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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3058

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
EnDeR_
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Spain2944 Posts
January 27 2021 14:19 GMT
#61141
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.
estás más desubicao q un croissant en un plato de nécoras
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
January 27 2021 14:23 GMT
#61142
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 27 2021 14:30 GMT
#61143
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?

When we're looking at the 2020-21 bubble in hindsight, this will definitely be one of the stories that people who lived in the time and paid attention will tell. Bubble breakage happens on a long enough timescale that this would be a blip in the grand scheme of things, but it'll be "one of those moments" that signaled the end. To be honest we had two years of those kinds of moments in 2008 and one year in 2021, so it's just going to look painfully obvious in hindsight that all the bad things were coming.

We've been trying to bury a bad economy for 13 years and we might have finally reached the end of that being possible. It's just a matter of when the stock market catches up to the fact.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
EnDeR_
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Spain2944 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 14:33:48
January 27 2021 14:33 GMT
#61144
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.
estás más desubicao q un croissant en un plato de nécoras
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 27 2021 14:39 GMT
#61145
On January 27 2021 23:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.

People would certainly argue that, but they'd be wrong. Both Obama and Trump, in pursuit of "doing things right this time to avoid Great Depression 2.0", blew a gigantic asset bubble backed by an unprecedented mix of bad debt and endless money printing. The "real economy" has been anemic for a long time now (hence a decade of QE), although admittedly if you own a good portion of stocks and/or real estate you wouldn't have been complaining.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
January 27 2021 14:42 GMT
#61146
On January 27 2021 23:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.


Who is arguing that the economy that isnt the stock market has never been better? Theres massive wealth inequality in the US, during the pandemic alone billionaires have made absurd amounts of money as people lost their jobs, had to take on debt to survive, are under threat of eviction, etc.

To say the US economy is doing great would require basically blinding yourself to the grim realities of the economy that impacts actual human beings in favor of looking at the stock market alone. The stock market is not an accurate reflection of how Americans are doing economically, theres a reason when we talk about the non-stock market economy we start using terms like, "real economy," implying the stock market isn't the actual economy.

I'm also of the opinion that the awful state of the US economy for the working class is a large part of why we see people so ready and willing to tell the US Government to fuck off with Trumps and Trump-insurrections, etc. We're nearing that point of economic turmoil that really starts to piss off the population.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 14:56:08
January 27 2021 14:55 GMT
#61147
On January 27 2021 23:30 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?

When we're looking at the 2020-21 bubble in hindsight, this will definitely be one of the stories that people who lived in the time and paid attention will tell. Bubble breakage happens on a long enough timescale that this would be a blip in the grand scheme of things, but it'll be "one of those moments" that signaled the end. To be honest we had two years of those kinds of moments in 2008 and one year in 2021, so it's just going to look painfully obvious in hindsight that all the bad things were coming.

We've been trying to bury a bad economy for 13 years and we might have finally reached the end of that being possible. It's just a matter of when the stock market catches up to the fact.

High speed trading was one of the factor of the 2006 crisis. Reddit is just doing that slower so who fucking cares ? HST is still legal in the US so why would you focus on some fringe actors and not the main ones ?
Also called high frequency trading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
2010 Posts
January 27 2021 14:56 GMT
#61148
Does anyone argue that the stock market IS the economy? Other metrics like unemployment, growth, inflation, GDP, trade balance etc. are used just as much, if not more.
Buff the siegetank
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44335 Posts
January 27 2021 14:58 GMT
#61149
On January 27 2021 23:56 Slydie wrote:
Does anyone argue that the stock market IS the economy? Other metrics like unemployment, growth, inflation, GDP, trade balance etc. are used just as much, if not more.

Trump and most of his supporters used to.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 27 2021 15:00 GMT
#61150
--- Nuked ---
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 15:01:58
January 27 2021 15:01 GMT
#61151
Trump boasting about all the records made by the stock market during his presidency shows how little he understands it.
"Think about your stocks my dear blue collars friends!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 27 2021 15:01 GMT
#61152
On January 27 2021 23:55 Erasme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:30 LegalLord wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?

When we're looking at the 2020-21 bubble in hindsight, this will definitely be one of the stories that people who lived in the time and paid attention will tell. Bubble breakage happens on a long enough timescale that this would be a blip in the grand scheme of things, but it'll be "one of those moments" that signaled the end. To be honest we had two years of those kinds of moments in 2008 and one year in 2021, so it's just going to look painfully obvious in hindsight that all the bad things were coming.

We've been trying to bury a bad economy for 13 years and we might have finally reached the end of that being possible. It's just a matter of when the stock market catches up to the fact.

High speed trading was one of the factor of the 2006 crisis. Reddit is just doing that slower so who fucking cares ? HST is still legal in the US so why would you focus on some fringe actors and not the main ones ?
Also called high frequency trading.

In the grand scheme of things, the Gamestop situation is small fry - unlikely to touch any more than a few billion dollars of money throughout the lifetime of this squeeze. Pennies compared to the trillions of money-pump the government has been doing. But you have to admit, the optics of it look exactly like mania, the kind that make people think it's time to panic.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 15:03:08
January 27 2021 15:02 GMT
#61153
On January 28 2021 00:01 Erasme wrote:
Trump boasting about all the records made by the stock market during his presidency shows how little he understands it.
"Think about your stocks my dear blue collars friends!"

A big part of the problem is that, on balance, relatively few people understand the market, which is why it's such a useful political object.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
January 27 2021 15:06 GMT
#61154
On January 28 2021 00:01 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:55 Erasme wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:30 LegalLord wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?

When we're looking at the 2020-21 bubble in hindsight, this will definitely be one of the stories that people who lived in the time and paid attention will tell. Bubble breakage happens on a long enough timescale that this would be a blip in the grand scheme of things, but it'll be "one of those moments" that signaled the end. To be honest we had two years of those kinds of moments in 2008 and one year in 2021, so it's just going to look painfully obvious in hindsight that all the bad things were coming.

We've been trying to bury a bad economy for 13 years and we might have finally reached the end of that being possible. It's just a matter of when the stock market catches up to the fact.

High speed trading was one of the factor of the 2006 crisis. Reddit is just doing that slower so who fucking cares ? HST is still legal in the US so why would you focus on some fringe actors and not the main ones ?
Also called high frequency trading.

In the grand scheme of things, the Gamestop situation is small fry - unlikely to touch any more than a few billion dollars of money throughout the lifetime of this squeeze. Pennies compared to the trillions of money-pump the government has been doing. But you have to admit, the optics of it look exactly like mania, the kind that make people think it's time to panic.

I was talking about the big trading compagnies who will buy/sell in microseconds. The average reddit user cannot come close to that speed, and so the votality is lessened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
January 27 2021 15:08 GMT
#61155
i really have not been this upset in a while. i dont know why i put (where i am upset or not) on the backs of senate republicans, but fuckin a man. they are really goin to plead process. such a fucking shame. so disgusting.
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
EnDeR_
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Spain2944 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 15:13:31
January 27 2021 15:12 GMT
#61156
On January 27 2021 23:42 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.


Who is arguing that the economy that isnt the stock market has never been better? Theres massive wealth inequality in the US, during the pandemic alone billionaires have made absurd amounts of money as people lost their jobs, had to take on debt to survive, are under threat of eviction, etc.

To say the US economy is doing great would require basically blinding yourself to the grim realities of the economy that impacts actual human beings in favor of looking at the stock market alone. The stock market is not an accurate reflection of how Americans are doing economically, theres a reason when we talk about the non-stock market economy we start using terms like, "real economy," implying the stock market isn't the actual economy.

I'm also of the opinion that the awful state of the US economy for the working class is a large part of why we see people so ready and willing to tell the US Government to fuck off with Trumps and Trump-insurrections, etc. We're nearing that point of economic turmoil that really starts to piss off the population.


On January 27 2021 23:39 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.

People would certainly argue that, but they'd be wrong. Both Obama and Trump, in pursuit of "doing things right this time to avoid Great Depression 2.0", blew a gigantic asset bubble backed by an unprecedented mix of bad debt and endless money printing. The "real economy" has been anemic for a long time now (hence a decade of QE), although admittedly if you own a good portion of stocks and/or real estate you wouldn't have been complaining.


I don't disagree with either of you, the situation is horrific, particularly coming from a European background such as myself.

The thing is, for a very large part of the US population, 'good economy'='good performance in the stock market'.

Edit: Kwark beat me to it :/
estás más desubicao q un croissant en un plato de nécoras
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
January 27 2021 15:37 GMT
#61157
I think people can feel the real economy, unfortunately we're also pumped full of "STOCK MARKET DO GOOD, ECONOMY MANY GOOD!" from so many sources that it creates this very odd brain-space for people in the US. Brain says "everyone says economy is good so..." and then life experience feels a different way, creates this odd cognitive dissonance. I'm not going to pretend to be a whole lot better, there are plenty of people here actually qualified to hold complex nuanced opinions about the American economy, I'm certainly not among them, but I definitely look around and don't see the sort of economic greatness that you hear when people on the news talk about the stock market and such. I dunno why, I don't really feel confident taking measure of any of the complex mechanisms fucking with the real economy but it very much seems fucked to me.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 16:30:16
January 27 2021 16:25 GMT
#61158
On January 28 2021 00:12 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:42 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.


Who is arguing that the economy that isnt the stock market has never been better? Theres massive wealth inequality in the US, during the pandemic alone billionaires have made absurd amounts of money as people lost their jobs, had to take on debt to survive, are under threat of eviction, etc.

To say the US economy is doing great would require basically blinding yourself to the grim realities of the economy that impacts actual human beings in favor of looking at the stock market alone. The stock market is not an accurate reflection of how Americans are doing economically, theres a reason when we talk about the non-stock market economy we start using terms like, "real economy," implying the stock market isn't the actual economy.

I'm also of the opinion that the awful state of the US economy for the working class is a large part of why we see people so ready and willing to tell the US Government to fuck off with Trumps and Trump-insurrections, etc. We're nearing that point of economic turmoil that really starts to piss off the population.


Show nested quote +
On January 27 2021 23:39 LegalLord wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:33 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:23 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 23:19 EnDeR_ wrote:
On January 27 2021 21:21 Zambrah wrote:
On January 27 2021 20:29 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 27 2021 19:53 Zambrah wrote:
What are the odds this thing where Reddit fucks with the stock market and wrecks a hedge fund has any impact on the farce that is the American belief that the stock market is the economy?
Can America afford to admit its a farce? Or are its roots so deep that it would bring the economy crashing down and make the great depression look like a fun picnic?

Would it even do anything positive?
most Politicians don't want to help the lower and middle or they could do so any time they wanted. Exposing the lie of the stock market won't change that, they would simply find something else to cover for their inaction.


Let me fix that for you.

I mostly hope it has an effect on the populace's perception, but I don't think this will see enough MSM play to really spread that far.

I'm just kind of tired of the state of things economically. Situations like this make me wonder what it takes to see America actually take a shift towards giving a proper shit about its underclass.


Unless we get a 'Great Depression v2.0', I doubt we will see any significant short term shifts. We might be a bit luckier in the longer-term, as the millennial generation gets more positions of power.


The situation we have right now isn't really that far off of the Great Depression, I mean wealth inequality levels are akin to French Revolution levels. That alongside a deadly pandemic raging, this is easily a Great Depression-level situation, I just think the shape of US Gov't is a lot different than its been in the past (pre-Reagan at least.)


A lot of people would argue that the economy has never been better, which is a reason, in my opinion anyway, why a lot of people that are not in the 'basket of deplorables' are still supportive of Trump. Effecting that kind of change when a sizable portion of the population thinks things are fine and dandy is not feasible.

People would certainly argue that, but they'd be wrong. Both Obama and Trump, in pursuit of "doing things right this time to avoid Great Depression 2.0", blew a gigantic asset bubble backed by an unprecedented mix of bad debt and endless money printing. The "real economy" has been anemic for a long time now (hence a decade of QE), although admittedly if you own a good portion of stocks and/or real estate you wouldn't have been complaining.


I don't disagree with either of you, the situation is horrific, particularly coming from a European background such as myself.

The thing is, for a very large part of the US population, 'good economy'='good performance in the stock market'.

Edit: Kwark beat me to it :/


I think it's a good occasion to repost who actually owns stocks.

A whopping 84 percent of all stocks owned by Americans belong to the wealthiest 10 percent of households. @NYT

And that includes everyone’s stakes in pension plans, 401(k)’s and individual retirement accounts, as well as trust funds, mutual funds and college savings programs like 529 plans.

“For the vast majority of Americans, fluctuations in the stock market have relatively little effect on their wealth, or well-being, for that matter,” said Edward N. Wolff, an economist at New York University who recently published new research on the topic.


// it's a bit outdated though the picture is clear enough. and keep in mind, covid was nowhere to be seen and the economy was "ok" back then in 2018. I'd wager the trend has even worsened. think about musk's net worth in 2018 to now. most of it is in stock.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 27 2021 16:51 GMT
#61159
DC statehood bill has been reintroduced (last time was in 2013). Gonna be interesting. I see some comments about adding in an exception to the filibuster rules (a la supreme court justices exception that McConnell introduced). The smart compromise would be PR + DC combined (the more I read about PR politics, the more convinced I am it would be a republican state), but republicans are probably going to try stall it indefinitely and either force a rules change or watch it die.

Proposed name for the state would be Washington, Douglass Commonwealth (after Frederick Douglass).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/536052-senate-democrats-reintroduce-dc-statehood-bill
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-27 17:00:42
January 27 2021 16:59 GMT
#61160
Zambrah, many people think the economy is doing well because their everyday situation is better than it use to be. It isn't all about the stock market.

Republicans have been polling pretty favorably on the economy for a long time, and many of them think that the only problem is lockdowns and other COVID-19 measures.

Our current situation is also nothing like the Great Depression. That is horrifically hyperbolic.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
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