EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3347
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
Totally acceptable to me. My family will benefit a lot from this. Of course I wish for more, but so long as rural American is at the negotiation table, this is what we’re gonna get. If we want better, we need to work on addressing the cultural deficiencies of rural Americans. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32746 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On October 29 2021 00:53 Mohdoo wrote: https://www.whitehouse.gov/build-back-better/ Totally acceptable to me. My family will benefit a lot from this. Of course I wish for more, but so long as rural American is at the negotiation table, this is what we’re gonna get. If we want better, we need to work on addressing the cultural deficiencies of rural Americans. How long have we been saying that the best way to come up with money for federal programs is to invest in the IRS? They've been so woefully underfunded that any money that gets put in comes back manifold now. Being able to enforce a tax code that collects properly from the ultra wealthy will cover so much. I'm hopeful in general that this package can do what it sets out to do, but I know the reality scarcely lines up with a bulleted list. But, if anything resembling this bill gets passed, that's a huge feather in Biden's cap, so to speak. It will be a hugely significant accomplishment that we can point to as being the result of a coherent president and a Democratic majority, and that we can see more of it with a bigger majority. The success of this bill could seriously drive up turnout in '22. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23848 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Tucker Carlson is coming with a 'documentary' about how Jan 6 is a false flag and how poor honest white nationalists are now treated worse than Taliban. Batshit insane but also scary given how large his audience is. "The helicopters have left Afghanistan, and have now landed here at home. The left is HUNTING the right' + Show Spoiler + What kind of message does he want to send when he clips Biden talking about white nationalist extremists and equates that to his entire viewing audience though. Is that a mask off moment? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 29 2021 02:13 GreenHorizons wrote: lmao Biden trying to pull a fast one on progressives in the house. Kudos to them for not biting on it yet. The progressives have no negotiating power. Sinema and Manchin don't give half a shit if this bill passes or not. They don't need it. Progressives are more in touch with the struggles of the middle class and they know that even JUST the child tax credit will be a huge impact to millions of families. They won't nuke the bill under any circumstances. The moderates know this, so they ultimately will always win this game of chicken because they simply don't care. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 29 2021 02:24 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: So with more evidence of conservative lawmakers being involved with January 6, Fox News is now going full Infowars on the general conservative public in a counter move it seems Tucker Carlson is coming with a 'documentary' about how Jan 6 is a false flag and how poor honest white nationalists are now treated worse than Taliban. Batshit insane but also scary given how large his audience is. "The helicopters have left Afghanistan, and have now landed here at home. The left is HUNTING the right' + Show Spoiler + What kind of message does he want to send when he clips Biden talking about white nationalist extremists and equates that to his entire viewing audience though. Is that a mask off moment? How do other countries handle this kind of stuff? It feels obvious to me that there should be some checks and consequences for this sort of thing, but of course we must still protect free speech and press. I feel like Carlson representing himself as a journalist is like me pretending I'm a heart surgeon. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 29 2021 03:21 Starlightsun wrote: How do other countries handle this kind of stuff? It feels obvious to me that there should be some checks and consequences for this sort of thing, but of course we must still protect free speech and press. I feel like Carlson representing himself as a journalist is like me pretending I'm a heart surgeon. I generally refer to this as the pendulum problem. The US was founded while being really sensitive/PTSD'd by authoritarianism/monarchy. So we kinda went overboard with a lot of things. Fox News can freely do this as much as they like because the pendulum swung way too far as a reaction to previous authoritarianism. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23848 Posts
On October 29 2021 03:02 Mohdoo wrote: The progressives have no negotiating power. Sinema and Manchin don't give half a shit if this bill passes or not. They don't need it. Progressives are more in touch with the struggles of the middle class and they know that even JUST the child tax credit will be a huge impact to millions of families. They won't nuke the bill under any circumstances. The moderates know this, so they ultimately will always win this game of chicken because they simply don't care. As I understand it they do want the Republican approved infrastructure to pass though, so there's no promise they pass even this paltry "framework" of the BBB if progressives pass that first. EDIT: Funny that the only reason the child tax credit thing was only 1 year in the first place was precisely so it could be used as a bludgeon like this. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 29 2021 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote: As I understand it they do want the Republican approved infrastructure to pass though, so there's no promise they pass even this paltry "framework" of the BBB if progressives pass that first. EDIT: Funny that the only reason the child tax credit thing was only 1 year in the first place was precisely so it could be used as a bludgeon like this. Sinema and Manchin have no actual reason to care if it passes other than their industry partners getting gov contractors from the extra spending. They simply don't care about people. The child tax credit and the child care stuff are just so giant, when I think about what my childhood was like. Would have completely and totally changed my life as a kid. I don't care how they are doing it, if they are doing it, millions of kids will live significantly better lives. Let me know when you decide to travel to WV to convince rural folks, I'll join you. Until then, we get whatever seeps out of their rotting heads. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23848 Posts
On October 29 2021 04:06 Mohdoo wrote: Sinema and Manchin have no actual reason to care if it passes other than their industry partners getting gov contractors from the extra spending. They simply don't care about people. The child tax credit and the child care stuff are just so giant, when I think about what my childhood was like. Would have completely and totally changed my life as a kid. I don't care how they are doing it, if they are doing it, millions of kids will live significantly better lives. Let me know when you decide to travel to WV to convince rural folks, I'll join you. Until then, we get whatever seeps out of their rotting heads. My point on that was that Democrats chose to make it only last 1 year so they could use it as a talking point for the BBB. The child tax credit extension being contingent on BBB passing was a cynical political choice that intentionally put children in danger of falling right back into poverty so that centrist Democrats would have the talking point you're using to bludgeon their more progressive members with. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 29 2021 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote: My point on that was that Democrats chose to make it only last 1 year so they could use it as a talking point for the BBB. The child tax credit extension being contingent on BBB passing was a cynical political choice that intentionally put children in danger of falling right back into poverty so that Democrats would have the talking point you're using. None of this is new, of course this is true. Democrats are not uniform or all the same. It is a coalition. Ron Wyden is not the one making this happen. So long as they need a senator who comes from rural bumfuck areas to vote yes, they're gonna be gimping everything. You are wildly underestimating what rural America's perspectives really are. They do NOT like the idea of government debt, they don't want people getting free childcare, it is archaic. It is not some wild accident that Manchin and Sinema got elected. They were elected by a different demographic than Wyden. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 29 2021 06:10 LegalLord wrote: We have no choice - because of the rural people, progressives have to just accept whatever terms because the child tax credit is being held hostage. Those policies, darn it, but think of the children! It’s easy to post Twitter quality stuff like this, but what’s your perspective? What kind of political philosophies do you think elect Manchin? How do those perspectives differ from Wyden voters? Of course different demographics elect different people. Mississippi has different social trends when compared to Oregon. West Virginia is somewhere in between. Democrats have 50 senators because they lost the other 50 elections, because those voters didn’t want those ideas. It is the same reason republicans don’t win in Oregon. Someone can’t run on antivax anti women and win in Oregon.When democrats have more progressive senators, they get to pass progressive things. Manchin isn’t progressive, so if they want anything at all, it needs his vote. There is no mechanism of pressuring Manchin. He’s as safe as safe gets and he has wealth independent of his position in government. There’s a reason we are here and we knew we would be here 6 months ago. It’s not like there’s some kinda “wtf Manchin doesn’t back universal parent leave???” Another thing to point out is Manchin is 74 years old. He comes from a generation that legitimately believes poor people should be punished for being poor. If we even get a 1.5T bill, it will be a blessing. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On October 29 2021 03:21 Starlightsun wrote: How do other countries handle this kind of stuff? It feels obvious to me that there should be some checks and consequences for this sort of thing, but of course we must still protect free speech and press. I feel like Carlson representing himself as a journalist is like me pretending I'm a heart surgeon. They don't. Because it doesn't exist. Not in the mainstream media. Most countries do have leaning papers, either conservative or liberal, but i've lived in three countries now, and not a single one had anywhere near the US level of shitfuckery in the media. Just look at "we" react towards Tucker Carlson. That's how the vast(!) majority, i'd argue over 90% of the population, reacts to retarded conspiracy theories. Yeah, we do have a few anti-vaxxers, but you'll not see a major tv outlet giving a stage to people like Carlson. In the UK, the closest "media figure" to Tucker Carlson would probably be Tommy Robinson. Multiple criminal convictions (including libelling a muslim). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist) The US is a very "special" place when it comes to mainstream white nationalists. Or actually, white nationalists and racists in general. Every country of course has racists, but in the US it's acceptable - because half the media peddles that sentiment. That's unique in the western world. In any other country, be it the BBC, ARD/ZDF etc pp. a "journalist" would be fired hours after a statement like that. Tucker Carlson is one of the scummiest, disgusting and despicable people currently alive. One of the very few people i genuinely think the world would be better off without. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26540 Posts
No it can’t be a collective breakdown and tantrum over their guy losing, against all evidence that spiralled into storming the Capitol Building. Nah it’s yet another crazy conspiracy of course! There’s always some explanatory conspiracy to redirect away from facing and having to reflect that your ideas and conduct are pretty shitty Although Jesus I thought Carlson was mostly bad, with the odd good take, not quite this mental, granted I don’t consume much of his content | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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