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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Simberto
Germany11755 Posts
How long does it take for them to be arrested? I am pretty sure it would take a lot less time then it takes to even get people onto the streets to riot. Everyone has seen this script before. First they are not arrested, and then at some point the charges get dropped, and they walk free. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9776 Posts
On May 29 2020 17:10 Simberto wrote: And just for comparison, imagine any non-cop being in a video murdering another person, and the police knows exactly where they are. How long does it take for them to be arrested? I am pretty sure it would take a lot less time then it takes to even get people onto the streets to riot. Everyone has seen this script before. First they are not arrested, and then at some point the charges get dropped, and they walk free. I think an even better comparison is to imagine what would have happened to anyone that tried to physically stop the cop from murdering that guy. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5055 Posts
But I've wondered why a crowd of people that see a guy get choked don't take the steps to alleviate the pressure from his throat? There's only a single guy holding the crowd back? Am I that misinformed on how law enforcement/trigger happiness works? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23669 Posts
On May 29 2020 19:25 Uldridge wrote: How is that a comparitive scenario? That's an alternative scenario. But I've wondered why a crowd of people that see a guy get choked don't take the steps to alleviate the pressure from his throat? There's only a single guy holding the crowd back? Am I that misinformed on how law enforcement/trigger happiness works? Have to get through the 3 other cops helping kill him before you can get the one on his neck and chances are they start shooting and you might die too, or get charged by the cops for bleeding on their uniform. Also they're arresting news crews too now The cops that killed George Floyd still have not though, so there's that. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On May 29 2020 19:25 Uldridge wrote: How is that a comparitive scenario? That's an alternative scenario. But I've wondered why a crowd of people that see a guy get choked don't take the steps to alleviate the pressure from his throat? There's only a single guy holding the crowd back? Am I that misinformed on how law enforcement/trigger happiness works? basically the bolded part | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On May 29 2020 19:25 Uldridge wrote: How is that a comparitive scenario? That's an alternative scenario. But I've wondered why a crowd of people that see a guy get choked don't take the steps to alleviate the pressure from his throat? There's only a single guy holding the crowd back? Am I that misinformed on how law enforcement/trigger happiness works? Do you want to get shot ? Because that's how you get shot. He's choking a passive man to the death, what would he do to someone trying to use force to stop him ? | ||
micronesia
United States24755 Posts
On May 29 2020 14:05 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Well thankfully Trump is defusing the situation now by saying he's ready to get the military and shoot everyone... The latter tweet which says, "...when the looting starts, the shooting starts" was flagged as in violation of the anti-violence rules, but it's still available if you click past the warning message. This should only inflame the disagreement between Trump and Twitter regarding their ability to provide commentary on the content of his Tweets. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9776 Posts
That whole thing being on high quality video for a major news network. Some high ranking police chief is facepalming very hard right now. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45320 Posts
On May 29 2020 19:25 Uldridge wrote: How is that a comparitive scenario? That's an alternative scenario. But I've wondered why a crowd of people that see a guy get choked don't take the steps to alleviate the pressure from his throat? There's only a single guy holding the crowd back? Am I that misinformed on how law enforcement/trigger happiness works? Sadly, we know how it would play out, if bystanders physically interfered: the 4 cops there would just escalate into further violence with more casualties, injuring/shooting/killing additional good samaritans who were only trying to save the life of George Floyd. The cops absolutely would not have backed off. And then even more people would have been arrested for obstruction of justice, and the whole situation would have been spun into those poor cops not being allowed to subdue a potential threat by having to deal with an angry mob. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35170 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23669 Posts
On May 29 2020 20:22 Gahlo wrote: And it didn't even take 3 days to arrest the camera crew. In fairness, the white reporter is fine and on the air basically in the same spot (at the police station actually) the reporter in almost the same spot the CNN reporter was arrested is from MSNBC. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23669 Posts
This stuff is just bonkers. Doesn't look good for tonight. | ||
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farvacola
United States18855 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45320 Posts
On May 29 2020 20:58 farvacola wrote: The widespread protests have me hopeful, but getting to where we need to go will not be pretty. The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that it's not a hard problem to fix; the issue with fixing the problem is that the justice system doesn't want to convict police officers, in general. The public has tried protesting, to no avail. Take every police officer who commits manslaughter *and actually convict them of manslaughter*. Send them to jail, because they are criminals who broke the law. Don't just put them on temporary leave and/or fire them (potentially with benefits). Throw the damn book at them if it's as blatantly black-and-white (no pun intended) as George Floyd's case. We need our legal system to be fair, and we can start by making an example out of the 4 police officers here. But the people in charge who need to fix the problem, historically, have not cared about administering any real consequences. Over the years, I'm sure that the first few times I had ever heard that the public was rioting and looting as a response to a civil injustice, I was indignant and hypercritical of such a violent and destructive reaction. But at this point, what other options are there? What alternatives are left to recommend? What hasn't been tried yet? The entire spectrum has already been exhausted, countless times over. We KNOW peaceful marches don't work. We KNOW silent protests don't work. We KNOW civil disobedience doesn't work. We KNOW that simply sitting or kneeling doesn't work. We KNOW that being armed doesn't work. We KNOW that being unarmed doesn't work. We KNOW that being submissive doesn't work. We KNOW that following the law doesn't work. How is it even remotely surprising that escalation eventually occurs, out of desperation? Who knows if that'll work either, when so many people dismiss these tragedies as non-issues, regardless of the response, but at this point, I can't think of any other option that hasn't already been proven ineffective anyway. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9032 Posts
I feel the need to reiterate this for some reason; the protesters have allies all around the world. The looting and destruction of a mom and pop store is unnecessary. Like Rick James said, "Fuck yo Target!" | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23669 Posts
On May 29 2020 21:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that it's not a hard problem to fix; the issue with fixing the problem is that the justice system doesn't want to convict police officers, in general. The public has tried protesting, to no avail. Take every police officer who commits manslaughter *and actually convict them of manslaughter*. Send them to jail, because they are criminals who broke the law. Don't just put them on temporary leave and/or fire them (potentially with benefits). Throw the damn book at them if it's as blatantly black-and-white (no pun intended) as George Floyd's case. We need our legal system to be fair, and we can start by making an example out of the 4 police officers here. But the people in charge who need to fix the problem, historically, have not cared about administering any real consequences. Over the years, I'm sure that the first few times I had ever heard that the public was rioting and looting as a response to a civil injustice, I was indignant and hypercritical of such a violent and destructive reaction. But at this point, what other options are there? What alternatives are left to recommend? What hasn't been tried yet? The entire spectrum has already been exhausted, countless times over. We KNOW peaceful marches don't work. We KNOW silent protests don't work. We KNOW civil disobedience doesn't work. We KNOW that simply sitting or kneeling doesn't work. We KNOW that being armed doesn't work. We KNOW that being unarmed doesn't work. We KNOW that being submissive doesn't work. We KNOW that following the law doesn't work. How is it even remotely surprising that escalation eventually occurs, out of desperation? Who knows if that'll work either, when so many people dismiss these tragedies as non-issues, regardless of the response, but at this point, I can't think of any other option that hasn't already been proven ineffective anyway. Is it fair to ask whether it has become clear that Democrats reconciling this is what I've been saying for years was necessary to the distress of many here? That it isn't just the systemic unaccountable violence of the police (this time highlighted in another Democrat run state/city) this critique applies to? That your point about trying everything else countless times already applies to several of the issues I and others raise about US politics? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45320 Posts
On May 29 2020 21:20 GreenHorizons wrote: Is it fair to ask whether it has become clear that Democrats reconciling this is what I've been saying for years was necessary to the distress of many here? That it isn't just the systemic unaccountable violence of the police (this time highlighted in another Democrat run state/city) this critique applies to? That your point about trying everything else countless times already applies to several of the issues I and others raise about US politics? I think we've certainly seen more and more Democrats (and even the general American public) become exasperated and disillusioned at the endless repetition of these injustices, when punishments never happen. Certainly, my personal take on these issues have gone from "let's try calm and peaceful protesting for the millionth time" to "well it's been a billion times now, so fuck it, I'm up for anything that could actually work, at this point", when the calm and peaceful protests simply aren't working. As far as generalizing this to other issues goes, it would likely depend on which issues you're referring to, but I can certainly get behind the idea of trying to improve X in new, different ways, if the current system is failing. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23669 Posts
On May 29 2020 21:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think we've certainly seen more and more Democrats (and even the general American public) become exasperated and disillusioned at the endless repetition of these injustices, when punishments never happen. Certainly, my personal take on these issues have gone from "let's try calm and peaceful protesting for the millionth time" to "well it's been a billion times now, so fuck it, I'm up for anything that could actually work, at this point", when the calm and peaceful protests simply aren't working. As far as generalizing this to other issues goes, it would likely depend on which issues you're referring to, but I can certainly get behind the idea of trying to improve X in new, different ways, if the current system is failing. I'm not sure if that is a yes or a no to the first question? | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9032 Posts
On May 29 2020 21:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that it's not a hard problem to fix; the issue with fixing the problem is that the justice system doesn't want to convict police officers, in general. The public has tried protesting, to no avail. Take every police officer who commits manslaughter *and actually convict them of manslaughter*. Send them to jail, because they are criminals who broke the law. Don't just put them on temporary leave and/or fire them (potentially with benefits). Throw the damn book at them if it's as blatantly black-and-white (no pun intended) as George Floyd's case. We need our legal system to be fair, and we can start by making an example out of the 4 police officers here. But the people in charge who need to fix the problem, historically, have not cared about administering any real consequences. Over the years, I'm sure that the first few times I had ever heard that the public was rioting and looting as a response to a civil injustice, I was indignant and hypercritical of such a violent and destructive reaction. But at this point, what other options are there? What alternatives are left to recommend? What hasn't been tried yet? The entire spectrum has already been exhausted, countless times over. We KNOW peaceful marches don't work. We KNOW silent protests don't work. We KNOW civil disobedience doesn't work. We KNOW that simply sitting or kneeling doesn't work. We KNOW that being armed doesn't work. We KNOW that being unarmed doesn't work. We KNOW that being submissive doesn't work. We KNOW that following the law doesn't work. How is it even remotely surprising that escalation eventually occurs, out of desperation? Who knows if that'll work either, when so many people dismiss these tragedies as non-issues, regardless of the response, but at this point, I can't think of any other option that hasn't already been proven ineffective anyway. The first four are issues of time. The rest are issues of indifference of the bystanders and people with the "authority/power" to make the changes. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On May 29 2020 21:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that it's not a hard problem to fix; the issue with fixing the problem is that the justice system doesn't want to convict police officers, in general. The public has tried protesting, to no avail. Take every police officer who commits manslaughter *and actually convict them of manslaughter*. Send them to jail, because they are criminals who broke the law. Don't just put them on temporary leave and/or fire them (potentially with benefits). Throw the damn book at them if it's as blatantly black-and-white (no pun intended) as George Floyd's case. We need our legal system to be fair, and we can start by making an example out of the 4 police officers here. But the people in charge who need to fix the problem, historically, have not cared about administering any real consequences. Over the years, I'm sure that the first few times I had ever heard that the public was rioting and looting as a response to a civil injustice, I was indignant and hypercritical of such a violent and destructive reaction. But at this point, what other options are there? What alternatives are left to recommend? What hasn't been tried yet? The entire spectrum has already been exhausted, countless times over. We KNOW peaceful marches don't work. We KNOW silent protests don't work. We KNOW civil disobedience doesn't work. We KNOW that simply sitting or kneeling doesn't work. We KNOW that being armed doesn't work. We KNOW that being unarmed doesn't work. We KNOW that being submissive doesn't work. We KNOW that following the law doesn't work. How is it even remotely surprising that escalation eventually occurs, out of desperation? Who knows if that'll work either, when so many people dismiss these tragedies as non-issues, regardless of the response, but at this point, I can't think of any other option that hasn't already been proven ineffective anyway. Riots aren't a 2020 invention. Are you sure that whatever framework you're using to say those things don't work doesn't also conclude that rioting doesn't work either? | ||
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