EPTNow companies exhaust their supply of private capital and hold IPOs to get more investment for fundamentally unprofitable business models. If you can bet on a company's popularity, you can also bet against it. The stock price of Uber, Tesla, Gamestop, none of them have any connection to reality. It's not systemic in the sense of pervasive, but it's a systemic trait that these outlier stocks inevitably exist... Looking at the hoops they jump through to protect their own. How often is trading suspended because of share price going UP too much?
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3060
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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oBlade
United States6074 Posts
Now companies exhaust their supply of private capital and hold IPOs to get more investment for fundamentally unprofitable business models. If you can bet on a company's popularity, you can also bet against it. The stock price of Uber, Tesla, Gamestop, none of them have any connection to reality. It's not systemic in the sense of pervasive, but it's a systemic trait that these outlier stocks inevitably exist... Looking at the hoops they jump through to protect their own. How often is trading suspended because of share price going UP too much? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On January 28 2021 23:13 EnDeR_ wrote: It feels so wrong to me that you can make literal millions with the click of a button (i.e. 'investing'), but someone working 12h a day in two part-time jobs can still be in poverty. Well, you can also make literal millions with the click of a button in a casino  | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Now, what's unique about this is that pretty much everyone politically is calling foul on this manuever. AOC is getting retweeted by Ted Cruz, etc. (Though her response of his "I fully agree" is pretty biting, noting that his actions almost got her killed). | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8744 Posts
that is as a cool a story as only life itself can write it. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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brian
United States9640 Posts
On January 29 2021 03:51 Erasme wrote: Let's see if this goes anywhere, because i wouldn't put money on it. frankly i have some faith that it might get legs in support of the hedge funds if anything. though it is eye opening that some GOP are coming out against these exceptionally stupid moves. these are the people that have the money to influence media and politics. just read this shit. they are. HEROES. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2021/01/28/ignore-the-populist-gamestop-hype-short-sellers-are-heroes/ | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9037 Posts
But we both know it won't go anywhere. A paltry fine is all they'll receive. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22283 Posts
On January 29 2021 03:57 brian wrote: the GOP coming out against it can just be trying to appeal to the 'fuck the system' crowd. As others have said, lets see actions because words are cheap.frankly i have some faith that it might get legs in support of the hedge funds if anything. though it is eye opening that some GOP are coming out against these exceptionally stupid moves. these are the people that have the money to influence media and politics. just read this shit. they are. HEROES. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2021/01/28/ignore-the-populist-gamestop-hype-short-sellers-are-heroes/ | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Some of the people affected are already doing things like trying to coordinate small claims court cases. This is what a class action is usually for, but those have been exceptionally limited recently. The basic premise is that if you take RH to small claims for the $500-2k they owe you, they're not going to be able to send lawyers to respond to each of the people with a valid claim (the argument is that they arbitrarily blocked their customers from using their service). Whether this is a super strong claim or not doesn't actually matter, as at this point it's almost entirely about spite and forcing RH to burn all their capitol defending themselves from thousands of small claims (this is actually on the very low end of cases: apparently 40% of their fairly large userbase owned gamestop stock). Whether or not that's a good plan, I dunno, but as most of the people doing this seem to have been doing it entirely to fuck over a couple hedge funds, you can bet they're willing to burn a bit of additional cash to make it stick. That's just one example of something I read earlier that has already had paperwork filed by some individuals. There are thousands of people trying to find a way to fuck RH over in addition to any hedge funds now, and they've found some amusing state laws and regulations in the process. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 29 2021 04:06 Nevuk wrote: There's definitely gonna be some hearings on it and I personally think robinhood is fucked. They affected too many people with this decision, did it super sloppily (like, they revoked trades without notice or cause and left PROOF that they did it), and they have openly noted massive conflicts of interest. Additionally, all of their positive PR is gone now. Their entire motto and mission statement are now openly contradicted by their actions. Some of the people affected are already doing things like trying to coordinate small claims court cases. This is what a class action is usually for, but those have been exceptionally limited recently. The basic premise is that if you take RH to small claims for the $500-2k they owe you, they're not going to be able to send lawyers to respond to each of the people with a valid claim (the argument is that they arbitrarily blocked their customers from using their service). Whether this is a super strong claim or not doesn't actually matter, as at this point it's almost entirely about spite and forcing RH to burn all their capitol defending themselves from thousands of small claims (this is actually on the very low end of cases: apparently 40% of their fairly large userbase owned gamestop stock). Whether or not that's a good plan, I dunno, but as most of the people doing this seem to have been doing it entirely to fuck over a couple hedge funds, you can bet they're willing to burn a bit of additional cash to make it stick. That's just one example of something I read earlier that has already had paperwork filed by some individuals. There are thousands of people trying to find a way to fuck RH over in addition to any hedge funds now, and they've found some amusing state laws and regulations in the process. This was a calculated move on Citadel's part. They loaned Melvin Captial who stand to lose billions of dollars. They also own Robinhood. Any losses in court or a fine by the SEC will be chump change compared to what they would have lost. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22283 Posts
On January 29 2021 04:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: exactly, they don't care about millions worth of damage when your preventing tens of billions.This was a calculated move on Citadel's part. They loaned Melvin Captial who stand to lose billions of dollars. They also own Robinhood. Any losses in court or a fine by the SEC will be chump change compared to what they would have lost. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 29 2021 04:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: This was a calculated move on Robinhood's part. They're owned by the same that own Melvin Captial who stand to lose billions of dollars. Any losses in court or a fine by the SEC will be chump change compared to what they would have lost. Robinhood itself is dead, though. Who is going to use an app that claims to be for the little people after it openly sold them out to save a hedge fund? There are already 2 federal lawsuits targeted at them, within a few hours. (One class action in NY and one normal one in Illinois). I'm betting the damages are going to be in the billions here, not millions. This is mostly because their coverup has been so fucking poorly done. If a total moron on WSB notices you leaving cookies on his device that scream "hey, I did this illegally", you fucked up baaad. It's still probably cheaper than a short squeeze for citadel... but I don't think it stopped the short squeeze at all. There are other trading options being used to do the same thing now. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 29 2021 04:36 Nevuk wrote: Robinhood itself is dead, though. Who is going to use an app that claims to be for the little people after it openly sold them out to save a hedge fund? Robinhood was always owned by big money though. If people bought the lies last week, last month, last year then why not next week? On January 29 2021 04:36 Nevuk wrote: It's still probably cheaper than a short squeeze for citadel... but I don't think it stopped the short squeeze at all. There are other trading options being used to do the same thing now. The price tanked this morning. That allowed them to lose less money. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
Both politically as well as stock exchange adjustments and potential financial burdens would be of interest. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On January 29 2021 04:47 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Robinhood was always owned by big money though. If people bought the lies last week, last month, last year then why not next week? Everyone and their mother has heard about GME for starters. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 29 2021 04:47 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Robinhood was always owned by big money though. If people bought the lies last week, last month, last year then why not next week? Most people didn't actually know this. They do now. If GME stock owners had made up .4% of their user base then this could have been brushed under the rug. 40%? No way. Yeah, but they were SO brazen about it. Are they going to face what they should? No. But they're going to face a lot worse than anyone since Maddoff. When you are seeing reports like this within 2-3 hours of the issue then there's bound to be paper trails out the wazoo. This is also an issue where there's not much disagreement politically. Hedge funds are despised by everyone and there's a huge sentiment on both sides that they never paid for their part in the 2007-8 crisis. They have gotten away with a lot of their shit simply by almost never having attention focused on them - they're a boring, complex topic and their wrong doings usually involve confusing mechanisms like tacit agreements about short selling. This is now a very easy to understand issue : they directly colluded to prevent poorer people from buying a stock. It also puts to lie a lot of the "stock market is for everyone" myth (it already wasn't, but not in the same brazen way - before it was mostly about buying able to trade after hours) that is a direct threat to the power of the wealthy in the country. If it becomes apparent that you're playing on a tilted table, then the fish that the wealthy make much of their money off of will stop playing. Other billionaires aren't going to care that the poor people got screwed over. They're going to care about how blatantly OBVIOUS it is that they were screwed over, as that's a threat to their way of life. Also, according to what I've been reading, the price crash this morning was entirely market manipulation by hedge funds selling to each other to simulate the drop. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8744 Posts
Having worked in cable news for more than a decade after a wonderfully misspent youth in newspapers, I can tell you the result: a nation of news consumers both overfed and malnourished. Americans gorge themselves daily on empty informational calories, indulging their sugar fixes of self-affirming half-truths and even outright lies. Can anyone really be surprised that the problem has gotten worse in the last few years? Bias in the coverage of politics and government is nothing new. What is still relatively new is a marketplace that offers penalties for reporting the news but lots of rewards for indulging a consumer’s worst cravings. That's quite the FU to the media landscape at large and in particular to his former employer. Cable news producers work in a world of 15-minute increments in which their superiors can track even tiny changes in viewership. Ratings, combined with scads of market research, tell them what keeps viewers entranced and what makes them pick up their remotes. It’s no different from the pressure online outlets face to serve up items that will generate clicks and steer consumers ever deeper into the maw of “you might be interested in” content. Whatever the platform, the competitive advantage belongs to those who can best habituate consumers, which in the stunted, data-obsessed thinking of our time, means avoiding at almost any cost impinging on the reality so painstakingly built around them. As outlets have increasingly prioritized habituation over information, consumers have unsurprisingly become ever more sensitive to any interruption of their daily diet. . . . I remain confident that the current depredations of the digital revolution will pass, just as those of the telegraph, radio and broadcast television did. Americans grew into those media and providers learned to meet the demands of a more sophisticated marketplace. That’s the work that I’ve always aimed to do and hope to be part of for many years to come. What tugs at my mind after seeing a mob of enthusiastic ignoramuses sack the Capitol, though, is whether that sophistication will come quickly enough when outlets have the means to cater to every unhealthy craving of their consumers. It's really the perversion of the media sphere by completely abandoning the core tenets of it in favor of full blown market(ing) logic. telling accurately and diligently the news is less important than not losing readers/listeners/viewers by broadcasting something they might not like. or reporting something that goes against their sensibilities/political creed as more of a risk than staying as true as possible to the facts. media as a market place catering just about every worldview, no matter how idiotic and removed from reality. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9037 Posts
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