alternative #1 thing hurting Democrats right now among their most consistent supporters). Yeah it's pretty discouraging that they cannot even act on these things which are so pressing and fundamental. I guess there is still some time but the clock is ticking (and too bad to all the women in Texas who need abortions right now).
I know you mean "too bad" in a sympathetic way but functionally it is indistinguishable from meaning it in the sarcastic way.
|
On November 03 2021 04:00 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 22:03 LegalLord wrote:On November 02 2021 17:27 Starlightsun wrote:
It feels like Biden's first two years have been filled with crisis after crisis. Pandemic, Afghanistan, immigrant surge, and bunch of natural disasters. And this is on top of inheriting the disjointed mess of incompetence and malice that previous administration left, crowned by January 6th. Combined with an obstinate congress with insufficient majority, I don't know what people are expecting him to do besides be some kind of FDR or something which I don't know is even possible in this age. I still hold hope that with 4 years they will make some progress at least rather than fling us all into the abyss. This seems quite disingenuous in lionizing the meager work that Biden's administration managed to get done. The only thing in your "crisis after crisis" list that qualifies as an actual crisis is the pandemic, and it's far easier to manage the tail end of that, where a vaccine has been developed and is actively scaling up production, than to be on the front end when there's endless trouble and no obvious way to handle it. Afghanistan being an inevitable loss, the border situation being messy, and nondescript natural disasters occurring are little more than the long-time reality of the world we live in, and the only real notable accomplishment Biden can claim within that was killing an aid worker and his family during the withdrawal and claiming it was ISIS. No major foreign policy events beyond an unceremonious Afghanistan withdrawal, an economy still coked up on enough stimulus that it doesn't look like it's collapsing yet, and the tail end of a pandemic. Not even close to being one of the toughest presidencies so far. Some people expect so little that they can make lists of minor changes Biden made and convince themselves that that makes for a good president. If the bar is "not being as bad as Trump," he certainly manages to squeeze out the bare minimum to meet that bar. But apparently he would have to be "some kind of FDR" to achieve more than that, such as perhaps one or two meaningful policy victories in the course of a presidency. Too much to hope for, evidently. Perhaps crisis was a bad choice of word. I certainly don't mean to lionize him as having emerged triumphant over crises. It's just been my impression that almost every week there's a new round of bad press over an intractable problem whose solution will require years or is largely outside the power of the executive branch. I don't understand why Biden is becoming so maligned when it is the legislative branch holding the cards right now and standing in the way. I thought of FDR and the credit he is given for influencing the congress and even the courts to pass the sweeping reforms he wanted. But of course circumstances are very different now and I was thinking of the two presidents in contrast regarding their charisma and I guess "force of will". It's still my impression that Biden's intents have been surprisingly progressive but that he is hamstrung by the congress.
Biden definitely can't be blamed for everything that went wrong; I don't blame him-as-president for the overall deteriorating situation in Afghanistan for example. Of the direct blunders you could lay at his feet, you'll definitely rack up a couple: the botched circumstances of the Afghanistan withdrawal (including the drone strike mistake) and failure to get widespread buy-in to the vaccine mandate are two that come to mind. But I don't think those are the real problem.
I suspect the core of Biden's unpopularity stems from two factors: his lack of meaningful engagement with the public and the lack of his administration's ability to make progress on policy. On public engagement, his administration largely hides him from view and deals largely through unpopular delegates and press secretaries. When he does speak, it tends to be in a way that steps on toes and fails to garner sympathy, eroding the public goodwill that is already lacking. And as for policy - there sure seems to be a whole lot of blamestorming for his administration's inability to get either the progressives or the moderates of the party on board with his plans. Not that I blame them; the progressives for example have good precedent to believe that they will be trampled on if they go along with the party line, and therefore little reason to compromise in a way that is surrender in all but name.
Neither of these jobs is easy, but Biden is failing at both of them. FDR in contrast had similar ordeals (a need to communicate with the public and resistance in Congress & the courts) but handled them much better. Watching Biden, though, seems very much like watching an administration failing to legislate and blundering with executive-driven initiatives. The entire budget ceiling debate for example was one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while, and managed to be one of the few "government shutdown" type events where the public was largely of the opinion that the Democrats were to blame (rightfully so, since they seemed to run around like headless chickens crying to sympathetic media outlets instead of taking one of the direct options they had to resolve that self-created crisis).
In short, there is a clear failure to govern, and the excuses of "but obstruction" largely ring hollow in the eyes of the populace at large. The growing disapproval rating of Biden seems to track quite well to the growing instances of this happening, and over time you get more and more people who no longer have that benefit of the doubt. That seems to be the public sentiment I can gauge, so it's not really much wonder to me why Biden is drawing the flak he is.
|
Hoping for McAuliffe to pull out the victory shortly
|
|
|
On November 03 2021 07:59 plasmidghost wrote:
Hoping for McAuliffe to pull out the victory shortly
I’ve been hearing NoVa hasn’t been big for turnout, it’s going to be very tight and probably in Youngkins favor
|
On November 03 2021 08:08 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 07:59 plasmidghost wrote:
Hoping for McAuliffe to pull out the victory shortly I’ve been hearing NoVa hasn’t been big for turnout, it’s going to be very tight and probably in Youngkins favor
Fairfax Dems say turnout there was higher than expected today, which is concerning for Dems for it being election day
|
Last I heard Fairfax turnout was low, why is it bad that Fairfax had high turnout though, that should make Democrats happy given they’re basically carried by Nova
|
So.. I just read in a german newspaper that some QAnon dipshits gathered somewhere because they expected a "reincarnated" JFK Jr. to lead them to victory, so Trump can discover the pedophiles in the deep state and sentence them to death?
Genuinely, how are people this insane, and i mean objectively insane allowed to carry weapons and roam free?
In regards to Manchin etc, .. Could someone explain to me why it'd be better to have his and other "conservatively democrat" seats given to republicans? I'm not entirely sure i follow that argument, i assume i'm missing something in the detail/nuance of governing in the US.
|
Manchin makes Democrats look weak and stupid and hurts their national image, thus hurting other races in other states.
|
United States24740 Posts
The Democrats should have dumped Manchin and planned to work constructively with McConnell when he was renewed as Senate Majority Leader.
|
To be fair I don’t think it’s possible to work constructively with McConnell, his thing is making sure things are as unconstructive as possible. Democrats just need to accept trying to win lean majorities, whipping their members hard, and aggressively, like really aggressively, pursue their agenda. People are tired of their weakness and their empty promises.
|
On November 03 2021 08:12 Zambrah wrote:
Last I heard Fairfax turnout was low, why is it bad that Fairfax had high turnout though, that should make Democrats happy given they’re basically carried by Nova
I was thinking because Election Day voters are very GOP-leaning, but that remains to be seen. Don't see any results from Fairfax yet
|
Loudon at D+7 this year. Was at +25 Biden last year
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
