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On June 23 2019 02:28 Sermokala wrote:
Really? He openly admits he doesn't agree with anything Iran does and admits its a terrorist state. His whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors to gain sympathy for a theocratic regime that might get better in 20-30 years. Then his post just devolves into "murica bad france good" as if France would do anything at all about Iran.
Its the same tired shit Euros have said for decades now, about how they would do things better but refuse to do even the slightest of things. Yugoslavia was on their doorstep and did nothing.
Yes, French foreign policy and interventions have nothing to do with morality or liberty, just like US foreign policy. The imperative to act is purely economic. Let's not pretend otherwise, both see allies in other theocratic regimes that are no better in any department except not standing in the way of their interests.
I do not believe you are naive enough to think this has anything to do with Iran being a theocratic regime or with anti-terrorism. To this day the US, UK and other western nations sponsor terrorist organizations in Iran and Syria for the sole reason that those organizations oppose the government.
The US had no problem replacing a secular Iranian government with a theocratic regime willing to do its bidding in the 50s. Only when it was replaced through a revolution by a different theocratic regime unsympathetic to the interests of the US in the late 70s did Iran become a place "we have to do something about" once again. And indeed immediately after that the US supported another totalitarian state, Saddam's Iraq, in a war against Iran. 20 years later when Saddam dared to defy the petrodollar it was his turn to become the guy that has to go for 'moral reasons'.
And that was by no means an outlier or an exception to the rule, from Suharto to Pinochet to today we see a consistent track record of replacing or attempting to replace regimes with pro-American or pro-western regimes with no regard whatsoever of any other characteristics of those regimes. If that change happens to be from a totalitarian gov to a democratic gov "we freed them", if it's the other way around "we didn't know they were like that". It's all made up.
Not seeing it for what it is requires an intentional kind of blindness
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Yes. For morality and liberty, get NGOs, not states (and even then...)
On another topic, a pretty interesting read on the powers held by Border Patrol. When you are at the airport, it seems the constitution does not apply : you are not under arrest, but you can't leave, you can't get a lawyer, you will have to surrender all passwords and let your privacy be violated even without any valid predicate or process. Even if you are a national and coming in on your own soil, even if as a journalist you are supposed to have your sources protected etc etc...
It's not even a gray area, it's a black hole.
https://theintercept.com/2019/06/22/cbp-border-searches-journalists/
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On June 23 2019 05:02 Nouar wrote:Yes. For morality and liberty, get NGOs, not states (and even then...) On another topic, a pretty interesting read on the powers held by Border Patrol. When you are at the airport, it seems the constitution does not apply : you are not under arrest, but you can't leave, you can't get a lawyer, you will have to surrender all passwords and let your privacy be violated even without any valid predicate or process. Even if you are a national and coming in on your own soil, even if as a journalist you are supposed to have your sources protected etc etc... It's not even a gray area, it's a black hole. https://theintercept.com/2019/06/22/cbp-border-searches-journalists/
All part of the slow motion fascist turn that the US has been performing for the last 18 years now.
Stuff like that shouldn't be legal, and it in fact most reminds me of stories about the controls at the border of the GDR during the cold war. Add to that the amount of data the NSA has on everyone, which the Stasi could only dream off. And thus we have the land of the free.
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On June 23 2019 05:56 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2019 05:02 Nouar wrote:Yes. For morality and liberty, get NGOs, not states (and even then...) On another topic, a pretty interesting read on the powers held by Border Patrol. When you are at the airport, it seems the constitution does not apply : you are not under arrest, but you can't leave, you can't get a lawyer, you will have to surrender all passwords and let your privacy be violated even without any valid predicate or process. Even if you are a national and coming in on your own soil, even if as a journalist you are supposed to have your sources protected etc etc... It's not even a gray area, it's a black hole. https://theintercept.com/2019/06/22/cbp-border-searches-journalists/ All part of the slow motion fascist turn that the US has been performing for the last 18 years now. Stuff like that shouldn't be legal, and it in fact most reminds me of stories about the controls at the border of the GDR during the cold war. Add to that the amount of data the NSA has on everyone, which the Stasi could only dream off. And thus we have the land of the free.
Does it make sense why I thought it was peculiar people put so much trust in an architect of his own illegal domestic spying program at the FBI (a notorious criminal organization that's on file assassinating US citizens for speaking out) to hold Trump accountable for criminal/fascist behavior?
Why I thought it strange people let themselves be consumed by the kabuki around it?
ICE is going to start the brownshirt raids on the homes of immigrants (or suspected ones) people talked about when Trump first proposed his immigration plans on the campaign trail btw.
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On June 23 2019 02:28 Sermokala wrote:
Really? He openly admits he doesn't agree with anything Iran does and admits its a terrorist state. His whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors to gain sympathy for a theocratic regime that might get better in 20-30 years. Then his post just devolves into "murica bad france good" as if France would do anything at all about Iran.
Its the same tired shit Euros have said for decades now, about how they would do things better but refuse to do even the slightest of things. Yugoslavia was on their doorstep and did nothing.
Yeah well but here is the thing, there is no genocide happening in Iran, it’s a relatively stable country that one can argue is getting better. Nothing to do with Yugoslavia. And if we are going to bomb theocratic regimes that support terrorism, we should probably start with the Saudis. To whom we sell weapons and are our allies.
So let’s not pretend that there is any other reason to go to war there than the messianic madness of Trump’s adviser and some economic and geopolitical dubious interests. No one has sympathy for Iran. But not liking a country and a regime doesn’t give you the right to bomb or bully it.
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On June 23 2019 07:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2019 02:28 Sermokala wrote:
Really? He openly admits he doesn't agree with anything Iran does and admits its a terrorist state. His whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors to gain sympathy for a theocratic regime that might get better in 20-30 years. Then his post just devolves into "murica bad france good" as if France would do anything at all about Iran.
Its the same tired shit Euros have said for decades now, about how they would do things better but refuse to do even the slightest of things. Yugoslavia was on their doorstep and did nothing. Yeah well but here is the thing, there is no genocide happening in Iran, it’s a relatively stable country that one can argue is getting better. Nothing to do with Yugoslavia. And if we are going to bomb theocratic regimes that support terrorism, we should probably start with the Saudis. To whom we sell weapons and are our allies. So let’s not pretend that there is any other reason to go to war there than the messianic madness of Trump’s adviser and some economic and geopolitical dubious interests. No one has sympathy for Iran. But not liking a country and a regime doesn’t give you the right to bomb or bully it.
Jesus Christo. There is no genocide happening in Iran, there was no genocide happening in Serbia either. There are genocides going down in (or have gone down) in the area close enough to be a comparison to The breakup of Yugoslavia that both supported for it to be valid.
Your second paragraph is inane. Iran is just another nation that has done nothing wrong is doing nothing wrong and threatens no one yet America is such a bully that wants to go to war for shits and giggles.
My frustration with Euros is a lot like my frustration near the end of my relationship in high school. I understand, respect, and appreciate that you want to be independent and not submissive to me. But that means you have to be able to stand up to me without being worried that It threatens you need to make your own decisions and stand up for them without just being against me, and to do things without needed me to support you to succeed.
Europe could have signaled to the US that they were supporting Iran and to guarantee their sovereignty. It would have forced Trump to either break trade relations to all of the EU or to continue to abide by the Iran deal. If we went to war with Iran they would all stand by and let it happen with nothing more than token statements of disagrement.
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On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:
My frustration with Euros is a lot like my frustration near the end of my relationship in high school. I understand, respect, and appreciate that you want to be independent and not submissive to me. But that means you have to be able to stand up to me without being worried that It threatens you need to make your own decisions and stand up for them without just being against me, and to do things without needed me to support you to succeed.
What the fuck man. That is the most condescending shit I've ever read on this forum.
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On June 23 2019 11:10 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:
My frustration with Euros is a lot like my frustration near the end of my relationship in high school. I understand, respect, and appreciate that you want to be independent and not submissive to me. But that means you have to be able to stand up to me without being worried that It threatens you need to make your own decisions and stand up for them without just being against me, and to do things without needed me to support you to succeed.
What the fuck man. That is the most condescending shit I've ever read on this forum.
Nice to know how Sermo really thinks, and how little he actually knows.
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Sermo, since you had no intention of engaging with what Biff actually said, it's baffling and entirely self-defeating that you would create a strawman that frustrates you.
On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:
Your second paragraph is inane. Iran is just another nation that has done nothing wrong is doing nothing wrong and threatens no one yet America is such a bully that wants to go to war for shits and giggles.
He didn't say or suggest any of that. And as he pointed out right above, some of our allies check all the boxes that Iran does and there is no talk about going on a moral crusade against them, instead we actively help them.
As I and others have pointed out to you, the US has intentionally installed a theocratic regime in Iran before and totalitarian regimes in numerous other countries and it has funded terrorist organizations that oppose governments they don't like. Don't take this as a slight to the intentions of the US in particular, the Soviets have done it, the British has done it, and others to some extent.
As we have seen in Iraq, Syria, Egypt and others in recent memory, there is no guarantee whatsoever that overturning a totalitarian regime makes things better, especially when there is no organized secular opposition.
You cannot look at any of the information available to you and conclude that a war with Iran would be primarily about righting wrongs and fighting terrorism or that a war with Iran is particularly likely to result in anything but a net increase in suffering and a net increase in terrorism.
On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:
Europe could have signaled to the US that they were supporting Iran and to guarantee their sovereignty. It would have forced Trump to either break trade relations to all of the EU or to continue to abide by the Iran deal. If we went to war with Iran they would all stand by and let it happen with nothing more than token statements of disagrement.
Biff's post you responded with this included the sentence 'No one has sympathy for Iran.'
While virtually all European parties oppose a war with Iran because there is nothing in it for them and because it would be politically disastrous with Iraq still in the living memory of voters, do not mistake that for wishing to actively support Iran. This isn't a matter of 'either with us or against us'. We've established that foreign policy is dictated primarily by economic and geopolitical interest. There's nothing to gain and a lot to lose by starting a trade war/blackmail with an ally over disagreeing what to the best course of action is in Iran. It's that straightforward.
Presenting your take as the American side of things is bizarre in the first place, you are no doubt aware an overwhelming majority of your countrymen oppose military action against Iran.
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On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2019 07:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 23 2019 02:28 Sermokala wrote:
Really? He openly admits he doesn't agree with anything Iran does and admits its a terrorist state. His whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors to gain sympathy for a theocratic regime that might get better in 20-30 years. Then his post just devolves into "murica bad france good" as if France would do anything at all about Iran.
Its the same tired shit Euros have said for decades now, about how they would do things better but refuse to do even the slightest of things. Yugoslavia was on their doorstep and did nothing. Yeah well but here is the thing, there is no genocide happening in Iran, it’s a relatively stable country that one can argue is getting better. Nothing to do with Yugoslavia. And if we are going to bomb theocratic regimes that support terrorism, we should probably start with the Saudis. To whom we sell weapons and are our allies. So let’s not pretend that there is any other reason to go to war there than the messianic madness of Trump’s adviser and some economic and geopolitical dubious interests. No one has sympathy for Iran. But not liking a country and a regime doesn’t give you the right to bomb or bully it. Jesus Christo. There is no genocide happening in Iran, there was no genocide happening in Serbia either. There are genocides going down in (or have gone down) in the area close enough to be a comparison to The breakup of Yugoslavia that both supported for it to be valid. Your second paragraph is inane. Iran is just another nation that has done nothing wrong is doing nothing wrong and threatens no one yet America is such a bully that wants to go to war for shits and giggles. My frustration with Euros is a lot like my frustration near the end of my relationship in high school. I understand, respect, and appreciate that you want to be independent and not submissive to me. But that means you have to be able to stand up to me without being worried that It threatens you need to make your own decisions and stand up for them without just being against me, and to do things without needed me to support you to succeed. Europe could have signaled to the US that they were supporting Iran and to guarantee their sovereignty. It would have forced Trump to either break trade relations to all of the EU or to continue to abide by the Iran deal. If we went to war with Iran they would all stand by and let it happen with nothing more than token statements of disagrement.
No genocide happening in Serbia? Kosovo someone?
Yugoslavia was in a civil war, with massacres unseen in Europe since ww2 taking place every months, war crimes that would make Himmler proud and, yup, a genocide rolling in Kosovo. Iran is a country at peace, stable, doing what every country in the area does. Which is shitty, sure, but frankly in the average of the region.
There is nothing singular right now about Iran. Saudi Arabia is arguably a much, much, much worse regime and their involvement in actual terrorism is much deeper. And they are fucking slaughtering their neighbours right now. With our weapons.
So it’s not that we like, approve or want to encourage Iran. It’s that going to war is an extreme action, that makes insanely costly damages, is incredibly risky, and should be used where absolutely necessary and there is no other choices.
The Soviets have fucked Afghanistan for centuries with a retarded invasion in 1979, and America has fucked the middle east also for generations with that dumb ass war everyone in Europe told them not to do. Yup, Saddam was a baddy. The utter and absolute clusterfuck of devastation, death, instability and hatred Bush has created out of pure hubris instead is much, much worse. And you want to do the same shit with Iran because of a drone?
I don’t think America wants a war for shit and giggles. No one in the military wants a war. It’s just that Trump has surrounded himself with torturers, madmen (Bolton is batshit crazy) and relies on Faux News anchors to make decisions. Those people want a war because they are utterly incompetent, and get a hard-on at the idea of bombing the shit out of some muslims. That’s pretty much it.
lol at the relationship thing. I soooo wonder why it ended. Anyway. Europe is the second - and first in many case - most powerful potentate in the world, not your high school gf. And this time instead of creating memes because french people are such cowards and want to surrenders, renaming your fries « liberty fries » to show how retarded war frenzy makes you and so on and so forth, you should fucking listen, put your beloved weapons aside and think a little bit.
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On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2019 07:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 23 2019 02:28 Sermokala wrote:
Really? He openly admits he doesn't agree with anything Iran does and admits its a terrorist state. His whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors to gain sympathy for a theocratic regime that might get better in 20-30 years. Then his post just devolves into "murica bad france good" as if France would do anything at all about Iran.
Its the same tired shit Euros have said for decades now, about how they would do things better but refuse to do even the slightest of things. Yugoslavia was on their doorstep and did nothing. Yeah well but here is the thing, there is no genocide happening in Iran, it’s a relatively stable country that one can argue is getting better. Nothing to do with Yugoslavia. And if we are going to bomb theocratic regimes that support terrorism, we should probably start with the Saudis. To whom we sell weapons and are our allies. So let’s not pretend that there is any other reason to go to war there than the messianic madness of Trump’s adviser and some economic and geopolitical dubious interests. No one has sympathy for Iran. But not liking a country and a regime doesn’t give you the right to bomb or bully it. Jesus Christo. There is no genocide happening in Iran, there was no genocide happening in Serbia either. There are genocides going down in (or have gone down) in the area close enough to be a comparison to The breakup of Yugoslavia that both supported for it to be valid. Your second paragraph is inane. Iran is just another nation that has done nothing wrong is doing nothing wrong and threatens no one yet America is such a bully that wants to go to war for shits and giggles. My frustration with Euros is a lot like my frustration near the end of my relationship in high school. I understand, respect, and appreciate that you want to be independent and not submissive to me. But that means you have to be able to stand up to me without being worried that It threatens you need to make your own decisions and stand up for them without just being against me, and to do things without needed me to support you to succeed. Europe could have signaled to the US that they were supporting Iran and to guarantee their sovereignty. It would have forced Trump to either break trade relations to all of the EU or to continue to abide by the Iran deal. If we went to war with Iran they would all stand by and let it happen with nothing more than token statements of disagrement.
How did you not hit delete immediately after typing this embarrassment I do not know. Keep girl troubles to the blog section please. Also don't be such a creep about needing a girl being submissive to you. They are not your possessions. Like, what the actual fuck.
Also, you seem to be refusing to give a viable reason to goto war with Iran, preferring to talk about Europe vs USA, as if both are monolithic entities.
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On June 23 2019 16:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2019 10:48 Sermokala wrote:On June 23 2019 07:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 23 2019 02:28 Sermokala wrote:
Really? He openly admits he doesn't agree with anything Iran does and admits its a terrorist state. His whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors to gain sympathy for a theocratic regime that might get better in 20-30 years. Then his post just devolves into "murica bad france good" as if France would do anything at all about Iran.
Its the same tired shit Euros have said for decades now, about how they would do things better but refuse to do even the slightest of things. Yugoslavia was on their doorstep and did nothing. Yeah well but here is the thing, there is no genocide happening in Iran, it’s a relatively stable country that one can argue is getting better. Nothing to do with Yugoslavia. And if we are going to bomb theocratic regimes that support terrorism, we should probably start with the Saudis. To whom we sell weapons and are our allies. So let’s not pretend that there is any other reason to go to war there than the messianic madness of Trump’s adviser and some economic and geopolitical dubious interests. No one has sympathy for Iran. But not liking a country and a regime doesn’t give you the right to bomb or bully it. Jesus Christo. There is no genocide happening in Iran, there was no genocide happening in Serbia either. There are genocides going down in (or have gone down) in the area close enough to be a comparison to The breakup of Yugoslavia that both supported for it to be valid. Your second paragraph is inane. Iran is just another nation that has done nothing wrong is doing nothing wrong and threatens no one yet America is such a bully that wants to go to war for shits and giggles. My frustration with Euros is a lot like my frustration near the end of my relationship in high school. I understand, respect, and appreciate that you want to be independent and not submissive to me. But that means you have to be able to stand up to me without being worried that It threatens you need to make your own decisions and stand up for them without just being against me, and to do things without needed me to support you to succeed. Europe could have signaled to the US that they were supporting Iran and to guarantee their sovereignty. It would have forced Trump to either break trade relations to all of the EU or to continue to abide by the Iran deal. If we went to war with Iran they would all stand by and let it happen with nothing more than token statements of disagrement. How did you not hit delete immediately after typing this embarrassment I do not know. Keep girl troubles to the blog section please. Also don't be such a creep about needing a girl being submissive to you. They are not your possessions. Like, what the actual fuck. Also, you seem to be refusing to give a viable reason to goto war with Iran, preferring to talk about Europe vs USA, as if both are monolithic entities.
Never mind that the relationship between Europe and the US is very clearly, blatantly, and obviously parental.
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I know plenty of y’all already know this, but just so it’s clear, plenty of Americans do not share Sermo’s distorted views of Europe and international relations. Plenty do, of course, but those of us who don’t are doing our best to spread the word otherwise.
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Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished.
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On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448
Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ?
In any case proceedings would be so long that there is basically no chance she would be fired while in office (well, except if she is reelected) due to not being a citizen, which could probably be a first :D
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On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ?
Yep, that can and does happen.
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On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? In any case proceedings would be so long that there is basically no chance she would be fired while in office (well, except if she is reelected) due to not being a citizen, which could probably be a first :D
I doubt that a citizenship can be revoked, otherwise you might end up with people without any state they belong to, which is something that pretty much every law tries to avoid very hard, because it is pretty bad.
On June 24 2019 01:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? Yep, that can and does happen.
Really? And what does happen to those people? They probably had to reject their previous citizenship to gain US citizenship? What if the previous state doesn't want them back? Do they just end up having to live in international waters because no state allows them to enter? How does that work?
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On June 24 2019 01:58 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? In any case proceedings would be so long that there is basically no chance she would be fired while in office (well, except if she is reelected) due to not being a citizen, which could probably be a first :D I doubt that a citizenship can be revoked, otherwise you might end up with people without any state they belong to, which is something that pretty much every law tries to avoid very hard, because it is pretty bad. Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 01:57 farvacola wrote:On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? Yep, that can and does happen. Really? And what does happen to those people? They probably had to reject their previous citizenship to gain US citizenship? What if the previous state doesn't want them back? Do they just end up having to live in international waters because no state allows them to enter? How does that work?
She probably has another citizenship, like Somali. I don't think the US forces people to choose between theirs. On the contrary, it can sometimes be a big issue : children of foreign servicemen in NATO for example, or children born during a trip, sometimes end up with a US citizenship unknowingly, which means they are subjected to the IRS even on some revenues they earned as an adult dozens of years later. We often see requests for dozens of thousands of $ to people who were in the US a few days/weeks when they were born and were unaware. It's a pain to fix.
Apatrids (if the word exists in english ?) is indeed a big issue, which is why there was a debate here to strip ISIS terrorists of their citizenship if they were only french officially.
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On June 24 2019 02:06 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 01:58 Simberto wrote:On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? In any case proceedings would be so long that there is basically no chance she would be fired while in office (well, except if she is reelected) due to not being a citizen, which could probably be a first :D I doubt that a citizenship can be revoked, otherwise you might end up with people without any state they belong to, which is something that pretty much every law tries to avoid very hard, because it is pretty bad. On June 24 2019 01:57 farvacola wrote:On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? Yep, that can and does happen. Really? And what does happen to those people? They probably had to reject their previous citizenship to gain US citizenship? What if the previous state doesn't want them back? Do they just end up having to live in international waters because no state allows them to enter? How does that work? She probably has another citizenship, like Somali. I don't think the US forces people to choose between theirs. On the contrary, it can sometimes be a big issue : children of foreign servicemen in NATO for example, or children born during a trip, sometimes end up with a US citizenship unknowingly, which means they are subjected to the IRS even on some revenues they earned as an adult dozens of years later. We often see requests for dozens of thousands of $ to people who were in the US a few days/weeks when they were born and were unaware. It's a pain to fix. Apatrids (if the word exists in english ?) is indeed a big issue, which is why there was a debate here to strip ISIS terrorists of their citizenship if they were only french officially.
No, the US makes you reject other citizenship except for a few countries. In most cases to become a US citizen you MUST revoke your other status
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United States42292 Posts
On June 24 2019 02:35 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 02:06 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 01:58 Simberto wrote:On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? In any case proceedings would be so long that there is basically no chance she would be fired while in office (well, except if she is reelected) due to not being a citizen, which could probably be a first :D I doubt that a citizenship can be revoked, otherwise you might end up with people without any state they belong to, which is something that pretty much every law tries to avoid very hard, because it is pretty bad. On June 24 2019 01:57 farvacola wrote:On June 24 2019 01:54 Nouar wrote:On June 24 2019 00:16 Doodsmack wrote:Some conservative journalists have uncovered what appears to be proof that ilhan Omar entered into a fraudulent marriage in order to obtain citizenship. She lied under oath about it and divorced him after the goal was accomplished. https://twitter.com/realDSteinberg/status/1142645481643880448 Can a citizenship granted be rescinded if proven in court that it was obtained fraudulently ? Yep, that can and does happen. Really? And what does happen to those people? They probably had to reject their previous citizenship to gain US citizenship? What if the previous state doesn't want them back? Do they just end up having to live in international waters because no state allows them to enter? How does that work? She probably has another citizenship, like Somali. I don't think the US forces people to choose between theirs. On the contrary, it can sometimes be a big issue : children of foreign servicemen in NATO for example, or children born during a trip, sometimes end up with a US citizenship unknowingly, which means they are subjected to the IRS even on some revenues they earned as an adult dozens of years later. We often see requests for dozens of thousands of $ to people who were in the US a few days/weeks when they were born and were unaware. It's a pain to fix. Apatrids (if the word exists in english ?) is indeed a big issue, which is why there was a debate here to strip ISIS terrorists of their citizenship if they were only french officially. No, the US makes you reject other citizenship except for a few countries. In most cases to become a US citizen you MUST revoke your other status
This is not how it works. The US does not have formal dual citizenship status but very few places do have it. However the US, like most countries, offers informal dual citizenship. How that works is the US gov views you solely as a citizen of the US and the other country views you solely as their citizen. Neither recognizes the claim of the other. When I naturalize in a few weeks the US government will ask that I tell them that I have rejected British citizenship but the British government doesn't care what I tell the Americans.
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