US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2927

On January 06 2021 01:25 Nevuk wrote:
So, Hawley's family residence got visited by an antifa group last night. (They live in a DC suburb, which the group points out to be a little strange, but he's not at all alone in that being the case).

Now, I'm not totally sure how I feel about this. Hawley is definitely misrepresenting the situation. He claims there was vandalism and threats, but he wasn't actually there. The group released a stream of what happened and there's definitely no vandalism and no overt threats. (They sang some songs and left a copy of the constitution).

(This is part of why I take Carlson's and others claims with a massive grain of salt : if there's no video evidence, I will ALWAYS take the antifa group's word, as whenever there HAS been video evidence, it's shown they're being more honest than the other group involved. Also depends on the person : with Carlson, I believe an antifa group was present and did something that could have been interpreted as negative. If it were Hannity, I wouldn't believe anything without external proof).

It's still probably a bit far since Hawley wasn't in residence : if he had been there, I think it would have at least made sense, though maybe been a bit past what I would consider to be fair game (and honestly, they may not have known he wasn't there). I can get why his family would feel threatened, even if that wasn't the intention.

But, honestly, it's small potatoes to what has happened to health officials across the country : Ohio's most effective person resigned after her family received repeated death threats and the response then fell from one of the best to below average. She's hardly alone : it's been especially prominent as a reaction to female health advisors. Gretchen Whitmer has had actual assassination plots against her and their congress threatened with loaded weapons.

So now the antifa group is calling Hawley a snowflake and taking pride in being called antifascists. I don't entirely think they're wrong : if you don't want to be called a fascist, maybe consider, don't act like a fascist? (as this whole thing is in response to Hawley leading an effort to overturn the electoral vote)





WAPO writeup:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/05/hawley-protest-antifa-scumbags-virginia/?itid=hp_MM - LIVE ON HP

On January 06 2021 03:23 Danglars wrote:

I question your approach of siding with Antifa, unless video is shown of an event happening at night, suddenly and unexpectantly, when (your sources) his wife is home and he is not. It’s perfectly tailored to give undue credency to one other side (imagine a right winger here saying they’ll believe a proud boys description of the event, and video taken by them, unless and until specific video evidence is taken by the target of the protest, and of course worse things are happening in a state thousands of miles away anyways).

Carlson involved video, and uncontested testimony of the group actually damaging his front door in an attempt to gain entry into the house containing his wife (who was cowering in fear in a pantry).

You all have fun fighting fascism by showing up at the homes of senators and opinion journalists in DC at night with bullhorns.

Like, seriously, the most empathy you can summon up is “I can see why his family would feel threatened.” Will it take a mon with bullhorns at night ringing your doorbell (video from antifa) for you to change your mind about intentions in protest, or will you come out into the mob to film vandalism (as several people allege he would vandalize himself as a false flag—so you’re demanding this action) so people by-default siding with Antifa will persuade themselves to abandon their initial assumptions?

On January 06 2021 01:49 Slydie wrote:
If you want to blame specific groups, you can also very easily turn on ethnic and religious minorities, with official statistics in hand. I would not go there, even to take a potshot at "nazis."

Officers were called to Hawley’s home in Vienna, a Washington suburb, around 7:45 p.m. after someone reported that there were “people protesting in front of the house.” Officers who responded to the scene found that the “people were peaceful,” said Master Police Officer Juan Vazquez, a spokesman for the Town of Vienna Police Department.

The demonstrators said they went to Hawley’s home because he said he would object when Congress convenes Wednesday to affirm Joe Biden’s election victory.

Vazquez said the protesters had been violating several laws, including a Virginia code about picketing in front of a house, a town ordinance about making noise in front of a home and a littering code. But he said the officers explained the violations and “everyone just left.”

“There were no issues, no arrests,” he said. “We didn’t think it was that big of a deal.”

Hawley accused the group of threatening his family.

“Tonight while I was in Missouri, Antifa scumbags came to our place in DC and threatened my wife and newborn daughter, who can’t travel,” Hawley wrote on Twitter. “They screamed threats, vandalized, and tried to pound open our door. Let me be clear: My family & I will not be intimidated by leftwing violence.”

On January 06 2021 04:09 Broetchenholer wrote:


Blame should land where blame is due. If left voting people would be responsible for spreading a deadly disease, this would have to be criticized in the same way as right leaning folks. Or christians, or people of french descent. You shouldn't be afraid to scrutinize structural and willful behaviour it it is harmful just because of the affiliation of the people behind it. And no one is advocating scrutinizing all (neo)nazis for spreading corona, that would be wrong. But knowing that a lot of them helped spread the virus through ignorance or spitefulness would help the population understand them better.

On January 06 2021 06:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I am unaware of any indication that people of French descent (a curious phrase; wouldn't they just be ethnically French or Walloon in the case of Belgium?) were ignoring regulations for reducing the spread of coronavirus.

On January 06 2021 03:43 Nevuk wrote:

I did say that I felt it was over the line, even if Hawley had been there.

Without Hawley there my opinion is that it's pointlessly petty.

The only actual ill-effect on Hawley was of Hawley own-goaling himself, by lying about vandalism, as there's video showing 0 vandalism already up.

I have very little sympathy for Hawley himself : he's exposed himself as either a boot-licking fascist or craven opportunist willing to pretend to be one. Once you start ignoring public opinion entirely, this is what happens. Feel free to try to destroy society, but don't be surprised when society pushes back.

I would prefer his family be left out, but these are much more polite tactics than are already being used by conservatives, so my empathy is pretty minor for them: the aim wasn't to threaten them, nor were they directly threatened, which cannot be said of the supporters of his goal (see all the death threats election officials have gotten in GA). Accidental/negligent vs Intentional, it does matter.

edit: I dunno, if it helps, my family has a history of having over/underdeveloped empathy at odd situations. So I frequently sound absurdly callous when I'm not trying to.

On January 06 2021 06:41 Danglars wrote:

You said you weren't totally sure how I feel about this, that Antifa did something that could have been interpreted as negative, and it was probably a bit far. Are you now making it less weasely and declaring that it was over the line?