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On March 11 2021 11:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 09:37 Mohdoo wrote:On March 11 2021 08:09 WombaT wrote:On March 11 2021 07:12 Mohdoo wrote:On March 11 2021 06:30 farvacola wrote:
Soon enough McDonalds locations won't need to employ even a single living person, so that's a weird future problem to worry about. Hopefully sooner than later. As was the case with every single job that became irrelevant and unnecessary throughout history (typists, people who connect phone calls...the list is enormous), humanity benefitted. I’m not sure that trend continues in perpetuity without serious societal restructuring, at some stage. I’d like to be optimistic on adaptation but hm Until we've colonized the entire universe there will always be work to do. We've restructured our culture and society numerous times since humanity was living in caves. We'll do it hundreds of times after automation. I do hope we meet the basic material needs of all the people on this planet before we start creating poor people on other planets.
We'll always have poor people or lower end classes on earth. The population is just too big at this point with resources depleting. That is unless Amazon starts "Life Fulfillment Centers! Where you get the best life for you and your future families. 40% of the United States is already choosing a more fulfilled life."
Then you could have a majority "middle class". However doom follows that path. 200 years go by. But instead of skynet taking over, people just forget how to manage and* update these centers. Eventually civilization becomes trapped in these fulfillment centers and starvation runs rampant. The elites who once managed Amazon fell to excess and degradation. No one but the great Metric has any say in the direction, and shutting down centers becomes the only way to keep the algorithm gods happy. The extremely poor people around the world who were forced into the wilderness long long ago no longer hide from the Enforcer Drones, and they begin to come back into the deserted cities and Life Fulfillment Centers. As they pry open the doors to the centers, only a race that has never seen the sun emerges. The wilderness people must now restart civilization and learn to never go the route of Amazon Crime ever again.
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On March 11 2021 12:28 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 11:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 11 2021 09:37 Mohdoo wrote:On March 11 2021 08:09 WombaT wrote:On March 11 2021 07:12 Mohdoo wrote:On March 11 2021 06:30 farvacola wrote:
Soon enough McDonalds locations won't need to employ even a single living person, so that's a weird future problem to worry about. Hopefully sooner than later. As was the case with every single job that became irrelevant and unnecessary throughout history (typists, people who connect phone calls...the list is enormous), humanity benefitted. I’m not sure that trend continues in perpetuity without serious societal restructuring, at some stage. I’d like to be optimistic on adaptation but hm Until we've colonized the entire universe there will always be work to do. We've restructured our culture and society numerous times since humanity was living in caves. We'll do it hundreds of times after automation. I do hope we meet the basic material needs of all the people on this planet before we start creating poor people on other planets. There will always be poor people. Always.
Definitely not once cold fusion is a thing. Scarcity of resources completely vanishes when you're able to create whichever atoms you want. We're able to just manufacture gold today but its cost prohibitive due to the energy required.
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We'll always have poor people or
lower end classes on earth.
Those are different things as I understand them. I'm an advocate of communism (so I reject both), but I'd hope we at least eliminate earthbound absolute poverty (this doesn't mean there is no economic inequality) before having people off earth living in absolute poverty (or struggling to simply live a dignified life imo).
It's a sad statement on our society that it's probably so much easier for us to imagine luxury space hotels staffed with people that can't afford to leave them than an earth where everyone has food, water, clothing, shelter, sanitation, education, and healthcare even if they can't find another job after being replaced by a robot.
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On March 11 2021 13:02 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 12:28 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On March 11 2021 11:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 11 2021 09:37 Mohdoo wrote:On March 11 2021 08:09 WombaT wrote:On March 11 2021 07:12 Mohdoo wrote:On March 11 2021 06:30 farvacola wrote:
Soon enough McDonalds locations won't need to employ even a single living person, so that's a weird future problem to worry about. Hopefully sooner than later. As was the case with every single job that became irrelevant and unnecessary throughout history (typists, people who connect phone calls...the list is enormous), humanity benefitted. I’m not sure that trend continues in perpetuity without serious societal restructuring, at some stage. I’d like to be optimistic on adaptation but hm Until we've colonized the entire universe there will always be work to do. We've restructured our culture and society numerous times since humanity was living in caves. We'll do it hundreds of times after automation. I do hope we meet the basic material needs of all the people on this planet before we start creating poor people on other planets. There will always be poor people. Always. Definitely not once cold fusion is a thing. Scarcity of resources completely vanishes when you're able to create whichever atoms you want. We're able to just manufacture gold today but its cost prohibitive due to the energy required.
My point still stands.
Although, I'm sure this supplanted ecologically viable plan will come to light one day and we'll be safe ever after.
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On March 11 2021 07:12 JimmiC wrote:
Do places that have free post secondary require university to work at mcdonalds? I was under the impression they do not.
High school is free, is that even a requirement?
They do not. (As someone from Germany)
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On March 11 2021 13:22 GreenHorizons wrote: Those are different things as I understand them. I'm an advocate of communism (so I reject both), but I'd hope we at least eliminate earthbound absolute poverty (this doesn't mean there is no economic inequality) before having people off earth living in absolute poverty (or struggling to simply live a dignified life imo). It's a sad statement on our society that it's probably so much easier for us to imagine luxury space hotels staffed with people that can't afford to leave them than an earth where everyone has food, water, clothing, shelter, sanitation, education, and healthcare even if they can't find another job after being replaced by a robot.
I don't think its sad to imagine a Tranquility Base Hotel + Casino. I can also have the hope that the progress made from getting there makes a better society for everyone on earth. Mars / Moon colonies in 100 to 200 years will not be a Bladerunner off-world scenario. I think if we get there States on earth will has less of an edge to them. Communism doesn't work well with space faring folks though.
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On March 11 2021 13:59 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 07:12 JimmiC wrote:
Do places that have free post secondary require university to work at mcdonalds? I was under the impression they do not.
High school is free, is that even a requirement? They do not. (As someone from Germany)
When I was in high school, I got a job at Home Depot that paid $10 an hour - that was above the minimum wage of $8 at the time and I was pretty stoked (And I worked holidays for 1.5x pay, because hell yes $15 an hour). As you know Jimmi, schools in Canada are free. Definitely better than Walmart. I remember being super jealous of a friend who got a costco job in high school (something like $14 an hour at that point), but I was still better off than my friends without jobs.
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On March 11 2021 15:02 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 13:22 GreenHorizons wrote:We'll always have poor people or
lower end classes on earth. Those are different things as I understand them. I'm an advocate of communism (so I reject both), but I'd hope we at least eliminate earthbound absolute poverty (this doesn't mean there is no economic inequality) before having people off earth living in absolute poverty (or struggling to simply live a dignified life imo). It's a sad statement on our society that it's probably so much easier for us to imagine luxury space hotels staffed with people that can't afford to leave them than an earth where everyone has food, water, clothing, shelter, sanitation, education, and healthcare even if they can't find another job after being replaced by a robot. I don't think its sad to imagine a Tranquility Base Hotel + Casino. I can also have the hope that the progress made from getting there makes a better society for everyone on earth. Mars / Moon colonies in 100 to 200 years will not be a Bladerunner off-world scenario. I think if we get there States on earth will has less of an edge to them. Communism doesn't work well with space faring folks though.
The sad part is the idea that we would let ourselves build a luxury hotel in space before people on earth (hell, just the US) had reliably safe drinking water. That's not even something we can't do with the resources on earth now, we just prioritize them elsewhere so as a result those people suffer/die.
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On March 11 2021 17:34 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 15:02 Husyelt wrote:On March 11 2021 13:22 GreenHorizons wrote:We'll always have poor people or
lower end classes on earth. Those are different things as I understand them. I'm an advocate of communism (so I reject both), but I'd hope we at least eliminate earthbound absolute poverty (this doesn't mean there is no economic inequality) before having people off earth living in absolute poverty (or struggling to simply live a dignified life imo). It's a sad statement on our society that it's probably so much easier for us to imagine luxury space hotels staffed with people that can't afford to leave them than an earth where everyone has food, water, clothing, shelter, sanitation, education, and healthcare even if they can't find another job after being replaced by a robot. I don't think its sad to imagine a Tranquility Base Hotel + Casino. I can also have the hope that the progress made from getting there makes a better society for everyone on earth. Mars / Moon colonies in 100 to 200 years will not be a Bladerunner off-world scenario. I think if we get there States on earth will has less of an edge to them. Communism doesn't work well with space faring folks though. The sad part is the idea that we would let ourselves build a luxury hotel in space before people on earth (hell, just the US) had reliably safe drinking water. That's not even something we can't do with the resources on earth now, we just prioritize them elsewhere so as a result those people suffer/die.
If you provide people with easy access to luxuries such as clean water, plentiful food, and reliable access to housing, who knows what crazy ideas they might get. Better make sure the proles at the bottom are busy competing with one another over that minimum wage job, best way to keep them from asking too many questions.
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To be fair, the technology needed to create access to reliable access to clean water and food on the moon will require a lot of innovations that could very well assist us on earth. Just like a lot of other technology, which originated from space exploration, are benefiting both poor and rich these days.
One can do more than just one thing at the time as a civilization.
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It's not like we have to chose between a space program and drinking water for everyone either, really. Not that I am fond of space being a luxury for uber rich people, but if that means an incentive for investment into the technologies that will make science and exploration possible later, that's a positive.
I'd rather billionaires burn their money into million dollars trip to space than into more golden super yachts.
As for drinking water, again it reminds me when I was told to finish my vegetable because kids are starving in Africa.
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I don't know if you intended this as a joke but there is a very real hamburger university that McDonalds runs and gives out degrees in hamburgerology to its staff.
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On March 12 2021 00:10 JimmiC wrote:
It gets complicated on all these things. We have had people here spending 100k on traveling to Dubai to get early vaccination. A lot of people want to offer it early to those willing to pay the stupid high price as it would fund so many others. However, the lack of fairness of rich people getting first really bugs most everyone. But if we don't allow it they still get it first and other Canadians don't benefit.
There are so many questions where there is no "right" answer and rather a bunch of less than ideal choices where you are trying to pick the "best".
I'm with you on space over yaucht, as space advancement should have other benefits. But I also understand the frustration as we continue to build wealth globally and so many are left behind. I mean every single person who posts on this site is privileged when we look globally just be having access to the internet and a device to post and yet chances are the wealthiest person who posts here is still 10000x or more less wealthy than Bezos.
That’s fascinating and if I was in charge of some poor country that can’t afford vaccines, I think it’s a great idea. If selling vaccines has a net benefit of allowing more people to be vaccinated, sounds like a win. That being said, richer countries should instead simply donate vaccines.
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On March 12 2021 01:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 00:44 Mohdoo wrote:On March 12 2021 00:10 JimmiC wrote:
It gets complicated on all these things. We have had people here spending 100k on traveling to Dubai to get early vaccination. A lot of people want to offer it early to those willing to pay the stupid high price as it would fund so many others. However, the lack of fairness of rich people getting first really bugs most everyone. But if we don't allow it they still get it first and other Canadians don't benefit.
There are so many questions where there is no "right" answer and rather a bunch of less than ideal choices where you are trying to pick the "best".
I'm with you on space over yaucht, as space advancement should have other benefits. But I also understand the frustration as we continue to build wealth globally and so many are left behind. I mean every single person who posts on this site is privileged when we look globally just be having access to the internet and a device to post and yet chances are the wealthiest person who posts here is still 10000x or more less wealthy than Bezos. That’s fascinating and if I was in charge of some poor country that can’t afford vaccines, I think it’s a great idea. If selling vaccines has a net benefit of allowing more people to be vaccinated, sounds like a win. That being said, richer countries should instead simply donate vaccines. I agree, Canada did order enough vaccines for the entire population several times over (I believe we ordered the most per capita of any country) with the plan to donate the extras to low income countries once we have all we need. Not perfect because its us first but at least we will be donating the extra and not trying to sell them or something.
In a situation where the goal is for everyone to be vaccinated, I don't have problems with the ethics of countries prioritizing themselves first. So long as they are administering vaccines, thumbs up from me. The other thing is that countries have a huge incentive to help countries like Brazil because as we have seen, its gonna spread if its out there. The USA is safer, selfishly, by donating excess vaccines to Brazil.
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On March 11 2021 21:42 Neneu wrote:
To be fair, the technology needed to create access to reliable access to clean water and food on the moon will require a lot of innovations that could very well assist us on earth. Just like a lot of other technology, which originated from space exploration, are benefiting both poor and rich these days.
One can do more than just one thing at the time as a civilization.
To be fair the US already has the technology and money required to ensure residents here have reliably safe drinking water and chooses not to so those people have been getting poisoned, suffering, dying for decades.
It's not that we can't do 2 things, or that innovations can't come from space exploration, it's about prioritization. That despite already having the economic and technological capacity to do the reliably safe drinking water, we'll get a space hotel first.
People are suffering and dying because of this prioritization.
On March 11 2021 18:49 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 17:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 11 2021 15:02 Husyelt wrote:On March 11 2021 13:22 GreenHorizons wrote:We'll always have poor people or
lower end classes on earth. Those are different things as I understand them. I'm an advocate of communism (so I reject both), but I'd hope we at least eliminate earthbound absolute poverty (this doesn't mean there is no economic inequality) before having people off earth living in absolute poverty (or struggling to simply live a dignified life imo). It's a sad statement on our society that it's probably so much easier for us to imagine luxury space hotels staffed with people that can't afford to leave them than an earth where everyone has food, water, clothing, shelter, sanitation, education, and healthcare even if they can't find another job after being replaced by a robot. I don't think its sad to imagine a Tranquility Base Hotel + Casino. I can also have the hope that the progress made from getting there makes a better society for everyone on earth. Mars / Moon colonies in 100 to 200 years will not be a Bladerunner off-world scenario. I think if we get there States on earth will has less of an edge to them. Communism doesn't work well with space faring folks though. The sad part is the idea that we would let ourselves build a luxury hotel in space before people on earth (hell, just the US) had reliably safe drinking water. That's not even something we can't do with the resources on earth now, we just prioritize them elsewhere so as a result those people suffer/die. If you provide people with easy access to luxuries such as clean water, plentiful food, and reliable access to housing, who knows what crazy ideas they might get. Better make sure the proles at the bottom are busy competing with one another over that minimum wage job, best way to keep them from asking too many questions.
Hard to argue with what's working for em.
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EPT
