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On July 09 2019 10:16 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 05:24 xDaunt wrote:On July 09 2019 05:08 Artisreal wrote:On July 09 2019 04:26 xDaunt wrote:On July 09 2019 04:19 Simberto wrote:
So, i just read up on the Epstein background because i was so confused. Due to the certainty with which everyone spoke of the stuff Epstein had done, i was under the impression that he was already in prison, so i was really confused when he suddently got arrested. So i read stuff.
Everything you can read about Epstein is disgusting and shows how corrupt the US justice system is. We have a person who is a serial abuser of underage girls, everyone knows it, and he just gets away with it because he is rich and knows people. Just reading about it makes me incredibly angry. Why does that piece of shit get a plea deal that means he is immune to prosecution, and for the single case that he ends up spending time in prison, he goes to a luxury prison where he can hire his own guards. What the fuck is that shit?
How can you explain any of that to the people and there is not a revolt? There is not even any doubt that he did the things he is accused of, but he just gets away because he is rich and has powerful friends. There is simply no shame on behalf of the people who let him get away with it. It is disgusting, and people should be far more angry about it then they seem to be. Maybe i am just late to the party here because i just found out about it, and all the anger turned to resignation for other people already. But still...the whole thing is just so incredibly and obviously corrupt. Apparently one of the reasons why Epstein skated in 2008 was a deal that he cut with the FBI to provide information on something. As just an FYI, Mueller was the director back then. in what context is this fyi you added important? I just think that it's a potentially interesting fact. It could be neither here nor there. If you follow all of the names across the various scandals on the left side of the aisle (or perhaps it's more fair to say the "swamp side of the aisle"), what you notice is that the same names keep popping up. I'm generally not one for conspiracy theories, but I do pay attention. Speaking of which, take a look at this paragraph from the DOJ's detention memo to the judge in the Epstein case: Finally, despite having been previously convicted of a sex offense involving an underage victim, the defendant has continued to maintain a vast trove of lewd photographs of young-looking women or girls in his Manhattan mansion. In a search of the New York Residence on the night of his arrest, on July 6-7, 2019, pursuant to judicially-authorized warrants, law enforcement officers discovered not only specific evidence consistent with victim recollections of the inside of the mansion, further strengthening the evidence of the conduct charged in the Indictment, but also at least hundreds—and perhaps thousands—of sexually suggestive photographs of fully- or partially-nude females. While these items were only seized this weekend and are still being reviewed, some of the nude or partially-nude photographs appear to be of underage girls, including at least one girl who, according to her counsel, was underage at the time the relevant photographs were taken. Additionally, some of the photographs referenced herein were discovered in a locked safe, in which law enforcement officers also found compact discs with hand-written labels including the following: “Young [Name] + [Name],” “Misc nudes 1,” and “Girl pics nude.” The defendant, a registered sex offender, is not reformed, he is not chastened, he is not repentant; rather, he is a continuing danger to the community and an individual who faces devastating evidence supporting deeply serious charges. Source, p. 9. "Young [Name] + [Name]." Perhaps this means that Epstein had a stash of photographs of various [important] persons doing illegal things with children? Perhaps the Fed seized a massive load of blackmail materials from Epstein? If you have any familiarity with Epstein's social circle and who is in it (and especially who visited his island), the importance of this sentence and the magnitude of the shitstorm that it portends become quite apparent. This is juicy stuff. It has long been reported that Epstein kept blackmail tapes on the public figures who had sex with his girls. And this case is being handled in the SDNY's public corruption unit, with "assistance" from the child sex crimes unit. Everyone on those tapes needs to go down in flames.
I see this ending one of two ways for Epstein, either he gets off yet again, or he gets killed/dies mysteriously. But he's got too much on too many people to rot in prison.
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On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are.
Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them.
We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it.
But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced.
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On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced.
The people you're arguing with aren't for open borders, I am. They are for perpetuating the exploitative immigration system we've had (like under Bush/Obama) more humanely.
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Interesting that Clinton has gone out on a limb with this statement. There are flight logs that have been reported in the media showing that clintom was on dozens of flights (i.e. it's an actual scan of the flight log that says "bill clinton"). Here he claims he only took 4 flights. So his defense depends on the claim that the flight logs are falsified or mistake.
From what I can tell, bill Clinton (especially with Juanita Broaddrick) is a monstrous sex criminal and needs to be in a jail cell.
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On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced.
You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you?
I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise.
Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise.
GH, don't speak for me. Thank you.
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I heard Clinton was on Epstein plane 26 times in the flight logs.Who knows.Hopefully the truth comes out and if he did wrong he can face justice.
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On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you.
The right to self-determinism as agreed to by the UN gives me the right to decide what happens to the country I am a citizen of. You are incentivizing them to come here and skirt the law. You are telling them that if they come and plead asylum they can not show up to their hearings and then if they're able to hide from the law for a few years you'll grant them citizenship through amnesty. You are telling them to pay the human traffickers to take the risks of death and rape that they'll experience in order to come here because according to you no one should be able to tell them that they have to go away. You are for open borders because you don't think anyone should be allowed to decide who comes and who doesn't come.
I am telling you what actions your party has done to advertise the rape and murder that has come from the economic migrants your party has encouraged to come under the guise of "asylum". You don't even use the code words to get around the fact that you know they're breaking our laws and are not here for asylum but for the economic benefits.
If you want America to conquer the world to make it a better place you can just come out and tell us that. Until then you are for human trafficing if you continue your half thougth out ideals.
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On July 09 2019 11:13 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. The right to self-determinism as agreed to by the UN gives me the right to decide what happens to the country I am a citizen of. You are incentivizing them to come here and skirt the law. You are telling them that if they come and plead asylum they can not show up to their hearings and then if they're able to hide from the law for a few years you'll grant them citizenship through amnesty. You are telling them to pay the human traffickers to take the risks of death and rape that they'll experience in order to come here because according to you no one should be able to tell them that they have to go away. You are for open borders because you don't think anyone should be allowed to decide who comes and who doesn't come. I am telling you what actions your party has done to advertise the rape and murder that has come from the economic migrants your party has encouraged to come under the guise of "asylum". You don't even use the code words to get around the fact that you know they're breaking our laws and are not here for asylum but for the economic benefits. If you want America to conquer the world to make it a better place you can just come out and tell us that. Until then you are for human trafficing if you continue your half thougth out ideals.
So much ignorance, I can't believe it. No where, not even once, did I say I am for any thing remotely close to what you just claimed. You're constantly trying to make me into this bogeyman you've conjured but everything you've just claimed, is patently false. You have a narrative of what the opposite party wants, and are applying that without critical thinking, to anything I've said. You also seem to have this notion that because I don't want human beings treated like livestock and forced into concentration camps because "they came illegally," that I am for this "open border" myth. Try again. And this time, please do understand what you are espousing before saying anything further.
Good night sir.
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On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you.
Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here?
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On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here?
In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here.
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On July 09 2019 12:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here? In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here.
Ok so you are actually for open borders?
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On July 09 2019 12:11 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 12:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here? In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here. Ok so you are actually for open borders?
I'm not for "open borders" I'm just not against allowing people the right to enter the US and be treated with dignity and respect. You say "open borders" I hear "no law, no process, just come party in the USA!!" That's not what I'm saying in the least. Say what you mean and be done with this.
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On July 09 2019 12:13 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 12:11 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 12:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect.
Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here? In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here. Ok so you are actually for open borders? I'm not for "open borders" I'm just not against allowing people the right to enter the US and be treated with dignity and respect. You say "open borders" I hear "no law, no process, just come party in the USA!!" That's not what I'm saying in the least. Say what you mean and be done with this.
I mean "open" in the sense that there is no quota, literally anyone and everyone can come if they want. The paperwork is really not what is at issue, and never has been, in the term "open borders."
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On July 09 2019 12:15 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 12:13 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:11 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 12:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
[quote]
The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not.
Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here? In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here. Ok so you are actually for open borders? I'm not for "open borders" I'm just not against allowing people the right to enter the US and be treated with dignity and respect. You say "open borders" I hear "no law, no process, just come party in the USA!!" That's not what I'm saying in the least. Say what you mean and be done with this. I mean "open" in the sense that there is no quota, literally anyone and everyone can come if they want. The paperwork is really not what is at issue, and never has been, in the term "open borders."
If you have no criminal history and prove that you are not here to harm the US in any shape or form, then I do not see a problem. Now, if we do it like Japan and require only "professional career" people in (doctors, lawyers, architects, etc), and severely limit low skill workers, I would need a lot more information to sign off on that. I also am not for, what I'm assuming you're getting at, Euro Bloc style of open borders either. There is a process. It needs to be fixed and resourced to serve all who wish to enter.
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On July 09 2019 12:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 12:15 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 12:13 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:11 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 12:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here? In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here. Ok so you are actually for open borders? I'm not for "open borders" I'm just not against allowing people the right to enter the US and be treated with dignity and respect. You say "open borders" I hear "no law, no process, just come party in the USA!!" That's not what I'm saying in the least. Say what you mean and be done with this. I mean "open" in the sense that there is no quota, literally anyone and everyone can come if they want. The paperwork is really not what is at issue, and never has been, in the term "open borders." If you have no criminal history and prove that you are not here to harm the US in any shape or form, then I do not see a problem. Now, if we do it like Japan and require only "professional career" people in (doctors, lawyers, architects, etc), and severely limit low skill workers, I would need a lot more information to sign off on that. I also am not for, what I'm assuming you're getting at, Euro Bloc style of open borders either. There is a process. It needs to be fixed and resourced to serve all who wish to enter.
No I am not getting at that. "Open borders" most generally means "unrestricted immigration."
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On July 09 2019 12:21 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 12:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:15 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 12:13 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:11 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 12:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 12:09 IgnE wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
[quote]
I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand:
If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life.
You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. Does anyone have the right to determine whether they can come here? In a nation founded by a group of people who fled their own country, everyone has the right to come here. Ok so you are actually for open borders? I'm not for "open borders" I'm just not against allowing people the right to enter the US and be treated with dignity and respect. You say "open borders" I hear "no law, no process, just come party in the USA!!" That's not what I'm saying in the least. Say what you mean and be done with this. I mean "open" in the sense that there is no quota, literally anyone and everyone can come if they want. The paperwork is really not what is at issue, and never has been, in the term "open borders." If you have no criminal history and prove that you are not here to harm the US in any shape or form, then I do not see a problem. Now, if we do it like Japan and require only "professional career" people in (doctors, lawyers, architects, etc), and severely limit low skill workers, I would need a lot more information to sign off on that. I also am not for, what I'm assuming you're getting at, Euro Bloc style of open borders either. There is a process. It needs to be fixed and resourced to serve all who wish to enter. No I am not getting at that. "Open borders" most generally means "unrestricted immigration."
You cannot have unrestricted immigration because the places the immigrants end up will severely hurt the city when trying to provide for an influx of people without proper planning.
I am saying, quite simply, that people who do enter, regardless of legality, have the right the be treated humanely. That is the core argument I am speaking of. Ends do not justify the means. Serm is saying that it is okay if they round them up and treat them the way they have been, because they are illegal. That is not right.
I am also saying, that the borders need to be better outfitted to care for the people who are fleeing areas of danger and extreme poverty, and to process them as quickly as possible while allowing them to stay with family members. This is not a US only issue here. We need all countries that immigrants are fleeing to help stymie the problem, but that is a conversation for another day.
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On July 09 2019 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 11:13 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. The right to self-determinism as agreed to by the UN gives me the right to decide what happens to the country I am a citizen of. You are incentivizing them to come here and skirt the law. You are telling them that if they come and plead asylum they can not show up to their hearings and then if they're able to hide from the law for a few years you'll grant them citizenship through amnesty. You are telling them to pay the human traffickers to take the risks of death and rape that they'll experience in order to come here because according to you no one should be able to tell them that they have to go away. You are for open borders because you don't think anyone should be allowed to decide who comes and who doesn't come. I am telling you what actions your party has done to advertise the rape and murder that has come from the economic migrants your party has encouraged to come under the guise of "asylum". You don't even use the code words to get around the fact that you know they're breaking our laws and are not here for asylum but for the economic benefits. If you want America to conquer the world to make it a better place you can just come out and tell us that. Until then you are for human trafficing if you continue your half thougth out ideals. So much ignorance, I can't believe it. No where, not even once, did I say I am for any thing remotely close to what you just claimed. You're constantly trying to make me into this bogeyman you've conjured but everything you've just claimed, is patently false. You have a narrative of what the opposite party wants, and are applying that without critical thinking, to anything I've said. You also seem to have this notion that because I don't want human beings treated like livestock and forced into concentration camps because "they came illegally," that I am for this "open border" myth. Try again. And this time, please do understand what you are espousing before saying anything further. Good night sir.
He did give you ample opportunity to address "How are you not incentivizing people to come and skirt the law through what you've just suggested" and "Are you even aware that the system as you've described it amounts to open borders and endorsement of human trafficking?"
He suggests the foul outcomes as the necessary conclusions of everything you've written. If you have any reason to dispute Sermo's ends, or maybe his diagnosis of side effect, you're certainly keeping that well hidden within your own mind. You can repeat until you turn blue in the face that nothing you're writing will incentivize anything you don't want to happen
I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do
One last restatement: Is Sermokala supposed to divine why you think this doesn't incentivize anything, or are you going to tell him?
So much ignorance, I can't believe it. No where, not even once, did I say I am for any thing remotely close to what you just claimed. You're constantly trying to make me into this bogeyman you've conjured but everything you've just claimed, is patently false. You have a narrative
We also don't need one more insinuation that Sermo pointing out problems in your plan is the same as Sermo alleging the problems are the stated goal of your plan. It just makes the reader think he's supposed to take your word for it that everything will be fine once the "party that created this" is removed.
I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation?
Seriously, you have to qualify this if you don't want the reader to presume migration is a fundamental human right. You can't just go on to focus on inhumane treatment after a blanket statement delegitimizing a nation choosing who can and cannot come in. If Sermo has no right, as a citizen of the country he resides in to say who can and cannot come to this nation, he's goddamn correct to call it open borders and treat it as such.
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On July 09 2019 12:37 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2019 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 11:13 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:26 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 10:10 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 10:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 09 2019 09:47 Sermokala wrote:On July 09 2019 09:42 Jockmcplop wrote:
Thanks serm I'll add that to the massive, infinite list of problems that the left is responsible for that the left isn't really responsible for.
Remember when it was the left's fault that the republicans voted Trump in?
Its what we call "Shapiro logic" You don't blame the venue for having disgusting toilets you blame the promoter for not having enough bathrooms for the event they promoted for. The event the left is promoting for is amnesty. They are advertising for human traffickers to say "quickly give us your money so we can bring you to America and soon you will be a us citizen". Simple cause and effect. Having fault and being the fault of are two different things. The mental gymnastics. Must be a gold medalist in the all around event. I could be wrong, but I think the left is for honoring what the US is founded and has been made prosperous from, and that is accepting people from all over who are looking for a better life and to have an opportunity to you know...live. They want people who come here illegally to be checked and given a chance to earn citizenship. If you want to play this game, then really, you don't belong here. Neither do I. Only people who the US rightfully belongs to is the native americans. Because americans brought weapons and disease and wiped a civilization out of their homes, does not give them the right to decide who is welcome and who is not. Take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm glad you agree that they come here illegally and are inherently criminals waiting for the deal sold to them to come true as economic migrants and not the asylum seekers they profess to be. I'll spell it out for you, since it is hard to understand: If they are guilty of any one thing, that makes them less human and therefore less worthy of aid, regardless of where they come from, it is that they look differently than you. They are not "inherently criminals" as you put it, which invokes a response of fear and hatred. They are refugees, fleeing a nation or area that is killing large swathes of their own people. These are people who are willing to make the journey, for a chance, to get a shot at a better life. You dehumanizing them doesn't make them any worse. It makes you look like an uncaring, unfeeling, bigoted racist jerk. And if you want to call that slander, be my guess. Read your previous posts as proof that you are. Are they refugees or economic migrants? I mean I get that you think self-determinism is a joke but a nation is allowed control over itself. "willing to make the journey" is inherently you advocating for people to be incentivized to make this dangerous journey and inherently makes you responsible for whatever happens to them. We're not talking about if they should be allowed to come at all we're talking about the method that they come by. The left advocates for open borders and bringing everyone and anyone that can possibly be trafficked into the country while the right believes we should have at least some measure of control for it. But sure retreat to slurs and name-calling. Not like anyone can legitimately disagree with leftist viewpoints, no they must be insulted and silenced. You can split hairs on what you call them, if that makes you feel better about what your party has created. I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Who are you to determine that these people don't deserve basic human rights and dignity? Who are you to want to implement "control" over something as imaginary as a border? Who are you? I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do, we need to treat them better than sticking them in concentration camps, denying them access to basic hygienic supplies, and stripping children from parents. What I'm saying is that you think you can decide who is allowed based on what? You were here first? I will politely as possible tell you to get the hell outta here with that noise. Yes, nations are allowed to decide what is best for them, but if it comes down to stocking humans like livestock at the border and letting them in with compassion and fixing the system as best we can, so that there are enough resources to actually make a difference, then I choose the latter all day every day. But please, feel free to play victim and think I've reduced to calling you names that you seem proud to wear. You can disagree all you want, but what your actions as a party, states otherwise. GH, don't speak for me. Thank you. The right to self-determinism as agreed to by the UN gives me the right to decide what happens to the country I am a citizen of. You are incentivizing them to come here and skirt the law. You are telling them that if they come and plead asylum they can not show up to their hearings and then if they're able to hide from the law for a few years you'll grant them citizenship through amnesty. You are telling them to pay the human traffickers to take the risks of death and rape that they'll experience in order to come here because according to you no one should be able to tell them that they have to go away. You are for open borders because you don't think anyone should be allowed to decide who comes and who doesn't come. I am telling you what actions your party has done to advertise the rape and murder that has come from the economic migrants your party has encouraged to come under the guise of "asylum". You don't even use the code words to get around the fact that you know they're breaking our laws and are not here for asylum but for the economic benefits. If you want America to conquer the world to make it a better place you can just come out and tell us that. Until then you are for human trafficing if you continue your half thougth out ideals. So much ignorance, I can't believe it. No where, not even once, did I say I am for any thing remotely close to what you just claimed. You're constantly trying to make me into this bogeyman you've conjured but everything you've just claimed, is patently false. You have a narrative of what the opposite party wants, and are applying that without critical thinking, to anything I've said. You also seem to have this notion that because I don't want human beings treated like livestock and forced into concentration camps because "they came illegally," that I am for this "open border" myth. Try again. And this time, please do understand what you are espousing before saying anything further. Good night sir. He did give you ample opportunity to address "How are you not incentivizing people to come and skirt the law through what you've just suggested" and "Are you even aware that the system as you've described it amounts to open borders and endorsement of human trafficking?" He suggests the foul outcomes as the necessary conclusions of everything you've written. If you have any reason to dispute Sermo's ends, or maybe his diagnosis of side effect, you're certainly keeping that well hidden within your own mind. You can repeat until you turn blue in the face that nothing you're writing will incentivize anything you don't want to happen Show nested quote +I'm not incentivizing anything nor anyone to skirt the law and come illegally. I'm saying that if they do One last restatement: Is Sermokala supposed to divine why you think this doesn't incentivize anything, or are you going to tell him? Show nested quote +So much ignorance, I can't believe it. No where, not even once, did I say I am for any thing remotely close to what you just claimed. You're constantly trying to make me into this bogeyman you've conjured but everything you've just claimed, is patently false. You have a narrative We also don't need one more insinuation that Sermo pointing out problems in your plan is the same as Sermo alleging the problems are the stated goal of your plan. It just makes the reader think he's supposed to take your word for it that everything will be fine once the "party that created this" is removed. Show nested quote +I want to know what gives you the right to say who can and cannot come to this nation? Seriously, you have to qualify this if you don't want the reader to presume migration is a fundamental human right. You can't just go on to focus on inhumane treatment after a blanket statement delegitimizing a nation choosing who can and cannot come in. If Sermo has no right, as a citizen of the country he resides in to say who can and cannot come to this nation, he's goddamn correct to call it open borders and treat it as such.
It's like IgnE and I did not just have a conversation attempting to answer all of this. I have work in the morning. If this hasn't progressed too far, I'll take a stab at answering all of your...points?
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Open borders is not a very good idea for a bunch of reasons, it's not a sustainable system. Abolish borders is the correct view if you want a position in that vein (I do).
The rhetorics that pretend it's either concentration camps or open borders, that's it, those are the two genders, are some of the ugliest.
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Conspiracy communities have been talking about nasty stuff surrounding Epstein for decades, most of it supported by what I would consider to be strong evidence. As with many other topics, trying to create open discussion about it was typically shit on. I hope there is some vindication and the actual scale of what goes on out of the public eye starts to be revealed a bit more. But I am pessimistic.
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EPT
