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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On January 09 2019 11:14 Decado79 wrote: Wonderful speech. Absolutely love my president. Hopefully something gets done soon. Our borders have been insecure for far too long. nice first post! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Also it was filled with lies and bullshit. | ||
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farvacola
United States18835 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
EDIT2: in Donald's own words, the whole speech and the trip to the border are total wastes of time and he didn't/doesn't want to do them. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwb_3lcXQAE5zzs.jpg:large) But the COLLUSION story is off the charts explosive today! + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwb9Xx7W0AE_yHN.jpg:large) + Show Spoiler + Both Mr. Manafort and Rick Gates, the deputy campaign manager, transferred the data to Mr. Kilimnik in the spring of 2016 as Mr. Trump clinched the Republican presidential nomination, according to a person knowledgeable about the situation. Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person. Mr. Manafort asked Mr. Gates to tell Mr. Kilimnik to pass the data to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch who is close to the Kremlin and who has claimed that Mr. Manafort owed him money from a failed business venture, the person said. It is unclear whether Mr. Manafort was acting at the campaign’s behest or independently, trying to gain favor with someone to whom he was deeply in debt. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/politics/manafort-trump-campaign-data-kilimnik.html This isn't something Mueller is alleging. This was an error in redaction by Manafort's attorneys. This is all stuff that Manafort himself swore/admitted was true. This is on the nose COLLUSION. Manafort was passing internal campaign data and working deals with a Russian intelligence asset and directing the data and deals to be passed up the chain to an oligarch whom Manafort owed money. Yeah, the Agalarov summit was also collusion, but damn this is the big stuff. Derispaska isn't some nobody. Read onwards. This guy sits at the table with Putin and in his own words: Deripaska always knew the game he was playing, and at times he has been candid about it. “I don’t separate myself from the state,” he told the FT in 2007. “I have no other interests.” + Show Spoiler + Deripaska always knew the game he was playing, and at times he has been candid about it. “I don’t separate myself from the state,” he told the FT in 2007. “I have no other interests.” And indeed, while he did well by Putin, he has also been quite useful to him. Shortly after the Bush Administration revoked Deripaska’s visa in 2006, allegedly due to his ties to organized crime, he was granted a diplomatic passport by Russia, not just for his own business purposes, but also so that he could represent Russia in the international arena. A U.S. diplomatic cable sent in 2006 noted the dynamic: Deripaska was “among the two to three oligarchs Putin turns to on a regular basis” and “a more or less permanent fixture on Putin’s trips abroad.” The conversation unearthed by anti-corruption activist and opposition politician Alexei Navalny last year between Deripaska and Deputy Prime Minister Sergey Prikhodko, a top foreign policy advisor to Putin, suggests that Deripaska’s role as a kind of unofficial intermediary remains unchanged. https://www.the-american-interest.com/2018/05/30/the-great-oligarch-whitewash/ EDIT: more out and out COLLUSION: "If he needs private briefings we can accommodate," Manafort wrote in the July 7, 2016, email, portions of which were read to The Washington Post along with other Manafort correspondence from that time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manafort-offered-to-give-russian-billionaire-private-briefings-on-2016-campaign/2017/09/20/399bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html?utm_term=.506fa58583f0 | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On January 09 2019 12:03 Wulfey_LA wrote: The Donald speech was a complete waste of everyone's time. Nothing he said maps to reality. His sniffly ramblings about how the wall will makes things more secure are completely bogus. No one should care. But the COLLUSION story is off the charts explosive today! + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Both Mr. Manafort and Rick Gates, the deputy campaign manager, transferred the data to Mr. Kilimnik in the spring of 2016 as Mr. Trump clinched the Republican presidential nomination, according to a person knowledgeable about the situation. Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person. Mr. Manafort asked Mr. Gates to tell Mr. Kilimnik to pass the data to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch who is close to the Kremlin and who has claimed that Mr. Manafort owed him money from a failed business venture, the person said. It is unclear whether Mr. Manafort was acting at the campaign’s behest or independently, trying to gain favor with someone to whom he was deeply in debt. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/politics/manafort-trump-campaign-data-kilimnik.html This isn't something Mueller is alleging. This was an error in redaction by Manafort's attorneys. This is all stuff that Manafort himself swore/admitted was true. This is on the nose COLLUSION. Manafort was passing internal campaign data and working deals with a Russian intelligence asset and directing the data and deals to be passed up the chain to an oligarch whom Manafort owed money. Yeah, the Agalarov summit was also collusion, but damn this is the big stuff. Derispaska isn't some nobody. Read onwards. This guy sits at the table with Putin and in his own words: + Show Spoiler + Deripaska always knew the game he was playing, and at times he has been candid about it. “I don’t separate myself from the state,” he told the FT in 2007. “I have no other interests.” And indeed, while he did well by Putin, he has also been quite useful to him. Shortly after the Bush Administration revoked Deripaska’s visa in 2006, allegedly due to his ties to organized crime, he was granted a diplomatic passport by Russia, not just for his own business purposes, but also so that he could represent Russia in the international arena. A U.S. diplomatic cable sent in 2006 noted the dynamic: Deripaska was “among the two to three oligarchs Putin turns to on a regular basis” and “a more or less permanent fixture on Putin’s trips abroad.” The conversation unearthed by anti-corruption activist and opposition politician Alexei Navalny last year between Deripaska and Deputy Prime Minister Sergey Prikhodko, a top foreign policy advisor to Putin, suggests that Deripaska’s role as a kind of unofficial intermediary remains unchanged. https://www.the-american-interest.com/2018/05/30/the-great-oligarch-whitewash/ EDIT: more out and out COLLUSION: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manafort-offered-to-give-russian-billionaire-private-briefings-on-2016-campaign/2017/09/20/399bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html?utm_term=.506fa58583f0 It is actual hard evidence of collusion, though there is also the possibility that Manafort was acting on his own out of his own financial interests. He had a long and very close relationship with Deripaska. But there are emails showing that Manafort was explicitly offering to meet with Deripaska to discuss US-Russia policy. If nothing else this shows conclusively that the matter is worth investigating to the fullest extent possible. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Even if it was only Manafort, a responsible leader would realize they still need to step down if their campaign manager was found to be conspiring with the enemy against the American people to their benefit. The buck, ofc, never makes it to Trump so that wouldnt happen. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14042 Posts
I mean general obfuscating statistics that don't have any relation with each other and werid lies I can accept but the odd parts that he just doesn't even put effort into doesn't make any sense to me. I get how he didn't want to do it despite everyone telling him it was an obvious easy way to get public opinion on your side because hes an idiot that doesn't understand how people work but how him being on network television isn't enough to motivate him I don't get. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
A lot of the world purposely has blind spots when it comes to immigration. If Australia was actually serious about enforcing immigration security, we'd put a whole lot more money into preventing illegal immigration from the UK and New Zealand but we as a people don't give a shit because most of the time they speak good English and they're white and often protestant. Sound reductive but our Home Affairs Minister has pretty much admitted as much via statements and policy. On January 09 2019 15:04 Sermokala wrote: He at least twice breathed in through his nose so loudly that it was picked up on the mic, that and his inability to open his eyes is what baffles me the most about Trump. You have to actively try to do things like this wrong in order for it to happen There's people who have worked with Trump that say that he's an Adderall enthusiast. Who knows if that's true but it'd explain his totally chill demeanor when reading scripted speeches and why he's sniffing all the time when reading said speeches. He's not chill or sniffing when he's raving and ranting for a time period longer than what was organized. | ||
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oBlade
United States5758 Posts
On January 09 2019 14:31 JimmiC wrote: If the goal is to stop terrorists from crossing an ungaurded border when are they going to build the north wall? Its way less defended and terrorists can get into canada about as easy as Mexico based on what trump has said about us. Im 45 min drive or less to the border and I could easily walk accross in a lot of spots. It's less defended and simultaneously less of a problem. Your hypothetical would cost more (to the point of impracticality if you know how wide the northern border is) and provide less benefit than what's being talked about for the southern border. Just like seawalls for the Atlantic and Pacific would be impractical. But that fact doesn't rule out something less expensive (more limited) and more beneficial in a different case. Because the stated goals for the southern border are varied, it's not just what you said. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On January 09 2019 15:19 oBlade wrote: It's less defended and simultaneously less of a problem. Your hypothetical would cost more (to the point of impracticality if you know how wide the northern border is) and provide less benefit than what's being talked about for the southern border. Just like seawalls for the Atlantic and Pacific would be impractical. But that fact doesn't rule out something less expensive (more limited) and more beneficial in a different case. Because the stated goals for the southern border are varied, it's not just what you said. I like how you pretend a Northern wall is at the point of impracticality but a Southern wall is not. They're both completely impractical. Also, apparently more watch list "terrorists" have crossed your Northern border than the Southern one (by like a factor of 8), so there's that. Also expect the weed smuggling to pickup the pace. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
On January 09 2019 11:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: The opioid crisis is the real crisis. Dems should make a 5 billion dollar addiction assistance program to help those people. Then make Trump say no to that. Didn't you listen? The potus said heroin addicts are dying because of drugs coming in from Mexico. Has nothing to do with the US creating the greatest opium producer in history or lack of action against widespread prescription of opioids. It's. Because. There. Is. No. Wall. /s | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 09 2019 15:19 oBlade wrote: It's less defended and simultaneously less of a problem. Your hypothetical would cost more (to the point of impracticality if you know how wide the northern border is) and provide less benefit than what's being talked about for the southern border. Just like seawalls for the Atlantic and Pacific would be impractical. But that fact doesn't rule out something less expensive (more limited) and more beneficial in a different case. Because the stated goals for the southern border are varied, it's not just what you said. EDIT: For complete wrongness. This would indeed be a more expensive proposition. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
On January 09 2019 18:24 iamthedave wrote: I decided to google this rather than take your word for it after the 'we shut the airports down for 6 months after 9/11' deal. Turns out according to the US geological survey, the southern border is 500 miles longer than the northern one. Do you rely on people not fact checking things you say or are you just having a bad run? Not defending xdaunt, the wall, or any of the rest of conversation but I have no idea what you are saying here. The Canada-us boarder is about 5.5k miles long 4K if you don’t count Alaska. Mexico-us is just under 2k. This is what I got from googling which I did after your comment since I’m actually aware of how the map looks. I’m sure there’s ways to fudge numbers but ya acting like the southern border isn’t shorter is kind of humorous since you can just look at a map. | ||
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On January 09 2019 16:00 WolfintheSheep wrote: I like how you pretend a Northern wall is at the point of impracticality but a Southern wall is not. They're both completely impractical. Also, apparently more watch list "terrorists" have crossed your Northern border than the Southern one (by like a factor of 8), so there's that. Also expect the weed smuggling to pickup the pace. Also people smuggling operations are ignoring the Mexican border entirely and just going through Canada because its not militarized. And it isn't just Latin Americans, its people of all nationalities getting into America through the Canada/US border through undocumented means. And people don't care and notice it because the vast majority of immigrants and asylum seekers aren't there to start any trouble. They just want work and states like Vermont are more than willing to "accept" them because they're willing to do backbreaking work that most other Americans won't do like dairy production. Just like the southern border historically having a large influx of people fleeing Latin America for a safer life because of the war on drugs fucking everything up. | ||
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KwarK
United States43199 Posts
On January 09 2019 03:23 Plansix wrote: The existence and nature of the Brexit referendum comes to mind. The US does not allow a political party to stage some nation wide vote to leave NAFTA just to make a faction within their party happy. An idea that terrible cannot exist in the US system. There’s absolutely nothing stopping the US gov taking an advisory popular vote on the issue, which is all the Brexit vote was. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 09 2019 19:10 Atreides wrote: Not defending xdaunt, the wall, or any of the rest of conversation but I have no idea what you are saying here. The Canada-us boarder is about 5.5k miles long 4K if you don’t count Alaska. Mexico-us is just under 2k. This is what I got from googling which I did after your comment since I’m actually aware of how the map looks. I’m sure there’s ways to fudge numbers but ya acting like the southern border isn’t shorter is kind of humorous since you can just look at a map. I double checked the discrepancy; the initial thing I saw was only measuring the Canada/Alaska border, so yeah, my fuck up. Misread and am shamed, and accept suitable pointing and laughter. And I freely admit that geography is my worst knowledge skill so that particular part didn't really twig. I'm the guy John Oliver is fucking with when he does his usual 'that's not the country' gag. Though I do now wonder how much illegal stuff comes in through Canada, and how much could be diverted to come from that angle if the southern border wall actually worked, as womwomwom has suggested. If that did happen... wouldn't the next step in fact be to wall up the Canada border as well? | ||
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Slydie
1927 Posts
If that did happen... wouldn't the next step in fact be to wall up the Canada border as well? I can easily see a futurw situation where the Canadians want to decrease imigration FROM the us! If more considered it an option, planty of well educated Americans would have been much better off abroad... Braindrain ftw! | ||
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